Sabres on pace for 3-4 more points by end of December than the 2014 team...Incomprehensible

[matter2003]

and completely inexcuseable...

 

We think this team has had injuries?  That team had near ZERO talent...through 36 games to the end of December that team had 31 points...

 

Currently through the first 36 games this year, this team is on pace for 34-35 points...

 

So they are 3-4 points better than the 2014 team which was made up of has beens, never were's and a few decent players?? A team that was among the worst in the history of the NHL??

 

That's what we waited for?  A team that has enough talent to make the playoffs to play down to this disgraceful level?

 

It is so maddening and frustrating to see this team underachieve so badly and everyone wants to use Eichel being out as an excuse...

 

It's not. They still had better talent even without Eichel than to be where they are now.  

 

It's a coaching failure, its a player failure and they need to get it turned around fast.  

 

It is embarrassing to even be mentioned in the same breath as that team, but that's what they find themselves looking at...

Edited December 13, 2016 by matter2003

[beerme1]

Derek Grant. And that  team from back then had a coach lol.

[Randall Flagg]

We had this conversation last year, too - and were 17-22-something. While I'm not thrilled with the state of the team, this one isn't going 0-for-January like that one did, or lose 14 straight overall. (Was it 12?) We'll probably go on a little run at some point and finish in the low 80s point range again (which isn't good enough, but isn't a tank team by ~30 points)

[Stoner]

We had this conversation last year, too - and were 17-22-something. While I'm not thrilled with the state of the team, this one isn't going 0-for-January like that one did, or lose 14 straight overall. (Was it 12?) We'll probably go on a little run at some point and finish in the low 80s point range again (which isn't good enough, but isn't a tank team by ~30 points)

Matter is talking reality and you're talking conjecture. Which do you think usually wins out in Buffalo sports?

[bunomatic]

We are what we are. In order for us to make the playoffs it was discussed pre-season that pretty much everyone needed career years. That tells me that without some hockey god fairy dust a blind mans rabbit foot and the piss of a jackalopes left testicle this team really doesn't have the makeup of a championship team. There was a very real possibility that we would struggle just to sneak into the dance. Well folks things have gone south of that lofty goal. You can blame team makeup, coaching, injuries and puck luck or lack thereof. But we are what we are.

[That Aud Smell]

[bob_sauve28]

and completely inexcuseable...

 

We think this team has had injuries?  That team had near ZERO talent...through 36 games to the end of December that team had 31 points...

 

Currently through the first 36 games this year, this team is on pace for 34-35 points...

 

So they are 3-4 points better than the 2014 team which was made up of has beens, never were's and a few decent players?? A team that was among the worst in the history of the NHL??

 

That's what we waited for?  A team that has enough talent to make the playoffs to play down to this disgraceful level?

 

It is so maddening and frustrating to see this team underachieve so badly and everyone wants to use Eichel being out as an excuse...

 

It's not. They still had better talent even without Eichel than to be where they are now.  

 

It's a coaching failure, its a player failure and they need to get it turned around fast.  

 

It is embarrassing to even be mentioned in the same breath as that team, but that's what they find themselves looking at...

It's just sports, It's not that big a deal 

[Marvelo]

We are a Pegula-owned pro sports franchise. 

 

What do you expect?

 

He is the stupidest owner in all of sports.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Marvelo

[Stoner]

We are a Pegula-owned pro sports franchise. 

 

What do you expect?

 

He is the stupidest owner in all of sports.

 

He is a whole lot of stupid. This ain't fracking, my friend. He's like an owner tornado. He came off the lake, took out the Sabres and headed for the southtowns. The only hope here is that maybe he can defy meteorology and circle back and flatten the Bisons, leaving the Sabres and Bills to somehow rebuild themselves with the insurance money.

[dudacek]

Matter is talking reality and you're talking conjecture. Which do you think usually wins out in Buffalo sports?

Didnt that 2014 team have kind of a miracle run in December where the goalies were making 40 saves a night and Zemgus was popping in highlight reel game winners? It almost briefly got them into the playoff race.

 

I guess the next question is if the current 5-3-2 run the Sabres are on is their version of that, or have found their level.

[Randall Flagg]

Matter is talking reality and you're talking conjecture. Which do you think usually wins out in Buffalo sports?

I'm confused by this

[PromoTheRobot]

We are a Pegula-owned pro sports franchise.

 

What do you expect?

 

He is the stupidest owner in all of sports.

He must be because he kept both sports franchises in Buffalo.

[Stoner]

I'm confused by this

Matter is making a statistical case based on actual results that this team right now isn't much better than that tank team. You're not refuting it, it really can't be refuted. You're just guessing that this team won't collapse the rest of the way and end up as bad as that tank team. Probably a good guess, but still just a guess.

[Jacque Richard]

Worst shooting team in the NHL I swear. hard to believe their offense is so pitiful

[Stoner]

He must be because he kept both sports franchises in Buffalo.

