Re-sign Gionta?

[pi2000]

    

 

 

Aren't Larsson and Foligno younger then ROR, why don't they still have upside like ROR?

 

Anyway my general rule of thumb works with pretty much every top 3 line Sabres forward not on a ELC or young RFA.

 

Ennis averaged nearly 45 pts in the 2 seasons before he signed his current deal @ 4.6 per season

Okposo averaged 61 pts in the 3 seasons before signing his deal @ 6.0 per season.

ROR averaged 60 pts in the 2 prior seasons before inking his 7.5 per season deal. The added was for his 2 way play.

Moulson scored 51 pts in his vagabond season and averaged 54 in the 3 season prior to inking his $5.0 per season deal.

Foligno averaged 21 pts in the last 3 seasons and earns $2.25

Kane scored 57 in the season before Wpg gave him the $5.25 per season deal.

Gionta earns 4.25 in his deal with the Sabres. Here are his last 5 seasons in Montreal before signing here. 46 pts, 46 pts, 15 pts in 31 games (40 pts pace), 26 pts in 48 games (a 44 pt pace) and 40 pts. That's over 43 pts per season for the 5 years and over 41 pts per full season in the 3 years before signing here.

 

I'd say my rule of thumb works pretty good.

 

Larsson and Foligno have shown very very little offensive ability.    ROR has shown flashes of brilliance, his issue is just trying to find consistency game to game... that's the most difficult thing to learn as a young player.   It can take into their late 20's to figure it out.    If ROR gains more consistency, then I expect his numbers to improve.    Larsson and Foligno are consistently decent, serviceable 3rd-4th line players.

 

With the evidence you've provided you're rule of thumb looks spot on, we'll put.    That said, if that's the simple formula GMTM is  using to pay his players... we're in trouble!

[TrueBlueGED]

True has done the work on this before, a players prime is way sooner than you think. IIRC it's 25-28 or something

If by "done the work" you mean "relayed the work of others" then yes, yes I have :lol:

 

Players usually peak offensively by 23-24, plateau for 5-6 years, then decline around 30. Elite offensive players usually hold their plateau longer, and some don't peak until their late 20s, but it's more likely that O'Reilly is a 60 point player than he is a 70 point player who has yet to peak. After all, it's not like he just broke into the league two years ago, he's been an NHLer since he was 18.

[7+6=13]

Larsson and Foligno have shown very very little offensive ability.    ROR has shown flashes of brilliance, his issue is just trying to find consistency game to game... that's the most difficult thing to learn as a young player.   It can take into their late 20's to figure it out.    If ROR gains more consistency, then I expect his numbers to improve.    Larsson and Foligno are consistently decent, serviceable 3rd-4th line players.

 

With the evidence you've provided you're rule of thumb looks spot on, we'll put.    That said, if that's the simple formula GMTM is  using to pay his players... we're in trouble!

 

I'd argue ROR has been our most consistent and reliable player.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Larsson and Foligno have shown very very little offensive ability.    ROR has shown flashes of brilliance, his issue is just trying to find consistency game to game... that's the most difficult thing to learn as a young player.   It can take into their late 20's to figure it out.    If ROR gains more consistency, then I expect his numbers to improve.    Larsson and Foligno are consistently decent, serviceable 3rd-4th line players.

 

With the evidence you've provided you're rule of thumb looks spot on, we'll put.    That said, if that's the simple formula GMTM is  using to pay his players... we're in trouble!

I think you are selling Larsson short (no this isn't a pun on his height).  If put him with guys like Okposo and Kane, you'll see a 40 pt scorer or more.  His problem is that he is caught behind, Jack, ROR and even Reinhart at center in Buffalo and that is good for the franchise.

 

One other note on Gio, in his 2 plus seasons in Buffalo, Gio has scored 35 pts, 33 pts and now is on a pace for nearly 40.  Age is certainly a factor in re-signing him, but $3 mill for him doesn't seem out of line for his production.  

[pi2000]

I think you are selling Larsson short (no this isn't a pun on his height). If put him with guys like Okposo and Kane, you'll see a 40 pt scorer or more. His problem is that he is caught behind, Jack, ROR and even Reinhart at center in Buffalo and that is good for the franchise.

 

One other note on Gio, in his 2 plus seasons in Buffalo, Gio has scored 35 pts, 33 pts and now is on a pace for nearly 40. Age is certainly a factor in re-signing him, but $3 mill for him doesn't seem out of line for his production.

Larsson is a very good defensive player, he also excels on the forcheck. He can't shoot the puck to save his life, nor is he a setup guy. He's fine as a future 4th liner, but unless his shot and offensive awareness improve drastically, I don't see him as a contributor on this team offensively. How many more times is he going to fire high and wide or hit the post on a point blank opportunity, he has no finishability.

 

Gionta is still contributing some offense now and then. The problem with a guy his size is that unless he's a significant piece of your offensive puzzle, he's a liability. I'd rather pay $3m to a younger faster more physical specimin who can give you 30 points.

