Eleven Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 Agree. Pegula and his love affair for Sean the Wrestler reminds me of the Lafontaine meeting where he gave Pat a job that Lafontaine told Pegula he was not qualified for. Do you happen to live in Pennsylvania by any chance?
LGR4GM Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 Source http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/10538845/pat-lafontaine-resigns-buffalo-sabres-president-hockey-operations Pegula created the position of president of hockey operations to hire LaFontaine. And Pegula did so only after LaFontaine declined a chance to become the GM by saying he didn't think he had enough experience for that job.
That Aud Smell Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 GoDD was free with the inference and speculation, but more careful with reported facts.
WildCard Posted August 22, 2017 Author Report Posted August 22, 2017 http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/10538845/pat-lafontaine-resigns-buffalo-sabres-president-hockey-operations Fair enough. So this time around he hired Bean and Botterill, guys with ton of experience.
jeffismagic Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 "Remarkably, Terry Pegula, after having met Pat LaFontaine just twice, offered him the Sabres’ general manager job during a dinner with the former Sabres player. Keep in mind, LaFontaine had never been a general manager. LaFontaine turned it down pointing out that he didn’t have the skills for that job. Here are Pegula’s own words about his LaFontaine courtship: “One thing led to another and it was like, ‘Wow, this guy is pretty impressive,’ so I guess I popped the question,” Pegula said. “I asked him if he thought he could be a GM. He said, ‘No, but here’s what I think I can do.’ ” What kind of hiring and firing process is this? It’s one that seems spastic and inconsistent. This unorthodox and unrigorous process has resulted in at least one bad outcome: a newly hired President of Hockey Operations who resigned after just a few months on the job, leaving the Sabres with yet another public relations nightmare." https://www.buffalorising.com/2014/03/the-pegula-process-why-sabres-fans-should-be-worried/ Trust the Process!!!!! Fair enough. So this time around he hired Bean and Botterill, guys with ton of experience. Please do not put Beane and Botterill in the same sentence. The Sabres conducted a real GM search where they brought the top candidates in and hired someone with a remarkable resume.
WildCard Posted August 22, 2017 Author Report Posted August 22, 2017 Thanks for the source. Bean and Botterill are about as different as you could possibly be from Murray, Whaley, and PLF for that matter. So I don't see why it even matters
jeffismagic Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 Do you happen to live in Pennsylvania by any chance? No. Downtown Buffalo.
WildCard Posted August 22, 2017 Author Report Posted August 22, 2017 Please do not put Beane and Botterill in the same sentence. The Sabres conducted a real GM search where they brought the top candidates in and hired someone with a remarkable resume. Please tell me how they're different Do you happen to live in Pennsylvania by any chance? He moved
jeffismagic Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 Please tell me how they're different He moved Botterill had significant duties and responsibilities in Pittsburgh where his work helped result in multiple Stanley Cups. Brandon Beane has no real background in player personnel OR scouting and was hired because he is buddies with the new coach.
ubkev Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 I'm sorry. Not as sorry as he'd be if he lived in Pennsylvania.
inkman Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 Not as sorry as he'd be if he lived in Pennsylvania. True Pennsyltucky is just that
tom webster Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 There was no "they". The Bills GM at the time rated Mahomes #1 and told the Bills to draft him. And it is fair to say that Whaley was already being fired and he knew that. So why in the world would the Bills get to a draft with the guy making the pick the rookie head coach?! This "approach" or plan is so ridiculous I don't know how anyone can defend it or like the idea that their billion dollar sports team had no adult supervision on draft night. That's just plain ridiculous. You keep talking like their is some magic formula to drafting a QB and it has been proven time after time that nobody's knows and it's even more evident now with the prevalence of the spread offense on College. An NFL QB has to do a lot more then be super athletic. Know why you rarely see Tom Brady avoiding the blitzer? Because he already got rid of the ball to the open receiver. There is virtually no way to know how someone who has never made line calls, read a defense or took a snap under center is going to adjust to doing that in virtually fractions of a second.
Weave Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 No way that is GoDD. Hasn't the style. Hasn't the humor.
