jeffismagic Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 It's funny. I am SO anxious about 1 or all of the top QBs from this past draft panning out. I need them all to fail, spectacularly. Please, Lord. Trubisky, doesn't matter. He was gone. Deshaun Watson. Love his intangibles but his arm strength and accuracy issues should limit his upside. Mahomes. Yeah, he is the one that got away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 Trubisky, doesn't matter. He was gone. Deshaun Watson. Love his intangibles but his arm strength and accuracy issues should limit his upside. Mahomes. Yeah, he is the one that got away. IMO Trubisky and Kizer will be the best of the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 I just heard one of the "Oklahoma" QBs described as a fantastic college QB who may not translate to the NFL. I think it was Salisbury on PMT, fwiw. Is that Rudolph or the other guy? From being in the area I'm gathering that Rudolph is better. People here aren't that high on Mayfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 IMO Trubisky and Kizer will be the best of the group. I had first round grades on Mahomes and Trubisky. Did not like Kizer. Falls apart under pressure. Not what Buffalo needs more of. But he does have all the tools. And Cleveland got him for a relatively low cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 (edited) From being in the area I'm gathering that Rudolph is better. People here aren't that high on Mayfield. I don't like him. Weird delivery, air raid offense. But he checks off all the boxes for McDermott / Beane 'character' guy, which has me really worried. Edit: I know about his drunken running around. I mean a 4 year starter and 'football guy' Edited August 31, 2017 by WildCard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 I had first round grades on Mahomes and Trubisky. Did not like Kizer. Falls apart under pressure. Not what Buffalo needs more of. But he does have all the tools. And Cleveland got him for a relatively low cost. Mahomes seems to fall apart under pressure. The pocket buckles and he runs or rolls out immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 (edited) I think that's probably Baker Mayfield. Correct. Rudolph has size, big arm, works smoothly through his progressions and exhibits exceptional pocket awareness and escapability. He's accurate on deep throws but has a tendency to over stride on some shorter throws, which hurts his accuracy.... something to watch for tonight, to see if he shows some improvement in that area. Edited August 31, 2017 by pi2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 Mahomes seems to fall apart under pressure. The pocket buckles and he runs or rolls out immediately. And Kizer seems the exact opposite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 Mahomes seems to fall apart under pressure. The pocket buckles and he runs or rolls out immediately. He has great pocket presence. It's actually one of the main qualities I look for in a QB prospect. He has a great feel and only abandons the pocket if someone is free or crashing in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 I had first round grades on Mahomes and Trubisky. Did not like Kizer. Falls apart under pressure. Not what Buffalo needs more of. But he does have all the tools. And Cleveland got him for a relatively low cost. I'm not very high on Mahomes, seems like he panics too much under pressure, but he has some good tools. Kizer is far from polished, but I really like his demeanor... reminds me of Russel Wilson. He's confident but understands his limitations, seems to have that "it" factor IMO. That said, I don't think he should be starting this season, could set him back.... but CLE does have a very good OL, so we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 He has great pocket presence. It's actually one of the main qualities I look for in a QB prospect. He has a great feel and only abandons the pocket if someone is free or crashing in. I and others on here very much disagree with this. Can you provide some proof of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 I'm not very high on Mahomes, seems like he panics too much under pressure, but he has some good tools. Kizer is far from polished, but I really like his demeanor... reminds me of Russel Wilson. He's confident but understands his limitations, seems to have that "it" factor IMO. That said, I don't think he should be starting this season, could set him back.... but CLE does have a very good OL, so we'll see. What about the college games Kizer played in last year? He looked spooked and that was why he fell when many expected him to be a high first rounder. I and others on here very much disagree with this. Can you provide some proof of this? I can't find the spreadsheet but Mahomes was the best of the bunch on 3rd down last year. As for a better breakdown here is one. "Patrick Mahomes’ college tape, it’s easy to get caught up in the arm talent. He throws the ball all over the yard and he does it from all over the field. We all talk about his school yard style, and that’s where a lot of the Favre comparisons come from. We’ve all seen plays of Mahomes putting his insane arm talent on display. He escapes pressure, rolls out and flicks a ball 50 yards down field with minimal effort. You can find several plays of him creating big plays off scrambles. It's great that he can do that, and he’ll certainly use the talent to his advantage. But there's an attribute to Mahomes that people aren't talking enough about and is a very underrated part of his game: He has the potential to be lethal against pressure in the pocket in the NFL. He already shows the traits (although unrefined) needed to do that at the highest level. After watching his college tape the last seven months, I do believe his first inclination is try to win from the pocket first and scramble out of the play as a last resort. He has a good feel for when to bail and when to stay. I think he wants to deliver throws with the routes called and the circumstances at Texas Tech led him to have to be more creative most of the time. The structure of the pocket Mahomes will have in the NFL is significantly different than what he experienced in college. Texas Tech uses a unique pass protection scheme