Jack Eichel Perimeter Scorer?

[GASabresIUFAN]

I am not taking a cheap shot at Jack.  He might be the most talented forward to ever suit up for the Sabres and that is saying alot, considering, LaFontaine, Perreault, Hawerchuk, Martin, Mogilny and Turgeon all played for us.  

 

Jack has great speed, is a excellent stickhandler, has vision and a wicked wrist shot, and we saw much of that on display last night. Last night's performance made me think of how Jack scores his goals.  Jack has scored 29 goals in his first 89 NHL games and he will improve from here.  When you think about those goals, how many do you remember from the "dirty areas?"  How many off tip ins, how many off rebounds? Off hand, I can't think of any, although I'm sure there is a rebound or two in the 29.  They all seem to be from around the faceoff circle or above with his wicked shot.  The second goal last night was the perfect example of a Jack goal.  He took the puck up the boards, used his hands and speed to find an open area and release a bomb of a shot to the top corner of the net.  

 

Contrast that to Sam Reinhart, who seems to score all his goals on tip ins or rebounds around the net.  

 

Granted they play different roles on the team (especially on the PP), but how dangerous can Jack become if he starts to get some goals in those dirty areas?  Could he become a 40-50 goal scorer?

 

 

[Stoner]

Or if he ever learned to move his feet... sorry. I say this as someone who has watched hockey since 1975 and yet is in many ways completely ignorant about the sport, so take it either way: Please don't try to change this kid or this kid's game. It just seems like a very Buffalo take. Get yer nose dirty and score the ugly goals! Nuts to that. Teacher, leave them kids alone!

[PromoTheRobot]

The kid is a wizard at using lateral momentum to score. How many times do you see him drifting across the high slot when he shoots? That puck looks like it's heading wide when it leaves his stick but his momentum sideways moves it toward the net.

[Stoner]

The kid is a wizard at using lateral momentum to score. How many times do you see him drifting across the high slot when he shoots? That puck looks like it's heading wide when it leaves his stick but his momentum sideways moves it toward the net.

Like the second goal? I keep watching that one. If that's not magic, I don't know what magic is. The goalie was completely mesmerized by that move. Who scores with a shot along the ice from the blue line?

[qwksndmonster]

That second goal last night that the OP referred to was right in the slot.

[LGR4GM]

I don't think you want Jack tipping in goals because that means he isn't shooting the puck and he has the best shot on the team.

 

I agree he should crash the net more.

[Taro T]

I am not taking a cheap shot at Jack.  He might be the most talented forward to ever suit up for the Sabres and that is saying alot, considering, LaFontaine, Perreault, Hawerchuk, Martin, Mogilny and Turgeon all played for us.  

 

Jack has great speed, is a excellent stickhandler, has vision and a wicked wrist shot, and we saw much of that on display last night. Last night's performance made me think of how Jack scores his goals.  Jack has scored 29 goals in his first 89 NHL games and he will improve from here.  When you think about those goals, how many do you remember from the "dirty areas?"  How many off tip ins, how many off rebounds? Off hand, I can't think of any, although I'm sure there is a rebound or two in the 29.  They all seem to be from around the faceoff circle or above with his wicked shot.  The second goal last night was the perfect example of a Jack goal.  He took the puck up the boards, used his hands and speed to find an open area and release a bomb of a shot to the top corner of the net.  

 

Contrast that to Sam Reinhart, who seems to score all his goals on tip ins or rebounds around the net.  

 

Granted they play different roles on the team (especially on the PP), but how dangerous can Jack become if he starts to get some goals in those dirty areas?  Could he become a 40-50 goal scorer?

He's normally the one carrying the puck. He finds ways typically to get past / through at least 1 defender. When he's by himself he heads to the net (~40% of the time?), when he has a linemate or 2 goes to high slot or wide & then passes or shoots.

 

Thought most of the complaints about Reinhart setting up in front is because he can't get the opportunity to make the sort of set up plays that Eichel gets. Now, we want Eichel to set up in front? :huh: Who exactly is supposed to get him the puck there? Moulson? Kane? :wacko:

 

Eichel could be a 40 goal scorer doing exactly what he's doing. & almost definitely is a 30-35 goal scorer.

[sodbuster]

Could he become a 40-50 goal scorer?

I realize it's a small sample size, but he has 5 goals in 7 games this season. Maybe he already is a 40+ goal player.

[3putt]

Jack has the best retrieve skill of anyone on the team.  After the pass to Okposo didn't connect Jack stopped below the goal line and fed Kaner for the goal. He does that alot and generates offense for himself and linemates. I don't think people appreciate how "dirty" those areas are and Jack wins a lot of battles.  

[Radar]

His talent is unmistakable. Just let him be Jack.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

The most talented Sabre since *11*.

