Buffalo Bills 2017-18

[Drunkard]

Of course it was a stupid decision. Half the board was perfectly fine with it too. Bills fans have some weird fetish with backup QB's. It's a constant infatuation with the next man up in the pecking order. It's fine to see what the next guy has, but they should have waited until Taylor was injured or they were eliminated from the playoffs before screwing around with the most important position on the field.

 

Tyrod Taylor is not a great QB but he is a good one. He's also the best QB we've had since Flutie and people want to run him out of town because he's not 6'4" and he's not Joe Montana. Even now people are infatuated with the next crop of college QB's when it would help the team more to beef up the lines and improve the players around Taylor. Mob mentality will rule out in the end though because Russ Brandon has his finger on the pulse of the fan base. The Bills will jettison Taylor and spend the season wondering why the new rookie struggles as the line gives up constant pressure and other teams run all over us while Taylor goes elsewhere. Rinse and repeat in 2/3 more seasons as we scapegoat the next guy and fantasize about the next crop of QB's in 2020 or 2021.

[That Aud Smell]

I'm good with Tyrod coming back next year -- even knowing everything that he is, and is not.

 

In point of fact, I'd rather they change OC's than try to do something different at QB next year (or, at least, tweak the current system so it's not such an ill fit for Taylor (and maybe that's already occurred?)). If they do draft a QB in round 1, I'd prefer he not be obliged to start.

[Samson's Flow]

I'm good with Tyrod coming back next year -- even knowing everything that he is, and is not.

 

In point of fact, I'd rather they change OC's than try to do something different at QB next year (or, at least, tweak the current system so it's not such an ill fit for Taylor (and maybe that's already occurred?)). If they do draft a QB in round 1, I'd prefer he not be obliged to start.

I think it would be absolutely foolish not to draft a QB this year, given we are positioned to do so with multiple draft picks and no clear long term answer at QB. That being said, this strategy does not mean we need to immediately start the new QB and jettison Tyrod. I would prefer the strategy of Alex Smith/Mahommes or even further back Favre/Rodgers where the heir can sit and learn the system for a year or two so they are ready to go when the time comes.

[MattPie]

I just can't see us beating New England. Those guys own us. It would be the biggest win of the 21st century.

 

Oh, I completely agree. The Bills need to win out to have a chance, and the chances of them winning out are around 10% in my non-evidence-based opinion.

 

The Bills don't control their own destiny yet, sadly.  If Baltimore wins next week, they'll jump us even if we beat the Cheatriots.

 

I didn't know that, that's just gravy. I've been thinking of the Billsiest ways to blow this shot at the playoffs, and that scenario isn't even that Billsy. It'd be pretty reasonable if the Bills won out and still missed, other than the Billsy decisions they made earlier in the season (Peterman and that DL they cut and haven't stopped the run since).

[North Buffalo]

I'm good with Tyrod coming back next year -- even knowing everything that he is, and is not.

 

In point of fact, I'd rather they change OC's than try to do something different at QB next year (or, at least, tweak the current system so it's not such an ill fit for Taylor (and maybe that's already occurred?)). If they do draft a QB in round 1, I'd prefer he not be obliged to start.

Only if he takes a 1 year contract. Still cant throw guys open. For the Bills to grow TT needs to be a bkup

[Eleven]

I think it would be absolutely foolish not to draft a QB this year, given we are positioned to do so with multiple draft picks and no clear long term answer at QB. That being said, this strategy does not mean we need to immediately start the new QB and jettison Tyrod. I would prefer the strategy of Alex Smith/Mahommes or even further back Favre/Rodgers where the heir can sit and learn the system for a year or two so they are ready to go when the time comes.

 

That was the original plan with Manuel and that should be the plan this year.

I wanted to move a convo from the Around the NHL thread.  

 

Tyrod not starting the charger game.

 

First, it is stupid to pull your starting QB when you are in a playoff spot. That move by McDermott is mind numbingly dumb

 

Second, it is even more idiotic to let the rookie QB you replaced Tyrod with throw not 1 or 2 or 3 interceptions but 5 before you pull him.  He was vulnerable (wait can I use that word or is only the CDC not allowed to use it?) to having a bad game because he is a rookie. Complete stupidity on the coaching side.

 

Third, I don't think they win with Tyrod because I don't think they would have put up enough points with Tyrod anyways. Basically I think the Charger offense would have scored on our defense and I think we would not have kept up with that.  That is why I don't think it matters that Tyrod didn't start that game.  Again, I also think points 1 and 2 are valid so it might be a catch 22.  I just hope they learn a thing or two from their coaches mistakes and are better next year because there have been some really questionable playcalls and other decisions this season. 

