Will Byslma be the HC Next Year?

[dudacek]

Today was the players.

Doesn't mean the coach shouldn't change.

[Randall Flagg]

Today was the players.

Doesn't mean the coach shouldn't change.

My view is that in a vacuum, the players will let their foot off the pedal and get complacent mentally, and that good leadership and coaching is required to change this. 

 

Bylsma is not able to do anything about it, and to be honest, his ultraconservative, no-risks-ever style doesn't exactly go against the grain of the players letting their foot off the pedal. 

 

It's a negative against him that this team coughs up 2 and 3 goal leads almost every time they get them. 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Randall Flagg

[SwampD]

I love how the HF boards are Word when used to prove a point, but when talking about over reactive crap they are just the steerage passengers.

Edited December 30, 2016 by SwampD

[Randall Flagg]

I love how the HF boards are Word when used to prove a point, but when talking about over reactive crap they are just the steerage passengers.

Yes, the posters in the main boards  threads with Maple Leaf avatars claiming to know everything about Ristolainen and animatedly discussing why he sucks and can't hold Reilly's jock are the same as going to a Penguins board and hearing what their moderators and other posters have to say about a coach they watched for years and years. 

 

You're absolutely on fire, Swamp. Really hot.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Randall Flagg

[SwampD]

They weren't different like Sutter's system is different from Jon Cooper's. They weren't Carlyle versus Quenneville different. I can't confess to watching hockey in 1999, but the videos and descriptions I've had access to via the internet over the years can tell some things. His defensemen were way more active in the rush and we relied a lot more on transition play in 2005-07, when compared to later when Rivet/Montador was often half of our top 4. No way he had his guys doing that stuff in 99, there wasn't nearly enough talent. People I've talked to remember a lot of patiently waiting in the defensive zone for the other team to get frustrated trying to beat Hasek, and then scoring once or twice on an odd-man rush to get the win. 

 

There are some aspects that were constant during my time watching Lindy's teams, which included a very limited amount of point pressure in the d-zone which led to a huge amount of point shot goals, which (IMO) gave Miller the reputation for letting in softies from the point when in reality we just allowed a lot of easy screen shots to get all the way to the goalie. 

 

I don't bring Lindy up as a "wow this guy is perfect and exactly what we need" head coach example, because he was obviously flawed. I don't want him back. I just think he's an example of a coach not being rigid that we can all immediately think about. Other examples from other teams are a lot less-likely to be detailed and correct, because nobody here watches every team every game for years like we did with Lindy. 

 

And if you go to the Penguins board on hfboards and ask them to describe how Bylsma coached in Pittsburgh, they'll refer you to the thread(s) where Sabres fans have already done this in the past. Then you read through them and find the exact same things that a bunch of us bitch about here, starting with the full implementation of his system in the season following the cup run, during which he used a slightly modified version of Therrien's 2-3 with a finally healthy Gonchar. And then they talk about how stubborn and unwilling to change he is, regardless of the pieces on the roster. And here we are today. He does the same stuff he always has and that's not going to change, and we won't see a meaningful increase in even strength scoring because of it, and we will again be out of the playoff chase before March comes. Unless he tweaks things up a bit, which is possible, but there's no evidence to show that he's willing to do it.

 

Just so you know, I disagree on your takes of what you think Lindy's teams looked like. I watched them. They were way more Alamode mode most of the time which occasionally led to an odd rush breakaway that they took advantage of. He relied heavily on an elite goaltender (yes, PA, Miller was elite at times). But getting out of our own zone was pain at times (most of the time). We were the farthest thing from a possession team.

[Randall Flagg]

Just so you know, I disagree on your takes of what you think Lindy's teams looked like. I watched them. They were way more Alamode mode most of the time which occasionally led to an odd rush breakaway that they took advantage of. He relied heavily on an elite goaltender (yes, PA, Miller was elite at times). But getting out of our own zone was pain at times (most of the time). We were the farthest thing from a possession team.

Well I don't really think Lindy was great and don't want him back and am not trying to romanticize anything. I never said he was a possession coach either - he feasted with our team's transition ability in 05-07, not its possession ability.

 

He just coached differently when he had different pieces. He had some level of awareness of what his players were good and bad at. That is my point. Bylsma will coach this way until it runs him out of the NHL for good.

 

Edit: I'm not sure we disagree about Lindy at all. Didn't I mention the bold almost word for word?

Edited December 30, 2016 by Randall Flagg

[TrueBlueGED]

Well I don't really think Lindy was great and don't want him back and am not trying to romanticize anything. I never said he was a possession coach either - he feasted with our team's transition ability in 05-07, not its possession ability.

