Keep or Trade Evander Kane

[nucci]

6m for a 3rd liner?

why do you say 3rd liner?

[nfreeman]

If the Sabres want to bring in a #2,#3,#4 defenseman then they need to concentrate on re-signing Kulikov. Nobody has seen what he is capable of because of his injury (he has been steadily improving) but he is, at worst, a #3. I've seen Kulikov play for years, he's worth holding on to. Keeping players you already have allows you to avoid trading valuable players to fill those spots which in turn allows Murray to hold on to Kane.

 

Contract terms have been compared to Okposo and what he is worth. One, Okposo chose term over $$. If he settled for less term he would have made more per year elsewhere. Two, Kane brings more intangibles to the game than Okposo. I've seen the comparison above as far as points and goals per 82 games between Kane and Okposo. That's a tough comparison to make because Kane was stuck in Winnipeg while Okposo was playing with Tavares. I think Okposo is a very smart, consistent player with a great work ethic. I also think he's reached his ceiling. Kane on the other hand, I don't think has reached his ceiling. If you put the two in similar situations, on the same team, Kane is going to outperform Okposo............. and he is. Okposo doesn't have the speed and the physical attributes that Kane has. That OT goal that Kane scored tonight, Okposo could never do that.

 

Lucic was brought in to pretty much protect McDavid, while having some offensive abilities to make that line work. There isn't anybody else on this team that can be put on a line with Eichel who can keep up with his speed, score goals on a regular basis and protect him when needed, like Kane can.

 

I think Sabres fans tend to undervalue their players. Many here see Kane as a top 6. I would bet if Kane were traded, 75% of the teams, if not more, would make him a top 3. He's more valuable to this team than many give him credit for.

 

Focus on signing Kulikov and getting Kane an extension.

Good post.

[jsb]

I hope Kane is okay. That didn't look good.

I agree, when it first happened I thought there was a chance he broke his neck

 

If the Sabres want to bring in a #2,#3,#4 defenseman then they need to concentrate on re-signing Kulikov. Nobody has seen what he is capable of because of his injury (he has been steadily improving) but he is, at worst, a #3. I've seen Kulikov play for years, he's worth holding on to. Keeping players you already have allows you to avoid trading valuable players to fill those spots which in turn allows Murray to hold on to Kane. 

 

Contract terms have been compared to Okposo and what he is worth. One, Okposo chose term over $$. If he settled for less term he would have made more per year elsewhere. Two, Kane brings more intangibles to the game than Okposo. I've seen the comparison above as far as points and goals per 82 games between Kane and Okposo. That's a tough comparison to make because Kane was stuck in Winnipeg while Okposo was playing with Tavares. I think Okposo is a very smart, consistent player with a great work ethic. I also think he's reached his ceiling. Kane on the other hand, I don't think has reached his ceiling. If you put the two in similar situations, on the same team, Kane is going to outperform Okposo............. and he is. Okposo doesn't have the speed and the physical attributes that Kane has. That OT goal that Kane scored tonight, Okposo could never do that. 

 

Lucic was brought in to pretty much protect McDavid, while having some offensive abilities to make that line work. There isn't anybody else on this team that can be put on a line with Eichel who can keep up with his speed, score goals on a regular basis and protect him when needed, like Kane can. 

 

I think Sabres fans tend to undervalue their players. Many here see Kane as a top 6. I would bet if Kane were traded, 75% of the teams, if not more, would make him a top 3. He's more valuable to this team than many give him credit for. 

 

Focus on signing Kulikov and getting Kane an extension. 

Good post, I concur, we may make you president of the Kane club!!!

That final rush up the ice was electric by those 2

[Scottysabres]

Playoffs. Kane's position this season will all come down to the playoff picture.

 

But if a deal presents itself that achieves fulfilling a defensive need, which is a very real possibility, you pull the trigger.