 

I don't think the Chargers score 54 without 5 first-half interceptions.

 

EDIT:  Also, as far as learning goes, I think the staff took a step forward this week.  They recognized that Miami was blitzing on every third down and adjusted accordingly.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Eleven

[LGR4GM]

Of course it was a stupid decision. Half the board was perfectly fine with it too. Bills fans have some weird fetish with backup QB's. It's a constant infatuation with the next man up in the pecking order. It's fine to see what the next guy has, but they should have waited until Taylor was injured or they were eliminated from the playoffs before screwing around with the most important position on the field.

 

Tyrod Taylor is not a great QB but he is a good one. He's also the best QB we've had since Flutie and people want to run him out of town because he's not 6'4" and he's not Joe Montana. Even now people are infatuated with the next crop of college QB's when it would help the team more to beef up the lines and improve the players around Taylor. Mob mentality will rule out in the end though because Russ Brandon has his finger on the pulse of the fan base. The Bills will jettison Taylor and spend the season wondering why the new rookie struggles as the line gives up constant pressure and other teams run all over us while Taylor goes elsewhere. Rinse and repeat in 2/3 more seasons as we scapegoat the next guy and fantasize about the next crop of QB's in 2020 or 2021.

Drafting a QB in this draft is important. You need a QB every draft until you find a good one.  

That was the original plan with Manuel and that should be the plan this year.

 

I don't think the Chargers score 54 without 5 first-half interceptions.

 

EDIT:  Also, as far as learning goes, I think the staff took a step forward this week.  They recognized that Miami was blitzing on every third down and adjusted accordingly.

Drafting Manuel in the first was one of the dumbest decisions of the drought. 

 

Maybe they don't. I just don't think Buffalo outscores the chargers that game regardless of who is playing QB. 

I'm good with Tyrod coming back next year -- even knowing everything that he is, and is not.

 

In point of fact, I'd rather they change OC's than try to do something different at QB next year (or, at least, tweak the current system so it's not such an ill fit for Taylor (and maybe that's already occurred?)). If they do draft a QB in round 1, I'd prefer he not be obliged to start.

I agree with this. I would like to see the rookie start behind taylor and then get a few reps in when we are up in a game and can't lose late in the fourth.. which happens almost never. Either way we need a veteran QB in case the rookie needs time. 

[Gramps]

Drafting a QB in this draft is important. You need a QB every draft until you find a good one.  

Drafting Manuel in the first was one of the dumbest decisions of the drought. 

 

Maybe they don't. I just don't think Buffalo outscores the chargers that game regardless of who is playing QB. 

I agree with this. I would like to see the rookie start behind taylor and then get a few reps in when we are up in a game and can't lose late in the fourth.. which happens almost never. Either way we need a veteran QB in case the rookie needs time. 

 

Like Peterman the rookie ? 

[That Aud Smell]

Drafting Manuel in the first was one of the dumbest decisions of the drought.  

 

Remember that conversation that some sports blogging pranksters created, and then recorded, between Buddy Nix and some other team's FO exec? Nix freely admitted: It was a terrible year to need a QB. They took their best shot.

Edited December 18, 2017 by That Aud Smell

[Eleven]

Remember that conversation that some sports blogging pranksters created, and then recorded, between Buddy Nix and some other team's FO exec? Nix freely admitted: It was a terrible year to need a QB. They took their best shot.

 

Geno Smith (round 2)

Mike Glennon (round 3)

Matt Barkley (round 4)

Ryan Nassib (round 4)

Tyler Wilson (round 4)

Landry Jones (round 4)

 

I'm not going past that.

 

So you're right.  It's not that the Bills made a mistake; it's that there really wasn't anyone better out there.  I think I'd still rather take Manuel over any of those guys.  Had Kolb not been injured, had Manuel had the right chance to develop, maybe he would have turned out differently.  Probably not, frankly, but the plan, such as it were, was not a bad plan.

Like Peterman the rookie ? 

 

In a can't-win or can't-lose situation in the fourth quarter?  Sure.  Most teams do that with any backup.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

For the record ...

 

If the Bills just miss out on the playoffs again this season it won't be because they lost to the Jets, or the Chargers.

 

IMO, it was the week 5 loss in Cinci that did them in.

[That Aud Smell]

It's not that the Bills made a mistake; it's that there really wasn't anyone better out there.  I think I'd still rather take Manuel over any of those guys.  Had Kolb not been injured, had Manuel had the right chance to develop, maybe he would have turned out differently.  Probably not, frankly, but the plan, such as it were, was not a bad plan..