 

He just coached differently when he had different pieces. He had some level of awareness of what his players were good and bad at. That is my point. Bylsma will coach this way until it runs him out of the NHL for good.

 

 

 

They were basically like the Rangers this year. Not identical, but a similar build and approach.

[SwampD]

Well I don't really think Lindy was great and don't want him back and am not trying to romanticize anything. I never said he was a possession coach either - he feasted with our team's transition ability in 05-07, not its possession ability.

He just coached differently when he had different pieces. He had some level of awareness of what his players were good and bad at. That is my point. Bylsma will coach this way until it runs him out of the NHL for good.

 

Until someone gives me an Xs and Os with names attached alternative to what Dan is doing, it just comes across as some whiny garbage. I just think we are still too young and not quite good enough talent wise to be complaining about the coach every loss,

 

Tonight was a good game. We lost.

[Randall Flagg]

Until someone gives me an Xs and Os with names attached alternative to what Dan is doing, it just comes across as some whiny garbage.

Swamp, if the posts I and many others have made, with hours of work put into them, are whiny garbage, then you completely ignoring them when they happen, grossly misrepresenting points posters make (like the silly hfboards thing I just shot down) and sticking to "whiny babies" arguments is a level of debate so low there aren't words to describe it. 

[TrueBlueGED]

Until someone gives me an Xs and Os with names attached alternative to what Dan is doing, it just comes across as some whiny garbage. I just think we are still too young and not quite good enough talent wise to be complaining about the coach every loss,

 

Tonight was a good game. We lost.

 

This is the message board equivalent of "I know you are but what am I?"

[dudacek]

The hockey world going in to the season thought we were the team we have shown this year.

We thought we we were better than that.

 

Almost every team that makes a dramatic jump in the standings one year (27 points!) regresses or plateaus the following year.

We thought we were going to avoid that.

 

Maybe we were wrong.

[SwampD]

Swamp, if the posts I and many others have made, with hours of work put into them, are whiny garbage, then you completely ignoring them when they happen, grossly misrepresenting points posters make (like the silly hfboards thing I just shot down) and sticking to "whiny babies" arguments is a level of debate so low there aren't words to describe it.

 

Everyone ignores things that don't support their argument. Where is Claude V with some sort of Haidtian sports equivalent?

[Randall Flagg]

Everyone ignores things that don't support their argument. Where is Claude V with some sort of Haidtian sports equivalent?

Like what, your hfboards point? Casting an equivalence between Pens fans telling us their experience with a member of their franchise for 5 years and 5 year old analytics thumpers who abandoned watching games for them years ago and who stick their noses up at the players on their rival teams? 

 

I mean, come contest the points.

 

Tell us that Bylsma didn't maintain Therrien's system with minor tweaks, but using his 2-3 forecheck and activated defensemen with help for his d-man in case the stretch didn't work. Tell us that, unlike what we've learned and discussed, they didn't either left-wing-locked up or did a passive 1-2-2 as soon as he was able to implement his system design for the 09-10 season. That he didn't use stretch passes as his main form of puck movement with no neutral zone puck support and no movement as a team the way every single possession team comes in and rams hockey down our throats with.

 

Tell us that we aren't seeing this exact same thing here six years later. Tell us that 90% of our rushes don't involve either a stretch pass chip in to forwards who are standing still because the perfect play wasn't available at first, and so they had to stop to avoid going offside, or a one-man-show with guys standing at the line waiting for that one man to dance through and then turn the puck over. Tell us that this is what all struggling teams with no talent do, like Peters and the Hurricanes or Babcock and the Maple Leafs, give those examples, show us that they struggle with this stuff too.

 

Show us that our top 5 power play is a mirage and doesn't indicate a talented team, and so there isn't talent being stifled as one of the worst non-tanking 5v5 teams to play in recent NHL history. Struggling young teams and all. That this Sabres team is the youngest and most injured of all those struggling young teams and that this is why those numbers are that bad. Come take those points and shove them in our faces so that we can learn and be more informed and stop bugging you so much with our cries to fire Bylsma. Please.

 

Edit: Didn't realize I had typed that much

Edited December 30, 2016 by Randall Flagg

[SwampD]

Like what, your hfboards point? Casting an equivalence between Pens fans telling us their experience with a member of their franchise for 5 years and 5 year old analytics thumpers who abandoned watching games for them years ago and who stick their noses up at the players on their rival teams? 

