Mounting injuries for Sabres, the unintended tank or train wreck? Larsson too!

[Taro T]

Not entirely sure what you meant by this? Let it go where? Keep playing hockey the best you can IMO. No more tanking.

Pretty much. They took 7 of the 1st 10 points since Eichel came back. Do that the rest of the year (which is difficult, especially when realizing they need 7 of 8 in this 5 games to keep the pace) & they're just about in the post-season.

 

Make the run boys.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Taro T

[Eleven]

Pretty much. They tok 7 of the 1st 10 points since Eichel came back. Do that the rest of the year (which is difficult, especially when realizing they need 7 of 8 I this 5 games to keep the pace) &they're just about inthe post-season.

 

Make the run boys.

 

2:02 AM.

 

You can't sleep either, huh?  Is this a 40s thing?  I think I hate it.

[Taro T]

2:02 AM.

 

You can't sleep either, huh?  Is this a 40s thing?  I think I hate it.

Nope. More of a "my midget team that is likely top 2 in our league just tied the team that is #1 (and the d*mn coach is responsible for not getting the win :doh:)" & Wegmans FINALLY sells Abita Amber to go w/ the Turbo Dog.

 

That & getting ripped rather than prepped for my final campground budget approval & 2:10 doesn't seem that late. :beer: (Sorry my man, no whiskey emoticon.)

 

That & going to a friend's calling hours before the game & hearing another buddy's wife has 6-24 months (after doing a truckload of chemo).

 

No ####ing clue what any of this has w/ Fedun's knee, 'cept didn't realize the midget game was tonight (last night technically) & ate a big chunk o' the tix 'cause of a lack of planning. :doh:

[qwksndmonster]

I almost hopped in on the late night posting, but I was too embarassed about the sexual nature of my hypothetical posts.

[Wharf Rat]

Lehner in my opinion is a failed trade. Would like to see Nilson get the starting job and see what he's got. But GM's never want to admit a mistake.

[North Buffalo]

Lehner in my opinion is a failed trade. Would like to see Nilson get the starting job and see what he's got. But GM's never want to admit a mistake.

Failed only bc of price. GMTM overvalued his talent right now. He could still turn out with right coaching but he needs work. Amount of play will indicate to me how much tanking Sabres are gonna do.

[Rasmus_]

I really don't see Nilson as that much of an upgrade.  But to each their own.  I think it's more of a 1A/1B type tandem situation.

[North Buffalo]

So now that Kulikov's back and OReilly are out. Timing couldnt be worse or it is some of this practically it has exposed this young team's lacknof depth and its killing them against teams like the bruins. Tough to warmtch but its ok if Sabres find a few more viable assets. ? do they find them in the draft, fa market or trade or all three and do you think Murray is more judicious with his higher round draft choices. Finally next year is about time some of these guys start paying off or is it more sit and wait.

[North Buffalo]

Holy crap, on vacation not closely following games, now Larsson gone for the year and O'Reilly out... wtf. Bring up kids a let them play sit Moulson and Gorges or makes some trades for young talent and tank on. Time now to break out the tank avatars.

 

http://www.sinaimg.cn/dy/slidenews/1_img/2011_12/18371_88298_680801.jpg

Edited January 3, 2017 by North Buffalo

[GASabresIUFAN]

Despite the win tonight the Sabres are 28th in the NHL standings, but a considerable distance ahead of 29 & 30 (we are 9 pts ahead of 29th place Arizona).  In addition we are 8 pts out of the 3rd and final divisional playoff spot.  

 

So what is in the best interest of the Sabres at this point.  Tank?  Play the kids and see what happens?  Be aggressive in the trade market to try to find an upgrade on D?

 

My thoughts at this point is to tank and play the kids.  No real benefit to moving up in the standings.  Might at well see if the kids can produce in the NHL and trade vets to playoff teams and see what assets can be acquired.  

[Thorner]

The kids are already driving the ship. The benefit to moving up in the standings would be that the young players are progressing nicely. The tank word shouldn't really be used anymore in regards to this team. The roster should be constructed in a way that gives it the best chance to win, and by and large playing the kids is what is needed for that, and it's what's happening. You need to keep some vets on the team to take a little bit of pressure away from the kids when possible. Guys like Gionta.

[Doohicksie]

Despite the win tonight the Sabres are 28th in the NHL standings, but a considerable distance ahead of 29 & 30 (we are 9 pts ahead of 29th place Arizona).  In addition we are 8 pts out of the 3rd and final divisional playoff spot.  

 

So what is in the best interest of the Sabres at this point.  Tank?  Play the kids and see what happens?  Be aggressive in the trade market to try to find an upgrade on D?

