Are today's shootouts a bad omen for the future?

[That Aud Smell]

Breakaways aren't as easy as you think, regardless of talent, against an equally talented goalie who is focused solely on you. Even the best players are only hitting maybe 50%. 

 

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/NHL_2016_skaters-shootout.html

 

That number seems about right. And, of course, when you think about being awarded a penalty shot, you'd want that 50% chance in favour a peeper that hits at ~20+% if it's going well.

 

Problem: They practice shootouts on Lehner and they then think they're good at it.

 

I laughed.

[Doohicksie]

?

 

I mean, if he does conduct shootout drills, you would never know based on results to date.

I wish we wouldn't play to grind out close games when we haven't been able to finish them, though. 8 losses in OT or the shootout 31 games in is absolutely absurd.

 

This is the answer.  Win in regulation.  Learn to protect a lead, fer cryin' out loud.

[darksabre]

I mean, if he does conduct shootout drills, you would never know based on results to date.

 

This is the answer.  Win in regulation.  Learn to protect a lead, fer cryin' out loud.

Ah, got ya.

 

I'm of the mind that if one part of your game really needs work, the rest of your game suffers both directly and indirectly because of it. If we're getting our handed to us as a team in shootouts, then that is likely carrying over to other parts of the team game. I don't particularly care about shootout losses, but I do care about what it says when I try to read between the lines. 

 

Everything this team does is risk averse. 

[Randall Flagg]

Ah, got ya.

 

I'm of the mind that if one part of your game really needs work, the rest of your game suffers both directly and indirectly because of it. If we're getting our ###### handed to us as a team in shootouts, then that is likely carrying over to other parts of the team game. I don't particularly care about shootout losses, but I do care about what it says when I try to read between the lines. 

 

Everything this team does is risk averse. 

But if you take risks, you might allow 4 goals to the Senators, or 3 to the Rangers, or 3 to the Kings. :angel:

 

Better to grind out those loser points, chip the puck out, have Risto and ROR dead by game 50, ya know.

[dudacek]

 

Everything this team does is risk averse.

 

This.

And this is why Dan gets fired.

It's not the way Tim Murray does business, or sees the game.

[Doohicksie]

This.

And this is why Dan gets fired.

It's not the way Tim Murray does business, or sees the game.

 

Yes.  DD would have been a better coach for Darcy.

[Iron Crotch]

We have 8 overtime losses, which is the most in the NHL.  Had we won half of those, we'd be one point out of a playoff spot with three games at hand on the Bruins.  The NHL got what it wanted with all the teams being bunched in a pack (minus a few really good or really bad teams). Shootouts can be a major determinant of playoffs versus not. And, it is a pretty big deal to keep losing shootouts, especially against divisional opponents. It's to the point where I don't think it is a terrible idea to keep a shootout specialist around as a 12th forward (e.g., a Kotalik type).

 

 

[darksabre]

Yes. DD would have been a better coach for Darcy.

That combo makes me want to vomit.

[WildCard]

Problem: They practice shootouts on Lehner and they then think they're good at it.

Well played :lol:

This.

And this is why Dan gets fired.

It's not the way Tim Murray does business, or sees the game.

Which is why we love Murray and hate Dan

[Randall Flagg]

We have 8 overtime losses, which is the most in the NHL.  Had we won half of those, we'd be one point out of a playoff spot with three games at hand on the Bruins.  The NHL got what it wanted with all the teams being bunched in a pack (minus a few really good or really bad teams). Shootouts can be a major determinant of playoffs versus not. And, it is a pretty big deal to keep losing shootouts, especially against divisional opponents. It's to the point where I don't think it is a terrible idea to keep a shootout specialist around as a 12th forward (e.g., a Kotalik type).

To be fair, asking to win half of those doesn't take into account the ones we've won. You're technically asking us to be 7-4, not just .500. If we were average in these, we'd still be ~3 points out. 

 

Regardless of this incredibly obnoxious nitpick, I agree with your post. And I think Moulson is that guy. I hate shootouts a lot but while they're around we need to figure them out.

 

How does KO go from lights out in the shootout to not scoring a goal in five or six attempts? 

[Samson's Flow]

Yes.  DD would have been a better coach for Darcy.

If you recall Lindy Ruff was a very aggressive coach and had the defensemen highly active in the offensive zone. It was fun to watch hockey back then.

[WildCard]

If you recall Lindy Ruff was a very aggressive coach and had the defensemen highly active in the offensive zone. It was fun to watch hockey back then.

It still is in Dallas. I want Lindy back

[PromoTheRobot]

The performance of our goalies in shootouts is alarming and something that should reflect badly on Tim Murray. Our goaltending during the tank years was far better.