 

It was a decent plan that went horribly awry after a bad injury (bad injuries?). I think Manuel was rightly seen as the best of that bunch -- certainly, he had the most upside. 

[Eleven]

For the record ...

 

If the Bills just miss out on the playoffs again this season it won't be because they lost to the Jets, or the Chargers.

 

IMO, it was the week 5 loss in Cinci that did them in.

 

Cincinnati and Carolina.

It was a decent plan that went horribly awry after a bad injury (bad injuries?). I think Manuel was rightly seen as the best of that bunch -- certainly, he had the most upside. 

 

Yep

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Cincinnati and Carolina.

 

Yep

 

Carolina is a good team.  Did you really think they should have won that game?  It was close and they could have won, but was it expected that they would?

[Drunkard]

Only if he takes a 1 year contract. Still cant throw guys open. For the Bills to grow TT needs to be a bkup

 

Taylor is already signed to a multi-year contract. If they tried to do something so foolish as to cut him in order to re-sign him to a 1 year deal I bet a half dozen teams would offer him something better.

 

 

Drafting a QB in this draft is important. You need a QB every draft until you find a good one.  

 

 

We already have a good QB in Taylor. If our pick comes up at the draft and there's a potentially great QB on the board, I'm fine with drafting that guy and letting him compete against Taylor. I'm not ok with blowing our stockpile of draft picks to reach for some guy and showing Taylor the door so the FNG guy has no competition to start.

[Eleven]

Carolina is a good team.  Did you really think they should have won that game?  It was close and they could have won, but was it expected that they would?

 

At the time the games were played, it wasn't expected that the Bills would beat a lot of the teams they beat.  This includes Denver, TB, KC, Atlanta, and Oakland.

 

They held Carolina to 9 points.  Hell yes they should have won.

[inkman]

So how many yards and points did fat Mike Tolbert leave on the field this season. If the Bills had used anyone but him as a backup RB this season, I bet they average a few more points each game. He's that bad.

At the time the games were played, it wasn't expected that the Bills would beat a lot of the teams they beat. This includes Denver, TB, KC, Atlanta, and Oakland.

AL those teams, thought to be good to great coming into the season, turned out to be mediocre to terrible. That's why I can't stand preseason predictions. Teams jump up and fall back every season, trying to predict wins in a single game, moronic

[darksabre]

So how many yards and points did fat Mike Tolbert leave on the field this season. If the Bills had used anyone but him as a backup RB this season, I bet they average a few more points each game. He's that bad.

 

AL those teams, thought to be good to great coming into the season, turned out to be mediocre to terrible. That's why I can't stand preseason predictions. Teams jump up and fall back every season, trying to predict wins in a single game, moronic

The Tolbert experiment and the Peterman experiment are why I'm super worried about letting McBeane draft for this team. I'm not confident in their talent evaluation at all.

[WildCard]

The Tolbert experiment and the Peterman experiment are why I'm super worried about letting McBeane draft for this team. I'm not confident in their talent evaluation at all.

Tre White, Jordan Poyer, and Micah Hyde seem to have worked out pretty well

[LGR4GM]

Geno Smith (round 2)

Mike Glennon (round 3)

Matt Barkley (round 4)

Ryan Nassib (round 4)

Tyler Wilson (round 4)

Landry Jones (round 4)

 

I'm not going past that.

 

So you're right.  It's not that the Bills made a mistake; it's that there really wasn't anyone better out there.  I think I'd still rather take Manuel over any of those guys.  Had Kolb not been injured, had Manuel had the right chance to develop, maybe he would have turned out differently.  Probably not, frankly, but the plan, such as it were, was not a bad plan.

 

In a can't-win or can't-lose situation in the fourth quarter?  Sure.  Most teams do that with any backup.

THEY DID MAKE A MISTAKE.  They drafted a qb in the 1st round in a year without a first round qb.  They pissed away a first round draft pick for nothing like the bunch of clueless idiots they are. 

Taylor is already signed to a multi-year contract. If they tried to do something so foolish as to cut him in order to re-sign him to a 1 year deal I bet a half dozen teams would offer him something better.

 

 

 

We already have a good QB in Taylor. If our pick comes up at the draft and there's a potentially great QB on the board, I'm fine with drafting that guy and letting him compete against Taylor. I'm not ok with blowing our stockpile of draft picks to reach for some guy and showing Taylor the door so the FNG guy has no competition to start.

He's not a good qb. He is so average it hurts. 

 

Have I said anything at all about trading up? No because that would be stupid with the other holes we have to fill. 

