SwampD Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Easy to forget things that never happened Why is Pegula not given any credit for creating that defense, but all the blame for sabotaging it He wasn't the owner when it was created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 He wasn't the owner when it was created. And Brandon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 And Brandon? Brandon is the one most responsible for destroying it. He put his slum on the scale with Rex Ryan in order to make his marketing job easier which caused Schwartz to leave and the defense fell apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 I don't think Whaley was entirely terrible as a talent evaluator. Every GM will miss on some. I think he struggled with assigning value to players are sticking to it. Watkins was probably deserving of being the #1 rated WR in his draft class. But, everyone knew that was the deeepest WR class in years. So, giving up a first round picks to move up a few spots made no sense from a value standpoint. Dareus and Glenn and Hughes are good players. But, that doesn't mean you back up the Brinx truck to pay them elite NFL money. IMHO, Whaley needed a better handle of how much each player was/is worth... and a better ability to walk away from his mistakes (see EJ Manuel). If you assume the draft is a crapshoot and free agents don't really want to come to Buffalo (given many factors), then the best way to get better is to have a lot of draft picks. Whaley gave away picks. Bean is stockpiling them. I like the latter strategy much better. Good post. Let's have a whirl with someone whose skill set features asset management and roster structuring. I remember hearing Whaley interviewed about Watkins. He was clearly so geeked just remembering the experience. He talked about how his contingent had the entire day set aside, or something, but how they saw him live for some much smaller amount of time, and saw him do certain things (he mentioned something about a level of body control at top speed) and they were just like "hohoho! whoa! yep, okay, that's it, this is the guy." So, a good eye for talent. But completely daft on assessing that talent's value relative to other available talent and to the many other needs on the roster. I agreed he failed as a GM. I also agree he had a top resume. So why should we consider someone with even less credentials an upgrade? And let's not forget how the Pegulas and Brandon sabatoged the top 5 defense Whaley had created. How about someone with different credentials? I'm honestly unclear on what the other comment means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Good post. Let's have a whirl with someone whose skill set features asset management and roster structuring. I remember hearing Whaley interviewed about Watkins. He was clearly so geeked just remembering the experience. He talked about how his contingent had the entire day set aside, or something, but how they saw him live for some much smaller amount of time, and saw him do certain things (he mentioned something about a level of body control at top speed) and they were just like "hohoho! whoa! yep, okay, that's it, this is the guy." So, a good eye for talent. But completely daft on assessing that talent's value relative to other available talent and to the many other needs on the roster. How about someone with different credentials? I'm honestly unclear on what the other comment means. I don't consider being friends with Sean the Wrestler a great credential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 I don't consider being friends with Sean the Wrestler a great credential. Same. I consider it to be the greatest credential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) I don't consider being friends with Sean the Wrestler a great credential. Weak sauce. I'll add: Without even looking, I'm confident that Beane has substantial experience and legitimate credentials in matters relating to the management of talent/assets and the structuring of a roster under current CBA limitations. He's much more of a business guy than a football guy. The ownership wanted cohesiveness as much or more than anything. So it made perfect sense to have the de facto head of the football operations find someone with whom he knew he could work. So, enter Beane. Now. Did the Pegulas put their money on the right horse(s)? Is the faith-based McDermott the savior the franchise needs? I have no idea. And I sure have my doubts. But let's be fair, honest, and accurate with who and what these folks are. Edited August 30, 2017 by That Aud Smell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 I've got to give Russ Brandon credit. He really has the fans still eating out of his hand. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 I've got to give Russ Brandon credit. He really has the fans still eating out of his hand. Well done. Take your garbage back to TBD, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Take your garbage back to TBD, man. If you can't discuss football or deal with disagreement why are you on a message board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 If you can't discuss football or deal with disagreement why are you on a message board? I'm recruiting him to be my next GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) If you can't discuss football or deal with disagreement why are you on a message board? That isn't disagreement, that's staring down your nose, holier than thou garbage that belittles very respectable posters and adds nothing of value to the conversation. Your posts are infused with it and make this place read like two bills drive. It is something that we come here to avoid. It is garbage. Anyone who has read anything I've posted here knows that I have no problems with disagreements. Edited August 30, 2017 by Randall Flagg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) That isn't disagreement, that's staring down your nose, holier than thou garbage that belittles very respectable posters and adds nothing of value to the conversation. Your posts are infused with it and make this place read like two bills drive. It is something that we come here to avoid. It is garbage. Anyone who has read anything I've posted here knows that I have no problems with disagreements. Exactly why this thread exists. To have a non-TBD style discussion about the Bills. Edited August 30, 2017 by Eleven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 I've got to give Russ Brandon credit. He really has the fans still eating out of his hand. Well done. The who now? Dude. If you knew anything about my content here, you'd know that I am no fan of Brandon. In fact, I harbor borderline irrational distrust (mistrust?) and even hatred for the man. I've posted pictures likening him to Wormtongue from the LOTR movies. Which is to say: Coming back at me with that is just more weak sauce. It's a shame, really. Much of what you say seems insightful and well reasoned. But then you undermine the credibility you earn by throwing out misinformation and insults. That sort of stuff makes me question the validity and credibility of the other (apparently solid) stuff you post. That isn't disagreement, that's staring down your nose, holier than thou garbage that belittles very respectable posters and adds nothing of value to the conversation. Your posts are infused with it and make this place read like two bills drive. It is something that we come here to avoid. It is garbage. Anyone who has read anything I've posted here knows that I have no problems with disagreements. That's about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Everybody loved Whaley's picks and aggressive moves in the draft and trades and whatnot... was a fresh of breath air from the previous regime. That didn't work out, so it goes back the other direction with a conservative GM who likes safe picks instead of rolling the dice and a disciplinarian for a head coach... 