Drunkard Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 Let me brake it down to it's essence. Buffalo traded with two teams. When all is said and done, I think we may have only downgraded one position (WR). Oh, thank God. I understand your position, I just disagree. Gaines may prove to be equal to or better than Darby, but that's irrelevant to me because Gaines wasn't traded for Darby. Even if Gaines was better than Darby he would have to be so much better that it offsets the downgrade from Watkins to Matthews. The most likely outcome is an overall downgrade for the 2017 season. For a team that hasn't made the playoffs since Bill Clinton was in office, it's not a good look for the organization.
MattPie Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) I understand your position, I just disagree. Gaines may prove to be equal to or better than Darby, but that's irrelevant to me because Gaines wasn't traded for Darby. Even if Gaines was better than Darby he would have to be so much better that it offsets the downgrade from Watkins to Matthews. The most likely outcome is an overall downgrade for the 2017 season. For a team that hasn't made the playoffs since Bill Clinton was in office, it's not a good look for the organization. The Bills downgraded in WR talent, Full Stop. It remains to be seen whether the Bills downgraded WR production (depends on how healthy Matthews is this season and Watkins would have been). Edited August 16, 2017 by MattPie
jeffismagic Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) Losing your franchise QB to season ending neck surgery isn't exactly a planned tank. However, they consciously chose not to add a QB after it happened. Im with eleven also in contending they are still not proof that tanking works. You put a lot of stock in anecdotal stories. The NFL is full of stories of how KC picked Steve Fuller over Joe Montana. As for Carr and Jimmy G, it's also full of stories about guys like Rob Johnson. Grades still incomplete Do you dispute the fact that the Browns owner overruled the football people to draft Manziel? Not only did Shanahan's QB board get ignored the Browns paid 100K to have an analytics report prepared on the 2014 QB class. The analytics report told the Browns to take Bridgewater. That report was paid for and also ignored. Sound familiar? A bumbling owner overruling the football people. Exactly what happened when Pegula hired Rex by listening to Brandon over the objections of the football people. Or when he fell in love with McDermott before any football questions had been asked. Edited August 16, 2017 by jeffismagic
Drunkard Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 The Bills downgraded in WR talent, Full Stop. It remains to be seen whether the Bills downgraded WR production (depends on how healthy Matthews is this season and Watkins would have been). It's entirely possible that Matthews could be more productive than Watkins given his gimpy foot. Gaines has the same gimpy foot issue that Watkins has though so it's also possible that Gaines misses significant time as well.
MattPie Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 Sound familiar? A bumbling owner overruling the football people. Exactly what happened when Pegula hired Rex by listening to Brandon over the objections of the football people. Or when he fell in love with McDermott before any football questions had been asked. Didn't I read that McDermott was on a list of 4 (?) coaches prepared by the NFL for teams that needed one? It's not like Pegula picked Gus Grimsley from Bishop Timon to be the head coach because he liked the cut of his jib.
MattPie Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 It's entirely possible that Matthews could be more productive than Watkins given his gimpy foot. Gaines has the same gimpy foot issue that Watkins has though so it's also possible that Gaines misses significant time as well. So in that light, the Bills upgraded WR production, making the team better for 2017. :)
jeffismagic Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) Didn't I read that McDermott was on a list of 4 (?) coaches prepared by the NFL for teams that needed one? It's not like Pegula picked Gus Grimsley from Bishop Timon to be the head coach because he liked the cut of his jib. That list is just names of various DC's and OC's from the NFL good old boy network. That certainly does not impress me. Kyle Shanahan and Jim Bob Cooter were far better candidates and neither were interviewed. The other guys the Bills interviewed were nobodies other than A Lynn. But A Lynn would not have been smart from a marketing position since he was connected to Rex. Edited August 16, 2017 by jeffismagic
Drunkard Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 So in that light, the Bills upgraded WR production, making the team better for 2017. :) Of course they did. The Bills are the best, most well run organization ever. McDermott was the coup of the century and totally deserved to choose his own GM. Only the best run organizations let rookie head coaches pick their own boss. Winning is not only likely, it's inevitable. Belichick is shaking in his boots at the mere thought of going up against his holy gingerness. I know Gilmore is trembling at the thought of having to cover Matthews and Brady is crying himself to sleep at the mere thought of having to even throw the football while EJ Gimpy Foot Gaines is on the field.
jeffismagic Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 Of course they did. The Bills are the best, most well run organization ever. McDermott was the coup of the century and totally deserved to choose his own GM. Only the best run organizations let rookie head coaches pick their own boss. Winning is not only likely, it's inevitable. Belichick is shaking in his boots at the mere thought of going up against his holy gingerness. I know Gilmore is trembling at the thought of having to cover Matthews and Brady is crying himself to sleep at the mere thought of having to even throw the football while EJ Gimpy Foot Gaines is on the field. Don't forget the Bills have the Greatest Scouting Department in the NFL because Beane the paper pusher from Carolina signed a few guys to replace the guys who were fired.