[Guest]

In honor of Gio's 1000 game, with another failed season nearly in the books and some questions about the progress of the kids, will we be re-signing Gio?

Edited March 28, 2017 by yse325

[Randall Flagg]

In honor of Gio's 1000 game, with another failed season nearly in the books and some questions about the progress of the kids, will we be re-signing Gio?

I'd rather not, he's pretty old and his ES scoring has dropped off a cliff recently.

[IKnowPhysics]

Resign Gio to reasonable one year contracts from here on out.  Let him keep the C for as long as he's around (<3 years)... then give it to Eichel, who will have earned it by the time Gio retires.

[Guest]

I'd rather not, he's pretty old and his ES scoring has dropped off a cliff recently.

I'd like to bring in a 4th line center who can win draws instead. Someone who can take some of the burden off ROR

Edited March 28, 2017 by yse325

[Randall Flagg]

I'd like to bring in a 4th line center who can win draws.

And play something that even closely resembles hockey at even strength haha

[will]

I can't help but giggle about that painting of game 1000, a game he's on home ice for, yet wearing road white sweater in the picture. Very well thought out. Hell, why not pay the artist to have two ready to go? Like Terry can't afford that?

 

Edit: re-sign one year deals for the duration of his effectiveness.

Edited March 28, 2017 by will

[Guest]

I can't help but giggle about that painting of game 1000, a game he's on home ice for, yet wearing road white sweater in the picture. Very well thought out. Hell, why not pay the artist to have two ready to go? Like Terry can't afford that?

I noticed that also. You'd think would have noticed.

[Robviously]

He's the one veteran UFA I'd love to see back next year.  We're still in good shape with the cap for next season so a 1-year contract is perfect.  In the meantime, we can clear out other forwards that aren't part of the longterm plan to make room for younger forwards next year.

[That Aud Smell]

Resign Gio to reasonable one year contracts from here on out.  Let him keep the C for as long as he's around (<3 years)... then give it to Eichel, who will have earned it by the time Gio retires.

 

Agreed.

 

And, man: Remember when it was, at least for some (including me!), not really a debate as to whether O'Reilly or Eichel should be the next captain? (I.e., that it should be O'Reilly because ... because of his grit and beard (?).)

 

If Eichel isn't the next captain (after Gionta), I'll eat my hat.

[TrueBlueGED]

My opinion on Gionta hasn't changed: one year deal at a reduced salary.

[Eleven]

My opinion on Gionta hasn't changed: one year deal at a reduced salary.

 

Yep.

[darksabre]

My opinion on Gionta hasn't changed: one year deal at a reduced salary.

Same. And I think he'll take it in order to avoid moving. 

[Huckleberry]

As a 4th line player making less than 2 mill, the kids still have to prove they belong and be more productive than him.

[ubkev]

Same. And I think he'll take it in order to avoid moving.

If this isn't the biggest indictment of the entire process of moving, then I don't know what is. Moving sucks. Sign Gionta. He'll put up 10g w/ 13a next year. That'll be fine on a one year deal.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I still say yes.  Even more loudly than when this question was first posed.

 

He still brings it and he has been a terrific captain for this rather rudderless ship over these last three seasons.

 

I would bring him back on automatic renewing 1 year deals for as long as he wants to play.  And let him keep the C until he retires ... depending when that is the C would go to either ROR, or Eich ... if ROR is C then an A to Eich and Samson (and if a third A is allowed ... Risto ... maybe rotate the 2nd A between Samson and Risto).  If Eich becomes C when Gio retires than the permanent A would go to ROR and the rotating A would be split between Samson and Risto.

[LTS]

Next year he's a 4th line player... and that's a good thing.  So yes, bring him back.

[Drunkard]

Next year he's a 4th line player... and that's a good thing.  So yes, bring him back.

 

DB may not see it that way though given his love for pairs. I'm fuzzy on who Gionta's usual pairing buddy is though. For a long while he was on a line with Larsson and Foligno but Larsson got hurt and Foligno was promoted to the Eichel line. He seems to be paired with Kane a lot and if that sticks there's no way they go to the 4th line.

 

I'd like to think he'd move Reinhart to the 3rd line and play him with Kane, leaving Larsson and Gionta on the 4th line but I don't have any faith in that happening, especially the idea of moving Reinhart to center.

 

I guess we'll see what happens though. If this heroic run to 10th picks up steam, we'll probably be stuck with DB again next season.

[Randall Flagg]

Gionta now has 4 even strength points in his last 26 games. 

I love Brian for how hard he's played and how well he's represented the Sabres. I love that he was willing to come here and be a leadership presence on a team that was set to lose on purpose. I love that he wished to stay over going somewhere to try and win a cup. 

