WildCard Posted August 22, 2017 Author Report Posted August 22, 2017 I think I have already outlined "the process" that got us to McDermott and Beane which was awful. What are the chances that a bottom feeding team like the Bills who don't conduct a real coach or GM search and look clueless in decision after decision suddenly figure it all out? The odds are against him. I am fine with moving on from Whaley. Although I do admit he was not allowed to do his job and the Pegulas and Russ Brandon really put him in a bind with the Rex hiring. Fine, it's the exact opposite process as the Sabres, but with the same final result. Who cares if the end is the same? Whaley was an idiot not for his coaches but for his cap management.
tom webster Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 There is no magic formula. It's really hard to draft a QB if they are not John Elway or Peyton Manning and project them from college to the NFL. Which is why it is very important to give yourself a fighting chance by employing the best of the best at the GM and coaching positions to maximize your chance of success in identifying, drafting, and developing a QB. You obviously do not know much about Mahomes as a prospect if you wrote that line. The only part that is true is the snaps from center. Guess what, if the Bills want to find a QB they need to stop employing dinosaur methods and scouts and start studying the actual complete talent pool where college prospects come from. Most of the college QB's play in spread systems. While the Bills are looking for safe picks that took snaps under center with limited talent like Peterman the best NFL teams are adapting THEIR playbooks to make the transition for these college QB's easier. Andy Reid employed many Air Raid plays as did NE Patriots. No surprise they see things differently than the backward thinkers in Buffalo. Better than Beane's short GM career will go. You just don't get. Inserting a few plays and adapting your system doesn't change the fact that spread quarterbacks do not do the things in college that they will have to do in the NFL. Doesn't mean they can't do it, just means no one knows. I'm still waiting for you to list these great front offices that are able to find a QB whenever they need one.
jeffismagic Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) You just don't get. Inserting a few plays and adapting your system doesn't change the fact that spread quarterbacks do not do the things in college that they will have to do in the NFL. Doesn't mean they can't do it, just means no one knows. I'm still waiting for you to list these great front offices that are able to find a QB whenever they need one. You are completely mistaking my position again. Drafting QB's is hard. That's why you want to have a great front office and coaching staff in place to maximize your ability to find the next franchise QB. Oakland hired Reggie McKenzie from the Green Bay tree. Soon they had Derek Carr. Seattle hired John Schneider from the Green Bay tree. Soon they had Russell Wilson. Having a great GM is no guarantee but it sure beats the alternative that the Bills are trying. Defensive, play not to lose first-time head coach given enormous power over the roster as if he was a conquering Superbowl winning hero. Edited August 22, 2017 by jeffismagic
WildCard Posted August 22, 2017 Author Report Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) You are completely mistaking my position again. Drafting QB's is hard. That's why you want to have a great front office and coaching staff in place to maximize your ability to find the next franchise QB. Oakland hired Reggie McKenzie from the Green Bay tree. Soon they had Derek Carr. Seattle hired John Schneider from the Green Bay tree. Soon they had Russell Wilson. Having a great GM is no guarantee but it sure beats the alternative that the Bills are trying. Defensive, play not to lose first-time head coach given enormous power over the roster as if he was a conquering Superbowl winning hero. But Gruden liked Manziel over Carr And John Scneider signed Matt Flynn to a massive contract You do realize Beane made all of those trades on his own? He didn't even tell McDermott until after they were done Edited August 22, 2017 by WildCard
jeffismagic Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) But Gruden liked Manziel over Carr And John Scneider signed Matt Flynn to a massive contract You do realize Beane made all of those trades on his own? He didn't even tell McDermott until after they were done You do realize that Ozzie Newsome, a Hall of Fame GM, used a first round pick on Kyle Boller? Matt Flynn's massive deal was $10 million guaranteed. Whoopty-Freakin Doo. He brought him in for security and then swung for the fences on the 5 foot 11 Russell Wilson. Wake me up when Brandon Beane ever drafts a player of his caliber. No, he did not make the trades on his own. He had talked to McD beforehand and then worked on the mechanics or numbers before final confirmation. Edited August 22, 2017 by jeffismagic
Brawndo Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 Rumors about McCoy on the trading block have been circulating. Pat Moran is in South Florida and the talk down there is interest from the Bucs is high. IBN Bob had this ( his track record is above average) #Bills source on #IBN hotline after seeing my tweets "McCoy being shopped, multiple AFC West/NFC East teams involved" #Shady @CutonDime25 And Wawrow had this It would take a significant offer for #Bills to consider parting ways with LeSean McCoy. A really big significant offer.