It was a decent plan that went horribly awry after a bad injury (bad injuries?). I think Manuel was rightly seen as the best of that bunch -- certainly, he had the most upside. 

No it wasn't. It never was and never will be. Buffalo fans drank the GD kool-aid from the second we drafted Manuel. There was all this dumb talk about his big hands and natural athleticism blah blah blah. He was a 2nd round player taken 30 picks to high in a weak QB draft but a bunch of incompetent morons. 

I'm done talking about EJ Manuel.  You guys want to wax poetic about how we had to do that in the first, be my guess.  It was dumb then and it is still a dumb move now. Just like trading up for Watkins.  EJ Manuel was not a first round player for anyone with a half a brain, which is why the Bills drafted him, they didn't have a brain.  

[CallawaySabres]

For the record ...

 

If the Bills just miss out on the playoffs again this season it won't be because they lost to the Jets, or the Chargers.

 

IMO, it was the week 5 loss in Cinci that did them in.

 

And the Colts could have kicked a field goal to win last week and put the nail in their coffin. It all evens out in the end...

[That Aud Smell]

No it wasn't. It never was and never will be. Buffalo fans drank the GD kool-aid from the second we drafted Manuel. There was all this dumb talk about his big hands and natural athleticism blah blah blah. He was a 2nd round player taken 30 picks to high in a weak QB draft but a bunch of incompetent morons. 

I'm done talking about EJ Manuel.  You guys want to wax poetic about how we had to do that in the first, be my guess.  It was ###### dumb then and it is still a dumb move now. Just like trading up for Watkins.  EJ Manuel was not a first round player for anyone with a half a brain, which is why the Bills drafted him, they didn't have a ###### brain.  

 

You may wanna up the dosage, homes. I'm no kool-aid drinker. Nor is Eleven, for that matter.

 

They did reach for Manuel, and it most definitely did not work out. That is neither the first nor last time an NFL team will reach for a QB and have it blow up in their face.

 

But it was a rational risk to take, in my eyes. It was also a decision tainted with some desire for self-preservation on the part of the decision makers, but that's almost always the case -- if the team is bad, the FO will be gone soon enough. They wanted to get better in a hurry. And so they rolled the dice on the big fella.

 

It was not a *good* risk, in my mind (even at the time, I was not a fan) -- but it was a rational risk.

 

The talk about it being mindless and idiotic is over-played to me. That sort of talk does have some place with the Watkins decision -- that was a B-A-D BAD call. Just dumb asset management.

[Eleven]

You may wanna up the dosage, homes. I'm no kool-aid drinker. Nor is Eleven, for that matter.

 

They did reach for Manuel, and it most definitely did not work out. That is neither the first nor last time an NFL team will reach for a QB and have it blow up in their face.

 

But it was a rational risk to take, in my eyes. It was also a decision tainted with some desire for self-preservation on the part of the decision makers, but that's almost always the case -- if the team is bad, the FO will be gone soon enough. They wanted to get better in a hurry. And so they rolled the dice on the big fella.

 

It was not a *good* risk, in my mind (even at the time, I was not a fan) -- but it was a rational risk.

 

The talk about it being mindless and idiotic is over-played to me. That sort of talk does have some place with the Watkins decision -- that was a B-A-D BAD call. Just dumb asset management.

 

I approve of this message.

[MattPie]

You may wanna up the dosage, homes. I'm no kool-aid drinker. Nor is Eleven, for that matter.

 

They did reach for Manuel, and it most definitely did not work out. That is neither the first nor last time an NFL team will reach for a QB and have it blow up in their face.

 

But it was a rational risk to take, in my eyes. It was also a decision tainted with some desire for self-preservation on the part of the decision makers, but that's almost always the case -- if the team is bad, the FO will be gone soon enough. They wanted to get better in a hurry. And so they rolled the dice on the big fella.

 

It was not a *good* risk, in my mind (even at the time, I was not a fan) -- but it was a rational risk.

 

The talk about it being mindless and idiotic is over-played to me. That sort of talk does have some place with the Watkins decision -- that was a B-A-D BAD call. Just dumb asset management.

 

I'm really mad about the reach for Manuel; think of the RB the Bills could have picked up in that spot and likely still gotten EJ in the second.

[That Aud Smell]

I'm really mad about the reach for Manuel; think of the RB the Bills could have picked up in that spot and likely still gotten EJ in the second.

 

I seen what you did there.

 

Btw, looking back at that draft class (2013) -- was it worse overall than normal? About the same?

 

I briefly searched for a site that would provide evaluations for draft years, and compare one to another, after they'd aged 3 years or so. But I did not readily find such a site.