WildCard Posted August 22, 2017 Author Report Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) Botterill had significant duties and responsibilities in Pittsburgh where his work helped result in multiple Stanley Cups. Brandon Beane has no real background in player personnel OR scouting and was hired because he is buddies with the new coach. He was the interim GM in 2012, has been the AGM since 2015, was the director of football operations for 8 years prior to that, and has been in the league for 19 years. But yeah, no experience. Whaley had a ton of experience in scouting, how'd that go? That's just plain ridiculous. You keep talking like their is some magic formula to drafting a QB and it has been proven time after time that nobody's knows and it's even more evident now with the prevalence of the spread offense on College. An NFL QB has to do a lot more then be super athletic. Know why you rarely see Tom Brady avoiding the blitzer? Because he already got rid of the ball to the open receiver. There is virtually no way to know how someone who has never made line calls, read a defense or took a snap under center is going to adjust to doing that in virtually fractions of a second. Bottom line is he has an agenda and refuses to budge on anything that would contradict it. Edited August 22, 2017 by WildCard
That Aud Smell Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 Pegula and his love affair for Sean the Wrestler reminds me of the Lafontaine meeting where he gave Pat a job that Lafontaine told Pegula he was not qualified for. "Remarkably, Terry Pegula, after having met Pat LaFontaine just twice, offered him the Sabres’ general manager job during a dinner with the former Sabres player. Keep in mind, LaFontaine had never been a general manager. LaFontaine turned it down pointing out that he didn’t have the skills for that job. Here are Pegula’s own words about his LaFontaine courtship: https://www.buffalorising.com/2014/03/the-pegula-process-why-sabres-fans-should-be-worried/ You posited that Pegula had given PLF a job for which PLF said he wasn't qualified. That's not quite it, as you later acknowledged. The job was offered (perhaps unwisely), but there was no acceptance and there was no deal. PLF said "no," and took on a president's position (for which he was qualified). Words matter. Posters undermine their positions when they needlessly twist or misrepresent facts.
WildCard Posted August 22, 2017 Author Report Posted August 22, 2017 You posited that Pegula had given PLF a job for which PLF said he wasn't qualified. That's not quite it, as you later acknowledged. The job was offered (perhaps unwisely), but there was no acceptance and there was no deal. PLF said "no," and took on a president's position (for which he was qualified). Words matter. Posters undermine their positions when they needlessly twist or misrepresent facts. That was the point of asking for the source. Thought for a minute there PLF was our GM for a bit
jeffismagic Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 That's just plain ridiculous. You keep talking like their is some magic formula to drafting a QB and it has been proven time after time that nobody's knows and it's even more evident now with the prevalence of the spread offense on College. An NFL QB has to do a lot more then be super athletic. Know why you rarely see Tom Brady avoiding the blitzer? Because he already got rid of the ball to the open receiver. There is virtually no way to know how someone who has never made line calls, read a defense or took a snap under center is going to adjust to doing that in virtually fractions of a second. There is no magic formula. It's really hard to draft a QB if they are not John Elway or Peyton Manning and project them from college to the NFL. Which is why it is very important to give yourself a fighting chance by employing the best of the best at the GM and coaching positions to maximize your chance of success in identifying, drafting, and developing a QB. You obviously do not know much about Mahomes as a prospect if you wrote that line. The only part that is true is the snaps from center. Guess what, if the Bills want to find a QB they need to stop employing dinosaur methods and scouts and start studying the actual complete talent pool where college prospects come from. Most of the college QB's play in spread systems. While the Bills are looking for safe picks that took snaps under center with limited talent like Peterman the best NFL teams are adapting THEIR playbooks to make the transition for these college QB's easier. Andy Reid employed many Air Raid plays as did NE Patriots. No surprise they see things differently than the backward thinkers in Buffalo. He was the interim GM in 2012, has been the AGM since 2015, was the director of football operations for 8 years prior to that, and has been in the league for 19 years. But yeah, no experience. Whaley had a ton of experience in scouting, how'd that go? Bottom line is he has an agenda and refuses to budge on anything that would contradict it. Better than Beane's short GM career will go.
darksabre Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 No way that is GoDD. Hasn't the style. Hasn't the humor. He also wouldn't come back here just to talk about football. I mean, come on.
jeffismagic Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 He also wouldn't come back here just to talk about football. I mean, come on. Once the Sabres season begins I doubt there will be much more to say about the Bills. They are as interesting now as they will be all year. You posited that Pegula had given PLF a job for which PLF said he wasn't qualified. That's not quite it, as you later acknowledged. The job was offered (perhaps unwisely), but there was no acceptance and there was no deal. PLF said "no," and took on a president's position (for which he was qualified). Words matter. Posters undermine their positions when they needlessly twist or misrepresent facts. That's a lot of spin. Lafontaine had no business at the top of the food chain no matter what title he ended up with.