 

I mean, come contest the points. Tell us that Bylsma didn't maintain Therrien's system with minor tweaks, but using his 2-3 forecheck and activated defensemen with help for his d-man in case the stretch didn't work. Tell us that, unlike what we've learned and discussed, they didn't either left-wing-locked up or did a passive 1-2-2 as soon as he was able to implement his system design for the 09-10 season. That he didn't use stretch passes as his main form of puck movement with no neutral zone puck support and no movement as a team the way every single possession team comes in and rams hockey down our throats with. Tell us that we aren't seeing this exact same thing here six years later. Tell us that 90% of our rushes don't involve either a stretch pass chip in to forwards who are standing still because the perfect play wasn't available at first, and so they had to stop to avoid going offside, or a one-man-show with guys standing at the line waiting for that one man to dance through and then turn the puck over. Tell us that this is what all struggling teams with no talent do, like Peters and the Hurricanes or Babcock and the Maple Leafs, give those examples, show us that they struggle with this stuff too. Show us that our top 5 power play is a mirage and doesn't indicate a talented team, and so there isn't talent being stifled as one of the worst non-tanking 5v5 teams to play in recent NHL history. Struggling young teams and all. That this Sabres team is the youngest and most injured of all those struggling young teams and that this is why those numbers are that bad. Come take those points and shove them in our faces so that we can learn and be more informed and stop bugging you so much with our cries to fire Bylsma. Please.

I disagree with this entire post.

 

I didn't read it,... but I'm against it, to be sure.

[TrueBlueGED]

I disagree with this entire post.

 

I didn't read it,... but I'm against it, to be sure.

 

I, too, am against the boycott of the enter key :p

[WildCard]

I disagree with this entire post.

 

I didn't read it,... but I'm against it, to be sure.

Hahaha :lol:

[SwampD]

Even with the edit I disagree.

 

Still didn't read it, but sometimes you just know.

[TrueBlueGED]

 

Edit: Didn't realize I had typed that much

 

Honestly, I'm not sure the team deserves paragraphs.

[Stoner]

The hockey world going in to the season thought we were the team we have shown this year.

We thought we we were better than that.

 

Almost every team that makes a dramatic jump in the standings one year (27 points!) regresses or plateaus the following year.

We thought we were going to avoid that.

 

Maybe we were wrong.

I pounded this point last year. The 2015-2016 Sabres were not an improved version of the 2014-2015 team. They were both NHL teams, that's about the only comparison. So the 27-point improvement credited to the 2015-2016 was an illusion. It was perfectly reasonable to think this year's team would be better than last year's.

 

I, too, am against the boycott of the enter key :P

I do the big old block of text sometimes to weed out the slacker readers. It assigns more weight to the feedback.

[woods-racer]

Randall has me addicted, I'm reading every word.

 

The more snarky someone gets with him the more he digs and studies to give an even better informed post the next go around.

 

A pizzed of Randall has been some dam fine reading.

[darksabre]

Randall has me addicted, I'm reading every word.

 

The more snarky someone gets with him the more he digs and studies to give an even better informed post the next go around.

 

A pizzed of Randall has been some dam fine reading.

Agreed. He's providing some of the better hockey talk on this board right now. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Just so you know, I disagree on your takes of what you think Lindy's teams looked like. I watched them. They were way more Alamode mode most of the time which occasionally led to an odd rush breakaway that they took advantage of. He relied heavily on an elite goaltender (yes, PA, Miller was elite at times). But getting out of our own zone was pain at times (most of the time). We were the farthest thing from a possession team.

 

To say nothing of the Hasek era, except for 1998/9.  That was a good, but mostly hard working team that had Hasek in 'all world' mode.

[nfreeman]

I pounded this point last year. The 2015-2016 Sabres were not an improved version of the 2014-2015 team. They were both NHL teams, that's about the only comparison. So the 27-point improvement credited to the 2015-2016 was an illusion. It was perfectly reasonable to think this year's team would be better than last year's.

 

I do the big old block of text sometimes to weed out the slacker readers. It assigns more weight to the feedback.

 

Correct, but not for the reason you posted.

 

Aren't I clever?

[dudacek]

I pounded this point last year. The 2015-2016 Sabres were not an improved version of the 2014-2015 team. They were both NHL teams, that's about the only comparison. So the 27-point improvement credited to the 2015-2016 was an illusion. It was perfectly reasonable to think this year's team would be better than last year's.

Wouldn't you think every team that made that kind of improvement did it with a similar kind of roster turnover?

[Stoner]

Wouldn't you think every team that made that kind of improvement did it with a similar kind of roster turnover?

Not sure. But this might be a fun read (there's a Taro name drop). http://pucksandrecreation.com/top-10-single-season-turnarounds/