WildCard Posted August 22, 2017 Author Report Posted August 22, 2017 You do realize that Ozzie Newsome, a Hall of Fame GM, used a first round pick on Kyle Boller? Matt Flynn's massive deal was $10 million guaranteed. Whoopty-Freakin Doo. He brought him in for security and then swung for the fences on the 5 foot 11 Russell Wilson. Wake me up when Brandon Beane ever drafts a player of his caliber. No, he did make the trades on his own. He had talked to McD beforehand and then worked on the mechanics or numbers before final confirmation. Your whole argument is absurd. You on HoF scouts / GMs that still make mistakes: 'We need to get one of them. The Bills are morons and jokes for not choosing one of them' You on a guy with a ton of experience in this league that you know nothing about: 'What a moron this guy is. Can't believe he's our GM' So you're upset some magical HoF GM wasn't just floating out there for you to grab, and won't even give Beane a chance. I can't wake you up when Beane drafts a player of his caliber, cause the guy just got the job. There were so many teams and GM's you've spouted about that all passed on ol' Russel Wilson. But the moment I bring up the one mistake Schneider had, or that your 1/5 sources for your Mahomes obsession touted Manzeil > Carr, you don't even respond to it. And yes, Beane made the trade and told McDermott afterwards. After the game he started Watkins and Darby in https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/8/16/16143096/brandon-beane-sammy-watkins-sean-mcdermott-trade-los-angeles-rams Rumors about McCoy on the trading block have been circulating. Pat Moran is in South Florida and the talk down there is interest from the Bucs is high. IBN Bob had this ( his track record is above average) #Bills source on #IBN hotline after seeing my tweets "McCoy being shopped, multiple AFC West/NFC East teams involved" #Shady @CutonDime25 And Wawrow had this It would take a significant offer for #Bills to consider parting ways with LeSean McCoy. A really big significant offer. God I would be so happy if we traded McCoy to Tampa. They'd overpay for a 1st. Plus it would help my fantasy a ton. Might as well give the Redskins a call on McCoy if we're shopping him. Their running game is awful
jeffismagic Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 Your whole argument is absurd. You on HoF scouts / GMs that still make mistakes: 'We need to get one of them. The Bills are morons and jokes for not choosing one of them' You on a guy with a ton of experience in this league that you know nothing about: 'What a moron this guy is. Can't believe he's our GM' So you're upset some magical HoF GM wasn't just floating out there for you to grab, and won't even give Beane a chance. I can't wake you up when Beane drafts a player of his caliber, cause the guy just got the ###### job. There were so many teams and GM's you've spouted about that all passed on ol' Russel Wilson. But the moment I bring up the one mistake Schneider had, or that your 1/5 sources for your Mahomes obsession touted Manzeil > Carr, you don't even respond to it. And yes, Beane made the trade and told McDermott afterwards. After the game he started Watkins and Darby in https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/8/16/16143096/brandon-beane-sammy-watkins-sean-mcdermott-trade-los-angeles-rams There is another article that indicates McDermott and Beane had already worked together on trading Sammy. Then Beane did his admin stuff and brought the deal to McDermott for approval. Q: What was your guy reaction last night when Brandon [beane] said he took these trades to you http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/08/what_brandon_beane_sean_mcdermott_said_about_bills_trading_sammy_watkins_ronald.html The Wrestler needed to rubber stamp Beane's paperwork.
WildCard Posted August 22, 2017 Author Report Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) There is another article that indicates McDermott and Beane had already worked together on trading Sammy. Then Beane did his admin stuff and brought the deal to McDermott for approval. Q: What was your guy reaction last night when Brandon [beane] said he took these trades to you http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/08/what_brandon_beane_sean_mcdermott_said_about_bills_trading_sammy_watkins_ronald.html The Wrestler needed to rubber stamp Beane's paperwork. This is just a lie He told him after the game, which I'm not disputing. The game in which he started Watkins and had the 1st 4 plays designed to go to him. Beane went out and made a deal with the Rams and Eagles, and told Beane of it after the game. He then went and hammered out the details Nowhere in that article does it indicate the bold you wrote, at all. Edited August 22, 2017 by WildCard
That Aud Smell Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 I'm encouraged by the talk of trading McCoy.
jeffismagic Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 This is just a lie He told him after the game, which I'm not disputing. The game in which he started Watkins and had the 1st 4 plays designed to go to him. Beane went out and made a deal with the Rams and Eagles, and told Beane of it after the game. He then went and hammered out the details Nowhere in that article does it indicate the bold you wrote, at all. You really are making this Beane guy bigger than he is. Regardless of what you think, the article you posted stated that McD and Beane had been in long discussions on Watkins. The trading of Watkins began when his 5th year option was not picked up. Beane wasn't even here yet.