3 years from now they'll be gone and we'll be lauding the aggressive GM and loosey goosey players coach. The lesson here is that just because it's different doesn't mean it's better. Let's see where this new leadership group takes the team before anointing them the next Polian/Levy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Everybody loved Whaley's picks and aggressive moves in the draft and trades and whatnot... was a fresh of breath air from the previous regime. That didn't work out, so it goes back the other direction with a conservative GM who likes safe picks instead of rolling the dice and a disciplinarian for a head coach... 3 years from now they'll be gone and we'll be lauding the aggressive GM and loosey goosey players coach. The lesson here is that just because it's different doesn't mean it's better. Let's see where this new leadership group takes the team before anointing them the next Polian/Levy. I'm sorry what? No. No everyone did not. Whaley was a piss poor asset manager and fell in love with every Clemson player who he met. Mock draft for 2018 http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/list/nfl-mock-draft-2018-projections-picks-jets-49ers-bears-bills/1815xvlshjpj11bq68eonxmmit/slide/6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 I'm sorry what? No. No everyone did not. Whaley was a piss poor asset manager and fell in love with every Clemson player who he met. Mock draft for 2018 http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/list/nfl-mock-draft-2018-projections-picks-jets-49ers-bears-bills/1815xvlshjpj11bq68eonxmmit/slide/6 I always think mock drafts are too light on QBs - this one included. Teams will reach for QBs - every year it seems. That said, I found it intriguing that they mocked a top-end WR to the Bills and an under the radar QB later in rd. 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 The who now? Dude. If you knew anything about my content here, you'd know that I am no fan of Brandon. In fact, I harbor borderline irrational distrust (mistrust?) and even hatred for the man. I've posted pictures likening him to Wormtongue from the LOTR movies. Which is to say: Coming back at me with that is just more weak sauce. It's a shame, really. Much of what you say seems insightful and well reasoned. But then you undermine the credibility you earn by throwing out misinformation and insults. That sort of stuff makes me question the validity and credibility of the other (apparently solid) stuff you post. That's about right. Where did I call you a fan of Brandon? My post was about how Brandon has got the fanbase to buy in again. Not only that but now these guys are supposed to get two to three free years where wins or losses are not counted. It's brilliant for business. Keep costs down and count on fans to support it as you make vague promises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Where did I call you a fan of Brandon? My post was about how Brandon has got the fanbase to buy in again. Not only that but now these guys are supposed to get two to three free years where wins or losses are not counted. It's brilliant for business. Keep costs down and count on fans to support it as you make vague promises. We had this exchange. Good post. Let's have a whirl with someone whose skill set features asset management and roster structuring. .... How about someone with different credentials? I don't consider being friends with Sean the Wrestler a great credential. Weak sauce. I'll add: Without even looking, I'm confident that Beane has substantial experience and legitimate credentials in matters relating to the management of talent/assets and the structuring of a roster under current CBA limitations. He's much more of a business guy than a football guy. The ownership wanted cohesiveness as much or more than anything. So it made perfect sense to have the de facto head of the football operations find someone with whom he knew he could work. So, enter Beane. Now. Did the Pegulas put their money on the right horse(s)? Is the faith-based McDermott the savior the franchise needs? I have no idea. And I sure have my doubts. But let's be fair, honest, and accurate with who and what these folks are. I've got to give Russ Brandon credit. He really has the fans still eating out of his hand. Well done. If you're now saying that you weren't talking to/at me with the "fans eating out of his hand" comment and in response to what I'd been saying, then -- whatever. I am all for vigorous message board debate, so long as people are debating in good faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 We had this exchange. If you're now saying that you weren't talking to/at me with the "fans eating out of his hand" comment and in response to what I'd been saying, then -- whatever. I am all for vigorous message board debate, so long as people are debating in good faith. That's what I am saying. Sorry, been on the road so I have been posting from my phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 That's what I am saying. Sorry, been on the road so I have been posting from my phone. Fair enough. The phone does complicate the logistics of posting. I'm at a PC today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 I always think mock drafts are too light on QBs - this one included. Teams will reach for QBs - every year it seems. That said, I found it intriguing that they mocked a top-end WR to the Bills and an under the radar QB later in rd. 1. If the Bills did go that route, they are truly idiots. They shouldn't screw around and get a QB with raw talent and potential. They should get a QB with talent and a good degree of refinement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Fair enough. The phone does complicate the logistics of posting. I'm at a PC today. I posted that when I was standing in line at a Starbucks. So I get why it looked like that. But I do know you don't like Brandon so we're good and in agreement there. If the Bills did go that route, they are truly idiots. They shouldn't screw around and get a QB with raw talent and potential. They should get a QB with talent and a good degree of refinement. The Bills have NEVER used their initial pick on a QB. Kelly was taken after the Bills had selected a tight end. Manuel was a trade down acquiring an extra pick. Losman was taken after Evans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 If the Bills did go that route, they are truly idiots. They shouldn't screw around and get a QB with raw talent and potential. They should get a QB with talent and a good degree of refinement. Rosen the Chosen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) Rosen the Chosen If they somehow landed the Rosen One they better fire Castillo and Dennison and get some real coaches in here. Otherwise, he will turn into a Cutler. Edited August 30, 2017 by jeffismagic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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