That Aud Smell Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 There is no magic formula. It's really hard to draft a QB if they are not John Elway or Peyton Manning and project them from college to the NFL. Which is why it is very important to give yourself a fighting chance by employing the best of the best at the GM and coaching positions to maximize your chance of success in identifying, drafting, and developing a QB. You obviously do not know much about Mahomes as a prospect if you wrote that line. The only part that is true is the snaps from center. Guess what, if the Bills want to find a QB they need to stop employing dinosaur methods and scouts and start studying the actual complete talent pool where college prospects come from. Most of the college QB's play in spread systems. While the Bills are looking for safe picks that took snaps under center with limited talent like Peterman the best NFL teams are adapting THEIR playbooks to make the transition for these college QB's easier. Andy Reid employed many Air Raid plays as did NE Patriots. No surprise they see things differently than the backward thinkers in Buffalo. Better than Beane's short GM career will go. I'm not entirely sure that this is what Beane/McDermott are doing, will be doing, but, overall, this is an incisive point. A couple years ago, a writer for CBS (?) did a piece where he had multiple FO types bemoaning the lack of proper training and readiness among the top college quarterbacks/prospects. I can't recall if it was in the same piece, or in a later rejoinder to it, where some other voices were heard to point out, in essence, "The college systems are what they are for a reason, and they aren't changing because of what the NFL wants. The QB prospects are not going to conform to what we want and need. So we have to adapt." I'll reserve judgment on whether our current administrators can or will follow that trend.
jeffismagic Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 I'm not entirely sure that this is what Beane/McDermott are doing, will be doing, but, overall, this is an incisive point. A couple years ago, a writer for CBS (?) did a piece where he had multiple FO types bemoaning the lack of proper training and readiness among the top college quarterbacks/prospects. I can't recall if it was in the same piece, or in a later rejoinder to it, where some other voices were heard to point out, in essence, "The college systems are what they are for a reason, and they aren't changing because of what the NFL wants. The QB prospects are not going to conform to what we want and need. So we have to adapt." I'll reserve judgment on whether our current administrators can or will follow that trend. Fair enough. Nathan Peterman is a sample size of one. I think I was trying to attack the older scouts and talking heads and brought the Bills into it. All we know is Beane wants a "pocket passer" which could be 90% of the QB's in college.
WildCard Posted August 22, 2017 Author Report Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) Better than Beane's short GM career will go. He is much more similar to Botterill than Whaley. You like Whaley more than Bean. I'm willing to bet you complained just as much about Whaley when he was here as you are about Beane now m Edited August 22, 2017 by WildCard
jeffismagic Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 Based on what I think I have already outlined "the process" that got us to McDermott and Beane which was awful. What are the chances that a bottom feeding team like the Bills who don't conduct a real coach or GM search and look clueless in decision after decision suddenly figure it all out? The odds are against him. He is much more similar to Botterill than Whaley. You like Whaley more than Bean. I'm willing to bet you complained just as much about Whaley when he was here as you are about Beane now m I am fine with moving on from Whaley. Although I do admit he was not allowed to do his job and the Pegulas and Russ Brandon really put him in a bind with the Rex hiring.
That Aud Smell Posted August 22, 2017 Report Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) Fair enough. Nathan Peterman is a sample size of one. I think I was trying to attack the older scouts and talking heads and brought the Bills into it. All we know is Beane wants a "pocket passer" which could be 90% of the QB's in college. Here's what Beane said: “To be in this league, whether its Tyrod or name the quarterback, you have to make plays consistently from the pocket. The quarterbacks that are succeeding year after year after year consistently make plays from the pocket. That’s what, whoever the franchise quarterback is going to be, that’s what he’ll have to do. Do you disagree with that assessment? I sure don't. I think there's a difference between wanting a "pocket passer" and wanting a QB who can and will consistently make plays from the pocket. That doesn't mean you don't want a QB who can get outside the pocket and make plays when the situation calls for it. What Beane seems to want sounds more like a mental aspect to a QB's game rather than a physical one. In any case, it strikes me as faulty reasoning to predict that a desire for a "pocket passer" would cause Beane's FO to select an underwhelming prospect because of that prospect's track record of pocket passing in college. We've elsewhere discussed how Beane being the GM represents part of the league's new wave -- where business asset managers are the GM, rather than old school foobaw types you prefer. If Beane is new school, he's apt to be open to the adaptability we've discussed. Edited August 22, 2017 by That Aud Smell
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