That Aud Smell Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 This is just a lie He told him after the game, which I'm not disputing. The game in which he started Watkins and had the 1st 4 plays designed to go to him. Beane went out and made a deal with the Rams and Eagles, and told Beane of it after the game. He then went and hammered out the details Nowhere in that article does it indicate the bold you wrote, at all. When a poster has good stuff to contribute, he/she should never let a desire to have all facts fit a narrative dilute or detract from the solid stuff that is being offered.
WildCard Posted August 22, 2017 Author Report Posted August 22, 2017 You really are making this Beane guy bigger than he is. Regardless of what you think, the article you posted stated that McD and Beane had been in long discussions on Watkins. The trading of Watkins began when his 5th year option was not picked up. Beane wasn't even here yet. You're argument is that McDermott had the final say on this. My argument is they discussed hypothetical deals like they do everyone on the roster that might be a FA next year or might not fit, but Beane ultimately made the deal without McDermott knowing; this is exactly what both articles say I'm making Beane out to be bigger than he is? How? You're the one posting that McDermott is apparently holding a dictatorship of TBD When a poster has good stuff to contribute, he/she should never let a desire to have all facts fit a narrative dilute or detract from the solid stuff that is being offered. You lost me
jeffismagic Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 You're argument is that McDermott had the final say on this. My argument is they discussed hypothetical deals like they do everyone on the roster that might be a FA next year or might not fit, but Beane ultimately made the deal without McDermott knowing; this is exactly what both articles say I'm making Beane out to be bigger than he is? How? You're the one posting that McDermott is apparently holding a dictatorship of TBD You lost me "Whaley's virtual disappearance from public view after McDermott's arrival wasn't a coincidence. It was a fulfillment of a condition of McDermott's employment. In what could only be perceived as an effort to preserve Whaley's dignity and help his chances of getting another job, Pegula tried shooting down any notion that McDermott was in charge of the draft( :sick: ), noting it was Whaley who "put the whole thing together." Technically, yes, the assembling of names and grades was done by Whaley and his staff, because that happened through the NFL season while McDermott was serving as defensive coordinator for the Carolina Panthers. Once McDermott arrived in Buffalo, however, he combed through the data while doing his own intensive study of video and additional research. He shaped the Bills' draft plan, with a need-based approach and the pursuit of additional picks for this year and in 2018 and starkly different than the way Whaley had done things in previous drafts. That was why there was zero point in having Whaley offer any public thoughts about a draft that ultimately belonged to the coach." http://buffalonews.com/2017/05/01/vic-caruccis-bills-wake-call-new-gm-wont-change-structure/ When the Bills were looking to hire a GM they were not going to hire anyone that took the power McDermott had already exercised away. Beane was brought in to be the Whaley for the next draft. Preparing the board for the Wrestler.
WildCard Posted August 22, 2017 Author Report Posted August 22, 2017 "Whaley's virtual disappearance from public view after McDermott's arrival wasn't a coincidence. It was a fulfillment of a condition of McDermott's employment. In what could only be perceived as an effort to preserve Whaley's dignity and help his chances of getting another job, Pegula tried shooting down any notion that McDermott was in charge of the draft( :sick: ), noting it was Whaley who "put the whole thing together." Technically, yes, the assembling of names and grades was done by Whaley and his staff, because that happened through the NFL season while McDermott was serving as defensive coordinator for the Carolina Panthers. Once McDermott arrived in Buffalo, however, he combed through the data while doing his own intensive study of video and additional research. He shaped the Bills' draft plan, with a need-based approach and the pursuit of additional picks for this year and in 2018 and starkly different than the way Whaley had done things in previous drafts. That was why there was zero point in having Whaley offer any public thoughts about a draft that ultimately belonged to the coach." http://buffalonews.com/2017/05/01/vic-caruccis-bills-wake-call-new-gm-wont-change-structure/ When the Bills were looking to hire a GM they were not going to hire anyone that took the power McDermott had already exercised away. Beane was brought in to be the Whaley for the next draft. Preparing the board for the Wrestler. Or, you know, McDermott was doing all that work because Whaley was being fired. Why would he consult him for that stuff That would go right in line with Beane making the decisions on the trade and not telling McDermott about it.
jeffismagic Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 Or, you know, McDermott was doing all that work because Whaley was being fired. Why would he consult him for that stuff That would go right in line with Beane making the decisions on the trade and not telling McDermott about it. You are reading that passage the way you want to. Sorry, Beane is just a admin.
