The core vs. accessories

[bob_sauve28]

I still don't understand the hate for Gorges.

 

me either. He is a good defenseman who plays well.

I really don't know where to go with Reinhart.  He looks very limited on the ice.  He isn't fast, doesn't play with great size....while OK with the puck he isn't a wizard stickhandling...and isn't steller defensively also.  Basically, for a #2 overall pick I don't see him being anywhere close to dominant or ever being able to take over a game on any level.

 

Does that mean he is bad? Of course not, it just looks like the Sabres drafted Reinhart at #2 in a year...when in most other years he might be a #5-#10 guy...and his lack of speed makes it worse with the way the NHL is going.

 

The on the other hand...are we expecting too much production too soon?  Taylor Hall has never scored 30.  Ryan Johansen took 3 years to be productive. Huberdea  has topped out in his career at 20 goals. Galchenyuk looks great the last 2 seaons, but it took him 4 years to hit 30. So I'm not sure how I feel about Reinhart yet.

 

Are we expecting too much of him? Or is he just a guy that is not going to be able to ever take over any kind of game against anyone?

I still see him as very young with his best years ahead of him. Reminds me of a Backstrom or Bergeven, just quietly collecting assists while not getting noticed a whole bunch. I'd still like to see him with ROR more. OKP can play with Jack. DD seems to have married these guys together on lines

[bob_sauve28]

Alright!! http://buffalonews.com/2016/12/11/sabres-swap-right-wingers-okposo-reinhart-change-lines/

 

Finally moved the lines around!

[Randall Flagg]

Alright!! http://buffalonews.com/2016/12/11/sabres-swap-right-wingers-okposo-reinhart-change-lines/

 

Finally moved the lines around!

Good thing Kane and Eichel can still misunderstand each other out there, I was worried we wouldn't get to see the stunning chemistry between the two anymore.

[TrueBlueGED]

Good thing Kane and Eichel can still misunderstand each other out there, I was worried we wouldn't get to see the stunning chemistry between the two anymore.

Because speed.

 

Bylsma is unbelievably stubborn.

[Rasmus_]

My rapid attempt to tier our players based on how willing to trade them I am (currently rostered players only):

 

 

Tier One (AHHHHHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA): Jack Eichel

 

Tier Two (Don't bother calling): Ristolainen, O'Rielly

 

Tier Three (Sure, I'll listen, is McDavid available?): Ryanhart, Okposo

 

Tier Four (Maybe, but it'll cost you): McCabe, Kulikov, Kane, Larsson, 

 

Tier Five (Make me an offer): Carrier, Ennis, Foligno, Bogosian

 

Tier Six (I assume this is part of another deal):  Gionta, Moulson, Delauriers, Grant, Nilsson, Girgensons, Franson

 

Tier Seven (So is it a bag of like, NEW pucks or...): Gorges

 

 

I might have missed some. And I didn't do prospects (I tried, but I just don't know their value enough). I think anyone from Tier 4 up either are or could be part of the core (Kane's legal issues withstanding, of course). From there down, all those pieces can move and I won't lose any sleep over it.

 

I think, just from looking at that, that its clearly our defence that needs the biggest upgrading. I struggled putting Bogo up as high as I did, though he did a good job last season when he was active. 

Tier 1:  Eichel, Reinhart

Tier 2:  Ristolainen, O'Reilly

Tier 3:  Larsson, Nylander, Okposo, Asplund

Tier 4:  McCabe, Guhle, Kane, Pu, Fasching

Tier 5:  Kulikov, Carrier, Foligno, Girgensons, Lehner/Nilsson 

Tier 6:  Gionta, Deslauriers,

Tier 7:  Moulson, Gorges, Ennis, Bogosian

Edited December 11, 2016 by TheCerebral1

[LGR4GM]

Asplund in no way shape or form belongs on any list ranked above Jake McCabe and it is laughable to see an untested unknown prospect to be ranked 2 tiers above Kulikov and even Foligno.  

. 

 

Tier 1:  Eichel

Tier 2:  Ristolainen, O'Reilly, Okposo, Reinhart

Tier 3:  Larsson, Nylander, 

Tier 4:  McCabe, Guhle, Kane, Fasching, Kulikov

Tier 5:  Carrier, Foligno, Girgensons, Lehner/Nilsson, Pu, Asplund

Tier 6:  Gionta, Deslauriers, Bogosian, Ennis, Gorges

Tier 7:  Moulson, 

[qwksndmonster]

I'm sure Zemgus loves being written off like this.

[LGR4GM]

I'm sure Zemgus loves being written off like this.

Maybe he should play better then. 

[qwksndmonster]

Maybe he should play better then.

Maybe the coach should fit the system to the players.

[Doohicksie]

Ehhhh.... I gotta go with Liger on this one.  While both are right, if Gus is truly 1st round material, he should be able to adapt his game to his coach's system.  He's got a roster spot on the team currently but unless he finds a place on the team he won't be here long.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Doohickie

[Drunkard]

Maybe the coach should fit the system to the players.

 

We can't do that, man. Failing to cram square pegs into round holes is what we do. One Buffalo.

[qwksndmonster]

Ehhhh.... I gotta go with Liger on this one. While both are right, if Gus is truly 1st round material, he should be able to adapt his game to his coach's system. He's got a roster spot on the team currently but unless he finds a place on the team he won't be here long.

I don't think draft position has anything to do with it (although many first rounders have found comfortable roles on 3rd and 4th lines). Zemgus is a better player than he's currently showing. We've seen it in the past. I don't think this is a Leinohdgsn disappearing act, I think Bylsma has no clue what he's doing.