[jsb]

I mean, if he does conduct shootout drills, you would never know based on results to date.

 

This is the answer.  Win in regulation.  Learn to protect a lead, fer cryin' out loud.

Yes it's DD's fault that his top 3 guys are 0'fer 9 in shootout attempts, Okposo-ROR-Eichel. Okposo was 5 for 10 last year and 0 for 5-6 this year, that is definitely the Coach's fault  :doh:

Yes.  DD would have been a better coach for Darcy.

 

If you recall Lindy Ruff was a very aggressive coach and had the defensemen highly active in the offensive zone. It was fun to watch hockey back then.

He also didn't have Gorges or Franson on his Dline's either

[Randall Flagg]

The performance of our goalies in shootouts is alarming and something that should reflect badly on Tim Murray. Our goaltending during the tank years was far better.

In the shootouts maybe, because Enroth was pretty good at them, but overall? I definitely believe we've gotten better goaltending the past two seasons

[PromoTheRobot]

In the shootouts maybe, because Enroth was pretty good at them, but overall? I definitely believe we've gotten better goaltending the past two seasons

That's a bit like saying a pilot is pretty good except for the landings. I think our parade of tank goalies were better overall. At least they were more effective than a garbage can in goal during shootouts.

Edited December 21, 2016 by PromoTheRobot

[Samson's Flow]

Yes it's DD's fault that his top 3 guys are 0'fer 9 in shootout attempts, Okposo-ROR-Eichel. Okposo was 5 for 10 last year and 0 for 5-6 this year, that is definitely the Coach's fault  :doh:

 

He also didn't have Gorges or Franson on his Dline's either

Lindy Ruff would have stick whacked the Franson-pylon straight off the practice ice.

[Randall Flagg]

That's a bit like saying a pilot is pretty good except for the landings. I think our parade of tank goalies were better overall. At least they were more effective than a garbage can in goal during shootouts.

Shootouts happen to end every single game? That's weird, I've been turning my games off early for years then.

 

Those goalies looked like they played out of their minds because we regularly allowed 50 shots on goal (and goalie save percentage is higher for everyone from Price and Lundqvist to Lehtonen and Niemi when facing more shots in a game) but still posted lower save percentages and higher GAA (this is more the team than them) than the group of Lehner/Chad/Nilsson. 

 

If Lehner's shootout losses this season drag him down below those guys despite his better stats in every other game area, why don't Neuvirth/Enroth's 500 regulation losses do the same for them?

[That Aud Smell]

Lindy Ruff would have stick whacked the Franson-pylon straight off the practice ice.

 

The LindyWhack belongs in the board's glossary.

[dudacek]

The performance of our goalies in shootouts is alarming and something that should reflect badly on Tim Murray.

 

Not disagreeing with this at all, but the ability of many to overlook Lehner's play in regulation is amazing.

Nine out of 10 games he plays well and very little is said about his performance.

The tenth game, the shakey one, gets more comment than the other nine combined.

 

Without the way Lehner played in the first there is no way we get even a sniff of OT in Florida.

 

That's a bit like saying a pilot is pretty good except for the landings. I think our parade of tank goalies were better overall. At least they were more effective than a garbage can in goal during shootouts.

I think it's been pretty well established that the "Nolan system" was good for giving goalies good save percentages and opportunities to make the spectacular save. Where, exactly are Jhonas Enroth and Anders Lindback now? Edited December 21, 2016 by dudacek

[Taro T]

Problem: They practice shootouts on Lehner and they then think they're good at it.

Or conversely: Lehner faces these guys in practice & does pretty well. ;)

 

(Which he has stated in at least 1 interview earlier this year.)

[That Aud Smell]

Is this about the time when someone mentions "small sample size"?

 

Have the Sabres just been unlucky?

[RonHextallsShoulderPads]

we just need to install new tactics:

 

[That Aud Smell]

I see those highlights nowadays, and can't recall: Did that sort of stuff become illegal?

 

Like, they made the tie-down rule for Ray, and they made a no wipe-out rule for Hasek?

Oh wait - it WAS illegal in the clip. Lots of times, though - it wasn't. Yeah?

[darksabre]

I see those highlights nowadays, and can't recall: Did that sort of stuff become illegal?

 

Like, they made the tie-down rule for Ray, and they made a no wipe-out rule for Hasek?

Oh wait - it WAS illegal in the clip. Lots of times, though - it wasn't. Yeah?

I still don't understand why no one ever went after Hasek for that stuff. It was DANGEROUS. I would have gone nuts if he submarined me like that.