We are now entering another critical season in the rebuild, after falling flat on our faces during the first critical season. Our reasons for failure are argued by many, but everyone can look at spreadsheets and charts and agree on a few points: we allow a lot of shots, we have a bad PK, we have trouble possessing the puck at even strength. We also have a slow, lumbering 4th line almost all of the time. A 4th line that gets shelled, just like the 4th lines we've employed since the co-captains left.

 

It is tremendously important that we upgrade defense this offseason. We also need to finish the changing of the guard, from the old tankers to the young, fresh legs. Gionta's possession numbers are already almost -3% relative to the team, which is terrible at possession hockey in the first place. He's turning 39 years old. I'm tired of our 4th line getting shelled. I want to bring in guys like ERod, and a vet that can take faceoffs and flip the ice, like Matt Cullen showed he could do last season in Pittsburgh. We need this to happen to fix the glaring flaw, the main reason this team is out of the playoffs. It is so important for this to happen next season, because it's the last time we get Jack for cheap. Unfortunately, there isn't room for a 39 year old Gionta on a team like this, in my opinion. His PK skills have deteriorated - as has been pointed out, he often sits at the hash marks when the puck quickly moves to the point on his side, because he knows he will not be able to make it out in time to press the guy, and it gives the other team an acre and a half of free ice to work in. 

 

Put the C on the man that is your franchise, and let Gionta retire, treat him nicely, and thank him for his services to this franchise. Brian, take your cup ring and all of your memories, and enjoy the hell out of your retirement.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Randall Flagg

[pi2000]

Gionta now has 4 even strength points in his last 26 games. 

 

I love Brian for how hard he's played and how well he's represented the Sabres. I love that he was willing to come here and be a leadership presence on a team that was set to lose on purpose. I love that he wished to stay over going somewhere to try and win a cup. 

 

We are now entering another critical season in the rebuild, after falling flat on our faces during the first critical season. Our reasons for failure are argued by many, but everyone can look at spreadsheets and charts and agree on a few points: we allow a lot of shots, we have a bad PK, we have trouble possessing the puck at even strength. We also have a slow, lumbering 4th line almost all of the time. A 4th line that gets shelled, just like the 4th lines we've employed since the co-captains left.

 

It is tremendously important that we upgrade defense this offseason. We also need to finish the changing of the guard, from the old tankers to the young, fresh legs. Gionta's possession numbers are already almost -3% relative to the team, which is terrible at possession hockey in the first place. He's turning 39 years old. I'm tired of our 4th line getting shelled. I want to bring in guys like ERod, and a vet that can take faceoffs and flip the ice, like Matt Cullen showed he could do last season in Pittsburgh. We need this to happen to fix the glaring flaw, the main reason this team is out of the playoffs. It is so important for this to happen next season, because it's the last time we get Jack for cheap. Unfortunately, there isn't room for a 39 year old Gionta on a team like this, in my opinion. His PK skills have deteriorated - as has been pointed out, he often sits at the hash marks when the puck quickly moves to the point on his side, because he knows he will not be able to make it out in time to press the guy, and it gives the other team an acre and a half of free ice to work in. 

 

Put the C on the man that is your franchise, and let Gionta retire, treat him nicely, and thank him for his services to this franchise. Brian, take your cup ring and all of your memories, and enjoy the hell out of your retirement.

 

 

I agree 100%.

 

It doesn't matter if you can sign him for $1, it's time to move on.    Bylsma wants to play a north south speed game with big bodies crashing down hard on the forecheck.   Gionta is a nice guy, he put up some great offensive numbers in his prime, but he doesn't fit the type of game they're trying to play.

 

Sure it's a nice story, a WNY native comes back home to lead his team to the playoffs... but let's be real here, he isn't leading them anywhere.    Where was his leadership when this team came off the break and dropped two straight to COL and ARI?   IMO a big reason this team faltered was because of a leadership void.    They desperately needed somebody to call guys out in the locker room and on the bench, hold guys accountable, etc... to prevent them from laying eggs against bottom feeders when you're making a late push for a playoff spot.    Gionta (and Gorges) were supposed to be guys to keep everyone in line, but IMO they failed.   

[WildCard]

I agree 100%.

 

It doesn't matter if you can sign him for $1, it's time to move on.    Bylsma wants to play a north south speed game with big bodies crashing down hard on the forecheck.   Gionta is a nice guy, he put up some great offensive numbers in his prime, but he doesn't fit the type of game they're trying to play.

 

Sure it's a nice story, a WNY native comes back home to lead his team to the playoffs... but let's be real here, he isn't leading them anywhere.    Where was his leadership when this team came off the break and dropped two straight to COL and ARI?   IMO a big reason this team faltered was because of a leadership void.    They desperately needed somebody to call guys out in the locker room and on the bench, hold guys accountable, etc... to prevent them from laying eggs against bottom feeders when you're making a late push for a playoff spot.    Gionta (and Gorges) were supposed to be guys to keep everyone in line, but IMO they failed.   

Why oh why would we ever form a roster around a coach that clearly has a year left at best?

 

You mean like a head coach?

Edited March 28, 2017 by WildCard