That's pretty thin gruel in terms of a resume to this point, wouldn't you say? Bettman and Golisano kept the Sabres here, too. Do they get credit? I won't speak to the Bills situation, but in terms of the Sabres, was there some discussion that I missed that they were in danger of leaving town and Pegula rode in and saved them? Maybe my memory is as bad as the memory of the guy who didn't recall that the Sabres were for sale in 2002-2003.

[Drunkard]

That's pretty thin gruel in terms of a resume to this point, wouldn't you say? Bettman and Golisano kept the Sabres here, too. Do they get credit? I won't speak to the Bills situation, but in terms of the Sabres, was there some discussion that I missed that they were in danger of leaving town and Pegula rode in and saved them? Maybe my memory is as bad as the memory of the guy who didn't recall that the Sabres were for sale in 2002-2003.

 

And let's never forget that Pegula and Rogers are both responsible for a certain orange person being our next President. If not for them driving up the price Trump would be making the Bills great again instead of tabbing his corporate cronies to run government departments that they just want to shut down.

 

Never forget.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Drunkard

[LGR4GM]

[nfreeman]

It shouldn't be seen as incomprehensible, or even odd.  Tanking usually fails to produce a winning team, and instead leaves the team in the wilderness for a generation.  That is the most likely outcome here as well. 

[LGR4GM]

It shouldn't be seen as incomprehensible, or even odd.  Tanking usually fails to produce a winning team, and instead leaves the team in the wilderness for a generation.  That is the most likely outcome here as well. 

No it doesn't and no it doesn't. There are loads of teams that have rebuild via the draft through tanking and gone on to success. How else should Buffalo have built? 

 

I understand, you hated the tank. Here is a question, what would this team look like with Zemgus and Grigs up the middle, no ROR, but I guess we have Compher and Zadorov so woo. We also don't have GMTM as DR is still GM in a non tanking world. Jack Eichel plays for Arizona. Sam Reinhart is in well not Buffalo. Johan Larsson also not a Sabre but we still have Jason Pominville and Thomas Vanek leading our locker room. If you told me that today would look like this or if I wanted I could go back and not tank, I tank every time. 

 

Vanek - Grigorenko - Pominville

Luke Adam - Zemgus - Armia

Foligno - Ennis -  Stafford

Ellis - Schaller - Kaleta

spare: Gerbe, Compher

 

 

... man I wish that was the team we had kept so we didn't wander in the wilderness for generations.  #sarcasm 

[Stoner]

How else does a struggling team build? Maybe honestly? Not every team in Buffalo's situation just throws up its hands, says we got nothin' here and tanks, hoping to fall into a generational talent. Some do and it works out. I'd have to agree with nfreeman that it's the exception and not the rule.

[TheAud]

Matter is making a statistical case based on actual results that this team right now isn't much better than that tank team. You're not refuting it, it really can't be refuted. You're just guessing that this team won't collapse the rest of the way and end up as bad as that tank team. Probably a good guess, but still just a guess.

Sabres have 26 points in 27 games which works out to a pace of 79 points for the season. Not good but the 2014 team finished with 54 points. That's quite a difference. 

Sabres have 9 games left in December so they could end up with anywhere from 26 to 44 points vs 31 for the 2014 team (and btw, how many games had that team played by end of December?)

The 2014 team tanked in 2nd half and I agree we don't know if the 2016 team will do likewise or not. We also don't know if they will catch on fire and end up with 94 points. Unlikely but not impossible. 

The point is, this is not a sound 'statistical case' it's simply cherry picking some information as vehicle to complain about the team.  Which is completely unnecessary as there are plenty of other justifications possible to complain about. 

[Stoner]

Here's a more objective way of making Matter's point:

 

2014-2015, last year of tank: 26 points in 30 games

 

2015-2016, Bubble Team?: 27 points in 30 games

 

2016-2017, Make the Playoffs!: on pace for 30 points in 30 games

 

It just seems like both Buffalo franchises have to break this horrible habit of taking themselves out of the playoffs before the season even gets interesting.

[That Aud Smell]

How else does a struggling team build? Maybe honestly? Not every team in Buffalo's situation just throws up its hands, says we got nothin' here and tanks, hoping to fall into a generational talent. Some do and it works out. I'd have to agree with nfreeman that it's the exception and not the rule.

 

Lulz.

[LGR4GM]

How else does a struggling team build? Maybe honestly? Not every team in Buffalo's situation just throws up its hands, says we got nothin' here and tanks, hoping to fall into a generational talent. Some do and it works out. I'd have to agree with nfreeman that it's the exception and not the rule.

What does "honestly"mean. How would you have rebuilt the Sabres? 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

How else does a struggling team build? Maybe honestly? Not every team in Buffalo's situation just throws up its hands, says we got nothin' here and tanks, hoping to fall into a generational talent. Some do and it works out. I'd have to agree with nfreeman that it's the exception and not the rule.

 

My brother from a different mother.

 

I was steadfastly anti-tank and I definitely do not want to go back there again and relive all that nonsense. Not too mention the fan base questioning other fans loyalty.  What a nightmarish time that was.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Sabres Fan In NS