 

Just let him play, like they let Perreault play.

[inkman]

Or if he ever learned to move his feet... sorry. I say this as someone who has watched hockey since 1975 and yet is in many ways completely ignorant about the sport, so take it either way: Please don't try to change this kid or this kid's game. It just seems like a very Buffalo take. Get yer nose dirty and score the ugly goals! Nuts to that. Teacher, leave them kids alone!

All this

[mphs mike]

The most talented Sabre since *11*.

 

Just let him play, like they let Perreault play.

 

this times alot!

if you didnt get to watch Bert live growing up you may notunderstand. you dont want to ask someone like Bert or Jack to be phil esposito

[bunomatic]

this times alot!

if you didnt get to watch Bert live growing up you may notunderstand. you dont want to ask someone like Bert or Jack to be phil esposito

Eggsactly. Love this kids patience with the puck. Players just back right off and room opens up. No need to park in front.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Jack is going to continue to be Jack, but go watch Crosby.  Crosby can beat goalie with his shot, with his passing, but he also scores around the net.  I think crashing the net periodically will actually help Jack's development.  When Crosby does it, it usually draws defenders to him, creating open ice for his linemates and passing lanes.  When they fail to go with Crosby, he beats the goalie in close with his great hands.  I think Jack can have the same effect.  Reinhart, ROR and Okposo are gifted passers as well as scorers.  They can just as easily get Jack the puck in close as Jack can get them the puck with his slick passing.

 

Buno, I do agree with you that Jack scares most of the opposition when he gets the puck.  

Edited December 15, 2016 by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

I've always preached go-to-the-net hockey, but even more I've preached putting players in a position to do what they do best. (It's why I don't like how Bylsma uses Samson)

 

Jack is a rare player that can not only score from long range, he can also make the tough pass to the guy who is a better position than he is. Because of those skills, combined with his puck handling, he draws defenders and creates gaps.

 

Maybe he could score more by charging the paint once in a while, and maybe he should do it more often. But he doesn't have Jack Eichel getting him the puck. To me, focusing too much on that element of his game would squander his skills in an area where we need it more.

Edited December 15, 2016 by dudacek

[nucci]

I am not taking a cheap shot at Jack.  He might be the most talented forward to ever suit up for the Sabres and that is saying alot, considering, LaFontaine, Perreault, Hawerchuk, Martin, Mogilny and Turgeon all played for us.  

 

Jack has great speed, is a excellent stickhandler, has vision and a wicked wrist shot, and we saw much of that on display last night. Last night's performance made me think of how Jack scores his goals.  Jack has scored 29 goals in his first 89 NHL games and he will improve from here.  When you think about those goals, how many do you remember from the "dirty areas?"  How many off tip ins, how many off rebounds? Off hand, I can't think of any, although I'm sure there is a rebound or two in the 29.  They all seem to be from around the faceoff circle or above with his wicked shot.  The second goal last night was the perfect example of a Jack goal.  He took the puck up the boards, used his hands and speed to find an open area and release a bomb of a shot to the top corner of the net.  

 

Contrast that to Sam Reinhart, who seems to score all his goals on tip ins or rebounds around the net.  

 

Granted they play different roles on the team (especially on the PP), but how dangerous can Jack become if he starts to get some goals in those dirty areas?  Could he become a 40-50 goal scorer?

Nope

[nfreeman]

I've always preached go-to-the-net hockey, but even more I've preached putting players in a position to do what they do best. (It's why I don't like how Bylsma uses Samson)

 

Jack is a rare player that can not only score from long range, he can also make the tough pass to the guy who is a better position than he is. Because of those skills, combined with his puck handling, he draws defenders and creates gaps.

 

Maybe he could score more by charging the paint once in a while, and maybe he should do it more often. But he doesn't have Jack Eichel getting him the puck. To me, focusing too much on that element of his game would squander his skills in an area where we need it more.

 

I know there's more to it than just linemates, but putting Reino first with Eichel and then with ROR doesn't seem like it should handicap him.

 

What do you have in mind for him?

[inkman]

I want Jack skating face first into the crease every shift so some 6'6" cromagnan can cross check him in the face and slash at his ankles all shift. This would be the best use of his talents.:wallbash:

Edited December 15, 2016 by inkman

[sabills]

Or if he ever learned to move his feet... sorry. I say this as someone who has watched hockey since 1975 and yet is in many ways completely ignorant about the sport, so take it either way: Please don't try to change this kid or this kid's game. It just seems like a very Buffalo take. Get yer nose dirty and score the ugly goals! Nuts to that. Teacher, leave them kids alone!

[dudacek]

I know there's more to it than just linemates, but putting Reino first with Eichel and then with ROR doesn't seem like it should handicap him.

 

What do you have in mind for him?