That Aud Smell Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 You lost me It wasn't directed to you.
WildCard Posted August 22, 2017 Author Report Posted August 22, 2017 You are reading that passage the way you want to. Sorry, Beane is just a admin. No, I'm not. “Interestingly, Beane didn’t tell McDermott about his tentative deal with the Rams before their game against Minnesota,” Peter King wrote after discussing the deal with Beane. “Imagine the Rams’ shock when, on the first four plays of the game on offense for Buffalo, Tyrod Taylor threw to Watkins. Beane wanted McDermott, in his first game as coach, not to be shackled but rather to be able to use his 90 players the way he saw fit. They didn’t discuss the chance for the trade until after the game. Undoubtedly, the two Bills decision makers have had plenty of discussions this summer surrounding the possibility of trading Watkins. So, sure, McDermott didn’t know the timing of when a deal would go down, but he certainly must of have known that it could happen at some point, and perhaps game planned accordingly. To be clear, general managers across all sports hold things back from their respective head coaches all the time — it would be a gross conflict of interest for a GM to prep his head coach of potential transactions each and every time before they were executed. But Beane had to be grinning from ear to ear upon seeing McDermott execute a game plan that perfectly aligned with his plans for Watkins without having even told the head coach about his intentions. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/8/16/16143096/brandon-beane-sammy-watkins-sean-mcdermott-trade-los-angeles-rams You have an unsubstantiated narrative against a GM and a coach simply because they are first time GM and HC and are completely unwilling or unable to even give them a chance or view any move they make as anything but horrendous and clouded in conspiracy due to the completely unrelated fact that they are employed by the Bills. It makes no sense to me. Maybe they both suck, who knows. But to completely condemn them before their first season even starts is just insane to me
That Aud Smell Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 That quote above about how McDermott came into the situation only confirms for me that I would not have wanted the team to choose a QB until such time as they had their team assembled and had done their own due diligence. You have an unsubstantiated narrative against a GM and a coach ... But to completely condemn them before their first season even starts is just insane to me This is what I was speaking to. jeff has good content to offer. But I feel like I have to sift through unnecessary conjecture and narrative buttressing to get it.
WildCard Posted August 22, 2017 Author Report Posted August 22, 2017 This is what I was speaking to. jeff has good content to offer. But I feel like I have to sift through unnecessary conjecture and narrative buttressing to get it. Agreed. Good stuff, it's just so tiresome arguing against crusades like this. Did it so many times with other posters on here it just gets annoying
JujuFish Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 Alex Smith is far better than Tyrod. He can complete basic NFL passes. Sure, if they're within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage.
Wyldnwoody44 Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 Can I get in on this pissing contest? Actually, the view is much more fun, drunk on the sidelines
ubkev Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 Can I get in on this pissing contest? Actually, the view is much more fun, drunk on the sidelines I just wish I had something to add. I watched zero NFL football last year and only a little bit of college ball. I'll try to do better on college this year.
Iron Crotch Posted August 23, 2017 Report Posted August 23, 2017 http://www.theonion.com/article/diehard-8-year-old-buffalo-bills-fan-showing-early-56727 :)
tom webster Posted August 23, 2017 Report Posted August 23, 2017 You are completely mistaking my position again. Drafting QB's is hard. That's why you want to have a great front office and coaching staff in place to maximize your ability to find the next franchise QB. Oakland hired Reggie McKenzie from the Green Bay tree. Soon they had Derek Carr. Seattle hired John Schneider from the Green Bay tree. Soon they had Russell Wilson. Having a great GM is no guarantee but it sure beats the alternative that the Bills are trying. Defensive, play not to lose first-time head coach given enormous power over the roster as if he was a conquering Superbowl winning hero. Jury still out on Derek Carr. Schneider fell into Wilson only after giving Flynn crazy contract in free agency. If anyone should have known better it was him. Want to try again(That hammer to head is your hint) there are none. Lucking into a great QB makes the GN, not the other way around.
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