 

When Zemgus had a monster start to a game recently (vs. Caps the 1st time I think?) And scored a beautiful goal, Bylsma didn't shake up the lines, despite Carrier and Kane adding absolutely no offense at the time. Bylsma isn't even giving him a chance. He's stubborn with his line combinations and he's stubborn wih his lifeless system.

[LGR4GM]

I think Zemgus needs consistency in his game and he lacks that. I love him but realistically his value right now is low.

[spndnchz]

I'm sure Zemgus loves being written off like this.

 

Zemgus: Definition:

Gets puck into corner.

Loses puck in corner.

Checks his man.

Bounces off and falls to ice.

[Samson's Flow]

This is the logical next step in the rebuild/development into a contending team. I think we have demonstrated that the top few players on our roster are of enough quality to make the playoffs.

 

As a result of the 2 years of historical ineptitude, the rest of our team is filled with role players without any defined role or skill. These were players that were skilled enough at scoring during the tank years that they played on the "top" lines, but now that they have been superceded by Eichel and ROR, they are really poor fits on the bottom lines. These players include the likes of Gionta, Moulson, Girgensens, etc. The other portion of the team is made up of very green prospects and younger players that cannot be relied on to consistently perform the tasks required of a championship 3rd/4th line.

 

I think GMTM needs to start focusing on acquiring and replacing players in order to fill a specific role, rather than just a collection of players that we hope can figure it out. i think that is part of the reason (not the only) of why we see so much line juggling, as there isn't a clear way that all the players fit together in a coherent manner. 

[Doohicksie]

I think GMTM needs to start focusing on acquiring and replacing players in order to fill a specific role, rather than just a collection of players that we hope can figure it out. i think that is part of the reason (not the only) of why we see so much line juggling, as there isn't a clear way that all the players fit together in a coherent manner. 

 

I think/hope this is the difference between Darcy and GMTM.  Darcy produced a fine collection of players, they just didn't really form a team.  GMTM seems like he's already differentiated a bit in the top lines in terms of acquiring speed, toughness, smarts, touch, etc., and giving DD some pieces to tinker with.  The problem is that the leftover pieces don't form a decent 4th line (the 3rd line is actually pretty good, although Gionta is not the long term third piece of that line.)

 

I think for the long haul there will be a bit of tinkering, a bit of filling gaps (probably one or two top 6 fwds, a coupla Ds, and a stream of 1-2 year contract vets at the back end of their career to fill out the checking lines (Legwand, Gionta, etc.)  At some point we'll start to see Jack and Samson as experienced young vets like ROR is now and they will lead/shape the prospects under the tutelage of the older vets.  We think of the pipeline as being the supply of players coming up, but it is also the supply of veteran depth that's already in the league.  Any championship team is going to have a Jagr, a Hossa, an Iginla, etc., tempering the exuberance of the younger players with steadiness of experience.

[Doohicksie]

I was wondering:  Is the Sabres core complete?  If you count Nylander, maybe not quite yet.

 

Besides Nylander, are the Sabres still looking for core pieces?  Who else in the system projects to potentially a member of the core?

[inkman]

I was wondering: Is the Sabres core complete? If you count Nylander, maybe not quite yet.

 

Besides Nylander, are the Sabres still looking for core pieces? Who else in the system projects to potentially a member of the core?

I like McCabe but I want him as our Hjarlmsonn (,sp?) Not our Seabrook. Bring in another top 4 D.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I like McCabe but I want him as our Hjarlmsonn (,sp?) Not our Seabrook. Bring in another top 4 D.

 

I agree with this.

 

When Nylander comes up I really think the forward core is set, but I want another top 4 Dman.  I think the bottom pair now is OK, but may want another bottom pairing guy, although they may be in the system somewhere already.

[Doohicksie]

Anyone project Guhle as the 2nd pair D?

[Thorner]

Whether our forward scoring lines are nearly set probably depends on if ROR and Sam both play centre for the most part, once all is said and done, or if one moves to wing. Let's say ROR moves to LW eventually:

 

O'Reilly - Eichel - Okposo

Kane - Reinhart - Nylander

 

That's just one example of what I would consider to be a nice top 6. If we are going to pack as much scoring as we can into the top 6, we may have all our pieces already.

 

If we lean towards a more balanced top 9, with 3 scoring lines, we could be looking currently at something like:

 

X - O'Reilly - Okposo

X - Eichel - Nylander

Kane - Reinhart - Bailey

 

Now, if the kids continue developing in an advantageous way, we may be able to plug guys like Carrier and Foligno in for those open LW positions. But I think GMTM would, in this scenario, potentially be on the prowl for at least one LW upgrade. This also depends on the availability/production of Ennis.

 

Either way, I think we are in pretty good shape at forward.

 

At defence, things are less shapely. We still need to add at least 1, potentially 2 top four d-men. I'm comfortable slotting both Ristolainen and McCabe in the top 4, but that still leaves us with uncertainty in regards to 1 LHD and 1 RHD in the top 4. At best, Kulikov, once he's finally healthy, provides us with an adequate top 4 LHD solution:

 

McCabe - Ristolainen

Kulikov - X

 

This would only be sufficient if we were looking to run a balanced top 4, meaning we couldn't slack on that other RHD, meaning Bogosian isn't good enough.

 

In short, in terms of core players, we are going to need to add at least a top 4 RHD, best case scenario. But that's a pretty good best case scenario, as I do think most of the core is accounted for as is.