Drunkard Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 Don't forget the Bills have the Greatest Scouting Department in the NFL because Beane the paper pusher from Carolina signed a few guys to replace the guys who were fired. On the bright side we also got older by swapping out Robert Woods for Aquan Boldin. WRs age like fine wine, right?
jeffismagic Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 On the bright side we also got older by swapping out Robert Woods for Aquan Boldin. WRs age like fine wine, right? They also traded up for Zay "Possession Receiver" Jones.
Drunkard Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 They also traded up for Zay "Possession Receiver" Jones. Just wait until we auction McCoy off for scraps and then use our plethora of picks in 2018 to trade up for a RB. That's gonna be sweeeet.
WildCard Posted August 16, 2017 Author Report Posted August 16, 2017 Honestly I'm not sure why most of you guys even follow the Bills. It's miserable in here
LGR4GM Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 Honestly I'm not sure why most of you guys even follow the Bills. It's ###### miserable in here I follow the Bills in the same way I follow a shot of rotgut tequila, with a chaser of I don't give a .
Drunkard Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) Honestly I'm not sure why most of you guys even follow the Bills. It's ###### miserable in here Love'em or hate'em, they are my favorite team. I want them to do well even though I don't expect them do. I'm not going to let my fandom convince me that the questionable moves they've made were good decisions though. I did that enough during the first 16 or so years of the playoff drought. I'll need to see the team make progress to actually believe it. Edited August 16, 2017 by Drunkard
LGR4GM Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 My favorite team is the Sabres. The Bills are the hometown team which I feel almost no emotional attachment to because they have literally sucked my entire adult life.
WildCard Posted August 16, 2017 Author Report Posted August 16, 2017 Love'em or hate'em, they are my favorite team. I want them to do well even though I don't expect them do. I'm not going to let my fandom convince me that the questionable moves they've made were good decisions though. I did that enough during the first 16 or so years of the playoff drought. I'll need to see the team make progress to actually believe it. I mean I'm not saying follow them blindly. But some of these comments are just 'Well this guy sucks and that guy sucks because they all suck and are always gonna suck so we should just keep talking about how they suck'
That Aud Smell Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 Don't forget the Bills have the Greatest Scouting Department in the NFL because Beane the paper pusher from Carolina signed a few guys to replace the guys who were fired. This sort of stuff is gratuitous and unfounded, at this point in time anyway. It also tends to make it less pleasant, less interesting to read your content.
jeffismagic Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) This sort of stuff is gratuitous and unfounded, at this point in time anyway. It also tends to make it less pleasant, less interesting to read your content. Look up his resume. All he did was assist the actual scout/GM in Gettleman. Like when Curtis Modkins was the OC for Buffalo no one cared because Gailey was calling the plays and designing the offense. He has no background in scouting other than watching some film with Gettlelman. Russ Brandon also watched film with Modrak. That does not make him a real GM. Now I'm not declaring this can't work. There are a few teams that employ an admin type over a scouting expert as GM. But the best drafting NFL teams do not follow this approach. See Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, and Seattle. The reason he is here is he is wrestling buddies with McDermott. Edited August 16, 2017 by jeffismagic
That Aud Smell Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 Look up his resume. All he did was assist the actual scout/GM in Gettleman. Like when Curtis Modkins was the OC for Buffalo no one cared because Gailey was calling the plays and designing the offense. He has no background in scouting other than watching some film with Gettlelman. Russ Brandon also watched film with Modrak. That does not make him a real GM. Now I'm not declaring this can't work. There are a few teams that employ an admin type over a scouting expert as GM. But the best drafting NFL teams do not follow this approach. See Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, and Seattle. The reason he is here is he is wrestling buddies with McDermott. I can't recall where I heard or read it -- it might have been Sal C. at WGR talking about an article he read elsewhere -- but there is a growing trend across of the league of having the GM be more of a business-based asset manager, not a talent evaluator. I have my reservations, but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt until experience teaches me I should not.
Drunkard Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 I mean I'm not saying follow them blindly. But some of these comments are just 'Well this guy sucks and that guy sucks because they all suck and are always gonna suck so we should just keep talking about how they suck' So when we trade our 1st or 2nd most talented player (depending on how you view Watkins vs McCoy) a month before the season starts we're not supposed to be negative? That's not how message boards work. They're mostly negative when a team is bad and mostly positive when a team is good. We've been bad for almost two decades now. Trying to be artificially positive may make the message board more enjoyable to read for some but it doesn't make for a good discussion. Message boards are at their best when all sides enter the discussion and make their points.
LGR4GM Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 The conversation in here reminds me of the 2013 Sabres. We knew we had a major cluster on our hands but the best way to fix it was still up for debate.
Drunkard Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 I have my reservations, but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt until experience teaches me I should not. This is where we differ. I've reached the point where I'm no longer giving them the benefit of the doubt. Not only is their track record dog through 2 owners and countless GM's and Head Coaches but they continually make head scratching decisions that don't seem to align with trying to win, whether it's hiring Rex Ryan to sell tickets, keeping Russ Brandon, giving too much power to a first time head coach, pumping up his non-football related qualities, trading one of their most talented players, and letting another one walk for nothing.
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