 

LW depth is an issue and losing Kane further deepens that depth issue. The problem with Kane is he hasn't been a consistent fit with top 2 lines, and at 5.25 aav that is a serious concern you just don't turn a blind eye to because he scored a couple of goals in a game. There are 82 games in a season, there is definitely 2 very good centers here in Buffalo.

We are flush with RW'er depth, someone is going to be ass out of a roster spot here with the big club. Reinhart, Okposo, Bailey, Baptiste, Fasching one these guys isn't going to like drawing the short straw.

 

Tim Murray has the ammo to offer Kane and a B+ RW near NHL ready prospect in a deal. There are teams flush with defensive young talent that slots at a #2 LHD OR #3 RHD that are looking to address winger issues that add immediate impact for a playoff window. We have Jack and Sam's deals to consider as well.

 

The iron is hot........

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by Lucky E

[nfreeman]

Playoffs. Kane's position this season will all come down to the playoff picture.

 

But if a deal presents itself that achieves fulfilling a defensive need, which is a very real possibility, you pull the trigger.

 

LW depth is an issue and losing Kane further deepens that depth issue. The problem with Kane is he hasn't been a consistent fit with top 2 lines, and at 5.25 aav that is a serious concern you just don't turn a blind eye to because he scored a couple of goals in a game. There are 82 games in a season, there is definitely 2 very good centers here in Buffalo.

We are flush with RW'er depth, someone is going to be ass out of a roster spot here with the big club. Reinhart, Okposo, Bailey, Baptiste, Fasching one these guys isn't going to like drawing the short straw.

 

Tim Murray has the ammo to offer Kane and a B+ RW near NHL ready prospect in a deal. There are teams flush with defensive young talent that slots at a #2 LHD OR #3 RHD that are looking to address winger issues that add immediate impact for a playoff window. We have Jack and Sam's deals to consider as well.

 

The iron is hot........

 

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Scoring is also an issue -- the Sabres are 23rd in the NHL.  Kane is their 2nd-leading goal-scorer (in 10 fewer games than KO, who is the leader).

 

As for the "top 2 lines" point -- many others have made this point, but it continues to be neither here nor there.  Kane is 4th in ice time on the team among forwards.  He's a big part of their rotation. 

 

IMHO it is crazy to consider trading Kane unless (i) he has told them that he plans to leave once he hits UFA or (ii) a no-BS young #1 defenseman is coming back.

[That Aud Smell]

I still hate how he needlessly takes so many low-percentage shots. And I still think his hockey IQ is below average.

 

But the guy goes 110 mph, every shift (EVERY shift), fairly terrorizes his opponents, knows how to finish, and leaves it all on the ice.

 

He's got 1 year left after this one.

 

Will he have sufficient value at the trade deadline to justify a deal? I sorta tend to doubt it. I think other GMs will worry that he'll disrupt their team's dynamic during a playoff push.

 

Question becomes: Do you re-sign him to a deal worth ~$5.5M per season?

[Samson's Flow]

Scoring is also an issue -- the Sabres are 23rd in the NHL.  Kane is their 2nd-leading goal-scorer (in 10 fewer games than KO, who is the leader).

 

As for the "top 2 lines" point -- many others have made this point, but it continues to be neither here nor there.  Kane is 4th in ice time on the team among forwards.  He's a big part of their rotation. 

 

IMHO it is crazy to consider trading Kane unless (i) he has told them that he plans to leave once he hits UFA or (ii) a no-BS young #1 defenseman is coming back.

After reading through this was exactly what I was going to post. The Sabres need scoring and Kane does that, he's always had a high goal to total points ratio, meaning he is the finisher not the playmaker. 

 

Second - and more importantly - he is not a "3rd line" player, and just because DDB chooses to shuffle lines and spread out our talent to 3 lines I am of the opinion that the hierarchy of players is judged by their nightly ice time not where they are slotted. Risto is clearly our #1 defenseman since he averages 27+ minutes of ice time. In terms of forwards, here's our top 5:

 

ROR  21:37

Eichel  19:57

Okposo 19:08

Kane 18:46

Reinhart 17:22

 

http://www.foxsports.com/nhl/buffalo-sabres-team-stats?season=2016&category=ICE+TIME&time=0

 

So from the coach's perspective Kaner is the 4th most important forward, and very heavily used on ES as the other four players listed average 3 min/gm of PP time, while kane is on the PP2 and only gets 1:42.