It doesn't handicap him short-term. It probably pads his stats.

But it prevents him from developing his best game at the NHL level; instead of being a complementary guy, he can be a guy who makes his teammates better.

 

The best way I can describe that Sam is as a hub, a spider in the middle of a web. The game went through him on both ends of the ice. He took the big draws, handled and distributed the puck on the power play, sprang his wingers in transition and set them up for prime scoring chances in the offensive zone. He was either where the puck came from, or where it was going.

 

I get why Bylsma uses Sam the way he does. He's better at it than anyone else in the roster, and there's a guy named O'Reilly currently in Sams role. But I think we are squandering an opportunity to develop Sam into the best he can be. I said it earlier, he can be a Zetterberg or Toews and Bylsma is using him like a Matt MOulson or Brad Boyes. If he goes too far down that path I'm worried he can't go back.

 

I know there are a handful of us who watched Sam multiple times in junior but I don't think you're one of them. This is what I have in mind.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W6MkTNZ24X8

Edited December 15, 2016 by dudacek

[nfreeman]

It doesn't handicap him short-term. It probably pads his stats.

But it prevents him from developing his best game at the NHL level; instead of being a complementary guy, he can be a guy who makes his teammates better.

 

The best way I can describe that Sam is as a hub, a spider in the middle of a web. The game went through him on both ends of the ice. He took the big draws, handled and distributed the puck on the power play, sprang his wingers in transition and set them up for prime scoring chances in the offensive zone. He was either where the puck came from, or where it was going.

 

I get why Bylsma uses Sam the way he does. He's better at it than anyone else in the roster, and there's a guy named O'Reilly currently in Sams role. But I think we are squandering an opportunity to develop Sam into the best he can be. I said it earlier, he can be a Zetterberg or Toews and Bylsma is using him like a Matt MOulson or Brad Boyes. If he goes too far down that path I'm worried he can't go back.

 

I know there are a handful of us who watched Sam multiple times in junior but I don't think you're one of them. This is what I have in mind.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W6MkTNZ24X8

 

Interesting.  So you'd like to see, say, Reino centering Okposo and Kane at even strength and working the half-wall on the PP? 

 

I kinda think though that Reino had a number of opportunities at center while Jackie Boy was injured, and failed to deliver -- although to be fair there wasn't much in the way of scoring wingers for him to work with, since Kane and Ennis were also hurt and Zemgus and (to a lesser extent) Moulson just don't have much to give at this point.

 

You are right that I haven't watched the World Juniors.  One question about that experience though:  is that a tournament where defense tends to trail offense -- thus making it easier for offenses to flow and produce -- especially given the offensive talent on the rosters?  i.e. is offensive production at the WJ level perhaps not correlative to NHL production, given the (putative) disproportionately large gap between WJ defensive talent/defensive scheme/goaltending and those factors on the NHL level?

[dudacek]

It's definitely harder to play against NHL defences.

But the WJC is also the only place a junior is competing against players who will mostly be NHLers.

 

With such a small sample size it can't be the be-all and end-all, but there is a pretty significant corellation between players who produce well there and produce well in the NHL - at least a much better corellation than any other level I can think of outside the NHL.

 

I agree Sam didn't shine in his short stint at centre this year.

I think that supports my argument.

 

In order to be a good NHL centre, he needs to learn to be an NHL centre, just like Seguin and Thornton and Sedin (who actually may be the best comparable). He's not learning that playing Moulson to Jack's Tavares.

 

I'd be surprised if Murray doesn't agree with me.

He didn't have Sam at the top of his draft board because he thought he had potential to be a good sidekick.

[TrueBlueGED]

It's definitely harder to play against NHL defences.

But the WJC is also the only place a junior is competing against players who will mostly be NHLers.

 

With such a small sample size it can't be the be-all and end-all, but there is a pretty significant corellation between players who produce well there and produce well in the NHL - at least a much better corellation than any other level I can think of outside the NHL.

 

I agree Sam didn't shine in his short stint at centre this year.

I think that supports my argument.

 

In order to be a good NHL centre, he needs to learn to be an NHL centre, just like Seguin and Thornton and Sedin (who actually may be the best comparable). He's not learning that playing Moulson to Jack's Tavares.

 

I'd be surprised if Murray doesn't agree with me.

He didn't have Sam at the top of his draft board because he thought he had potential to be a good sidekick.

I love the Sedin comparison. No standout physical skill that will pop off the ice at you, but a sublime hockey brain. Took him, what, 4 years to hit his potential?

[pi2000]

When you have a kid as talented as Jack Eichel, you let him do what he does, you don't try to change the way he plays.    He's an artist, let him express himself through his craft.   

 

Patrick Kane is also a perimeter scorer, I don't think anybody has a problem with his game.