that you will never see in the NFL. They use wide splits and their tackles often open up early to the sideline as part of their pass set. It forced Mahomes to take odd angles and routes at times to escape pressure when his linemen got beat. Mahomes won’t be able to get away from pressure the exact same way in the NFL as he did in college. He’ll have to make more subtle adjustments to escape pressure in a tighter area. In my opinion the drastic adjustments he had to make in college have more to do with the protections and play calls than his desire just to run around and make plays outside of the pocket. Before looking to scramble, he looks to find a receiver on their original route." https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/7/27/16036160/mahomes-and-pocket-presence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 That breakdown is from a Chiefs website though. I'm just not convinced he's a pocket QB. Everything I've seen from him in the preseason so far is scramble first, instead of stepping up in the pocket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 That breakdown is from a Chiefs website though. I'm just not convinced he's a pocket QB. Everything I've seen from him in the preseason so far is scramble first, instead of stepping up in the pocket You have to scramble or shuffle when you lose protection. Texas Tech he had no oline. The Chiefs 2nd and 3rd string oline isn't that great either. You don't stand in the pocket when someone is running free or the pocket is collapsing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 (edited) I'm sorry but I do not care what Mahomes did last year in College. Aaron Murray was an SEC leader in passing yards. He had 4 seasons of 3k plus yards. He's an awful NFL QB, actually isn't even a backup anymore. The point is until I see NFL tape of Mahomes not scrambling out of the pocket at the first sign of pressure or after his first read is taken away then I will have more faith. Until them he's just a young QB prospect with some question marks. . Will Butcher won the Hobey Baker, that doesn't mean I think he can be Eric Karlsson. Edited August 31, 2017 by LGR4GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 I don't like him. Weird delivery, air raid offense. But he checks off all the boxes for McDermott / Beane 'character' guy, which has me really worried. We're going to get a faith-based QB, aren't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 We're going to get a faith-based QB, aren't we? :doh: I'm sorry but I do not care what Mahomes did last year in College. Aaron Murray was an SEC leader in passing yards. He had 4 seasons of 3k plus yards. He's an awful NFL QB, actually isn't even a backup anymore. The point is until I see NFL tape of Mahomes not scrambling out of the pocket at the first sign of pressure or after his first read is taken away then I will have more faith. Until them he's just a young QB prospect with some question marks. . Will Butcher won the Hobey Baker, that doesn't mean I think he can be Eric Karlsson. Numerous examples to the contrary. 7:30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 :doh: Numerous examples to the contrary. 7:30 So you didn't read what I said or you chose to ignore it? What Mahomes did in college no longer matters. He does not currently play in college. From the 2 preseason games I watched where he played, he seemed very shaky in the pocket. Could be just the first couple of games and being a rookie. Right now though he has some things to work on and I think the Bills have a very good shot at getting a better QB in 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 We're going to get a faith-based QB, aren't we? Don't think it's that. I think they're just going to fall in love with his 'football' attitude and experience. So you didn't read what I said or you chose to ignore it? What Mahomes did in college no longer matters. He does not currently play in college. From the 2 preseason games I watched where he played, he seemed very shaky in the pocket. Could be just the first couple of games and being a rookie. Right now though he has some things to work on and I think the Bills have a very good shot at getting a better QB in 2018. He's looked like a running QB first so far. Kizer and Trubinsky have not, and Watson has just been awful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 So you didn't read what I said or you chose to ignore it? What Mahomes did in college no longer matters. He does not currently play in college. From the 2 preseason games I watched where he played, he seemed very shaky in the pocket. Could be just the first couple of games and being a rookie. Right now though he has some things to work on and I think the Bills have a very good shot at getting a better QB in 2018. Wanting or hoping for a QB is not a plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 Watson was always going to be awful. QB's who get tons of yards running college, the majority have a hard time generating those yards in the pro's. We can't assume our guy will be the exception but assume he will be the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 Wanting or hoping for a QB is not a plan. Which is why we've put ourselves in the best position possible to ensure we get one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 Wanting or hoping for a QB is not a plan. Wasting 1st round picks on questionable QB's is not a plan. See EJ Manuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 Watson was always going to be awful. QB's who get tons of yards running college, the majority have a hard time generating those yards in the pro's. We can't assume our guy will be the exception but assume he will be the rule. Had no faith in him after watching the championship game. Just no accuracy but had amazing receivers who made up for it Wasting 1st round picks on questionable QB's is not a plan. See EJ Manuel. Or two first round QB's on one you fell in love with. See Goff / Mahomes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 Wasting 1st round picks on questionable QB's is not a plan. See EJ Manuel. I'll take Andy Reid's QB scouting over Sean McDermott's QB "evaluation" skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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