[Jsixspd]

I hope Kane is okay. That didn't look good.

Yup.   I had flashbacks to his injury earlier this year smashing into the boards.  

[Huckleberry]

His price keeps going up. We don't have to trade . We actually need him.

 

He isn't going without that top 4 lhd coming back. And maybe more even

Edited February 8, 2017 by Huckleberry

[Scottysabres]

Scoring is also an issue -- the Sabres are 23rd in the NHL.  Kane is their 2nd-leading goal-scorer (in 10 fewer games than KO, who is the leader).

 

As for the "top 2 lines" point -- many others have made this point, but it continues to be neither here nor there.  Kane is 4th in ice time on the team among forwards.  He's a big part of their rotation. 

 

IMHO it is crazy to consider trading Kane unless (i) he has told them that he plans to leave once he hits UFA or (ii) a no-BS young #1 defenseman is coming back.

Agreed on scoring is an issue. But looking at the teams record indicates Kane's scoring hasn't developed significant upward mobility in the standings, and really, here's the rub on this: "because he doesn't add a significant impact with regards to consistency in the line up, it hinders chemistry as opposed to promoting it among the other line configurations".

 

And that, to me in any event, is really what I see with top tier teams, consistency in chemistry with their go to lines. While I realize all teams adjust lines either for a certain opponent or in game due to circumstances, more often than not their top lines have set chemistry.

 

And I'm not blaming Kane for the D zone breakout failures or O zone puck give-aways issues this team has. I'm merely pointing out that the lack of addressed D that could offset some of those issues currently supersedes the LW hole that would be created in his absence.

 

Of course, I openly admit as you rightly point out, scoring and that LW situation would then have to be addressed. But given the current premium on D league wide right now and for the foreseeable short term future, I personally feel it would be much less difficult to address that LW depth as opposed to that defensive depth situation moving forward.

[That Aud Smell]

given the current premium on D league wide right now and for the foreseeable short term future, I personally feel it would be much less difficult to address that LW depth as opposed to that defensive depth situation moving forward.

 

Hear, hear.

 

I'm not sure, though, that Kane (or even Kane+) nets a top 4 LHD.

 

Cripes. When did capable d-men become such a rare commodity?

Also, @Scottysabres, I've very much been enjoying your input - thanks for showing up!

[Scottysabres]

Hear, hear.

 

I'm not sure, though, that Kane (or even Kane+) nets a top 4 LHD.

 

Cripes. When did capable d-men become such a rare commodity?Also, @Scottysabres, I've very much been enjoying your input - thanks for showing up!

I'm in your line of thought as well on net value of Kane alone, hence why I mentioned the over abundance of RW B+ prospects in the organization.

 

And thanks, I just enjoy reading about and talking hockey, especially the sabres.

[That Aud Smell]

I'm in your line of thought as well on net value of Kane alone, hence why I mentioned the over abundance of RW B+ prospects in the organization.

 

And thanks, I just enjoy reading about and talking hockey, especially the sabres.

 

Missed that.

 

Has this always been the case? Have top-4 d-men always been so hard to come by? Along with many others, I scoffed a bit when Taylor Hall yielded Adam Larsson. But ... that now seems about right. Right?

[nfreeman]

Also, @Scottysabres, I've very much been enjoying your input - thanks for showing up!

 

Seconded.

[Scottysabres]

Missed that.

 

Has this always been the case? Have top-4 d-men always been so hard to come by? Along with many others, I scoffed a bit when Taylor Hall yielded Adam Larsson. But ... that now seems about right. Right?

It is odd that there appears to be a shortage of those top 4 slotted existing talents in the 22 to 27 age range. But then, I see the hoarding by teams like Carolina and Anaheim up and down their organizational pipelines as well as teams mostly locking up that talent long term and 2 things immediately come to mind:

 

1. Defenseman are almost all 2 way now. You don't see nearly as many defensive stay at home types and it's becoming the clear the 2 way defenders are contributing in some cases are on par with offensive defenseman. Personally I think the league is at a crossroads on this and 2 way defenders are the new league model.

 

2. As we Sabres fans are painfully aware given the Hurricanes ECF SERIES against us 10 years ago, you can never have enough defensive depth. And that to me in any event, is where I see teams like Anaheim hoarding.

 

Of course, this conversation would not be complete for Buffalo if it didn't include the why of the situation. And this falls squarely on the desk of GM Tim Murray. This may not be the right venue thread to broach this subject, but BPA in drafts and targeting in 2nd and 3rd round picks of forward heavy strategies has left a gaping hole in back end depth. Trading for a Kulikov to try and plug a hole short term and move up to further grab future forward depth only leads to tough decisions as the can he kicked down the road fast approaches his feet again.

 

It's just my personal view, but there is a reckoning coming on Tim's strategy, and it's coming like an out of control freight train. Something must be done, Kane may, and I stress may, be a factor in gaining control of the situation.

[Jsixspd]

Voted!!!!  After last night, how can I not vote "KEEP"?  

I will be very disappointed if he's traded -  I hope Murray remembers an old adage -  "A bird in the hand...."  

[WildCard]

Trade him for Ghost

[darksabre]

Trade him for Ghost

 

I'll trade him for any top-4 D-man. Sign Vanek in the off-season and let Nylander eventually take his job. 

[WildCard]

I'll trade him for any top-4 D-man. Sign Vanek in the off-season and let Nylander eventually take his job.

Ghost is the best fit for what we need and probably the cheapest

[JJFIVEOH]

I'll never understand the 'his value is going up, trade him' logic. If his value (not referring to any player in particular) is going up then he's playing great hockey. Isn't this team looking for players playing great hockey? Why complain about a team not having enough talent to make the playoffs, and then suggest trading the players that do have enough to get you there?

 

I just don't get it........

[WildCard]

I'll never understand the 'his value is going up, trade him' logic. If his value (not referring to any player in particular) is going up then he's playing great hockey. Isn't this team looking for players playing great hockey? Why complain about a team not having enough talent to make the playoffs, and then suggest trading the players that do have enough to get you there?

 

I just don't get it........

Cause I don't think he can or will sustain this. I also think we have bigger roster needs, especially given our prospect pool Edited February 8, 2017 by WildCard

[JJFIVEOH]

I wouldn't touch Ghost for anything more than a 3rd round pick.

Edited February 8, 2017 by JJFIVEOH

[nfreeman]

Does anyone have an update on Kane's well-being following that collision into the boards on the GWG last night? 

[JJFIVEOH]

Cause I don't think he can or will sustain this. I also think we have bigger roster needs, especially given our prospect pool

Nobody can sustain it, but he does play 100% every night unlike most players and you will get the overall results. Do you really think a GM is going trade more thinking he (or anybody) will sustain the kind of streak he's on?

Does anyone have an update on Kane's well-being following that collision into the boards on the GWG last night?

I would assume since he gave the interview last night and PHam didn't ask him about it, that he's OK.

[Randall Flagg]

Nobody can sustain it, but he does play 100% every night unlike most players and you will get the overall results. Do you really think a GM is going trade more thinking he (or anybody) will sustain the kind of streak he's on?

 

I would assume since he gave the interview last night and PHam didn't ask him about it, that he's OK.

Even when Kane's scoring cools off, he is an effective hockey player, for sure. I really hope we can keep him around.

 

 

Does anyone have an update on Kane's well-being following that collision into the boards on the GWG last night? 

None, but he had something on his right hand/wrist during his interview. If you pause the video right when he hits the boards, you can see why, it jams into the bottom of the boards pretty hard. And hopefully he's not concussed.