 

My thoughts at this point is to tank and play the kids.  No real benefit to moving up in the standings.  Might at well see if the kids can produce in the NHL and trade vets to playoff teams and see what assets can be acquired.  

 

Playing the kids is not necessarily a tank move.  They showed that tonight against the New York Rangers.  Reinhart is starting look the part of a top-six center with two gorgeous assists tonight and a couple of coulda-beens.  Bailey scored his first in the NHL.  Eichel scored.  If you want to count Girgs as a kid, yeah, he scored too, and had a very strong game.  Carrier had an assist tonight and brings energy into the lineup.  Baptiste impressed earlier in the season.  Play the kids and sure, they will struggle to find consistency, but that doesn't mean they will tank.  Play the kids and teach them to win.

[nucci]

Despite the win tonight the Sabres are 28th in the NHL standings, but a considerable distance ahead of 29 & 30 (we are 9 pts ahead of 29th place Arizona).  In addition we are 8 pts out of the 3rd and final divisional playoff spot.  

 

So what is in the best interest of the Sabres at this point.  Tank?  Play the kids and see what happens?  Be aggressive in the trade market to try to find an upgrade on D?

 

My thoughts at this point is to tank and play the kids.  No real benefit to moving up in the standings.  Might at well see if the kids can produce in the NHL and trade vets to playoff teams and see what assets can be acquired.  

Yes, I want to keep watching them lose for the next 5 years , get top picks and hope they get to the playoffs before I die. I think fans are so used to losing a

that it is becoming ok

[North Buffalo]

Whether or not you call it Tank intended or not.... playing the kids probably wont get the Sabres in the playoffs, but they will be a lot more fun to watch. The energy that Carrier and Bailey bring was pure joy and why I lke to watch hockey. Sam has found his groove.

[Taro T]

Whether or not you call it Tank intended or not.... playing the kids probably wont get the Sabres in the playoffs, but they will be a lot more fun to watch. The energy that Carrier and Bailey bring was pure joy and why I lke to watch hockey. Sam has found his groove.

Playing the kids is not the same as tanking.

 

This team is NOT anywhere close to similar to the construction of the tank teams nor should tank type moves be made. There is no youth to speak of ready to move in at D at present. (Guhle is only emergency recallable @ this point.) The 2 young guys that are ready back there are already getting consistent #1 & top 4 minutes respectively. Let Nelson get his head back on straight for now (if he can get it back). So benching a Gorges or Kulikov to allow them to get healthy really doesn't open anything up for the kids.

 

They could be adding Baptiste & if he ever gets healthy Fasching to the mix but there is no real need to rush those moves as the injury bug will get those 2 into the lineup before the season is done. Nylander could probably get some time too, though I'd prefer he stay AHL this year & come up next year. & if you do rush those guys in you're coming perilously close to Euler-levels of youth which doesn't do anything positive for anyone.

 

Due largely to the system they play, this team looks bad on far too many nights, but tweaking/scrapping the system will cure a lot of ills.

 

This squad will need a minor miracle (or a least a coaching change) to make the playoffs this season. Don't "tank" but if rest will get O'Reilly & Ennis healthy, let them stay out a couple of extra games so that Bailey & Carrier do beat out Grant & D-lo w/ their play. (They should've already, but because of Bylsma ...) Then when the next injuries hit, then give Baptiste & Fasching their shots to show they're better than those 2 & Moulson (& maybe Ennis too). And filling in injury holes w/ youth & letting them earn their roles keeping them in the lineup when the injuries subside is not tanking. It's the way most of the other 29 teams do business.

 

Would definitely like to see Grant out of the lineup (& D-lo at #13 too) but unless Girgensons or Ennis get slotted to 4C, don't see it happening.

[North Buffalo]

Playing the kids is not the same as tanking.

This team is NOT anywhere close to similar to the construction of the tank teams nor should tank type moves be made. There is no youth to speak of ready to move in at D at present. (Guhle is only emergency recallable @ this point.) The 2 young guys that are ready back there are already getting consistent #1 & top 4 minutes respectively. Let Nelson get his head back on straight for now (if he can get it back). So benching a Gorges or Kulikov to allow them to get healthy really doesn't open anything up for the kids.

They could be adding Baptiste & if he ever gets healthy Fasching to the mix but there is no real need to rush those moves as the injury bug will get those 2 into the lineup before the season is done. Nylander could probably get some time too, though I'd prefer he stay AHL this year & come up next year. & if you do rush those guys in you're coming perilously close to Euler-levels of youth which doesn't do anything positive for anyone.

Due largely to the system they play, this team looks bad on far too many nights, but tweaking/scrapping the system will cure a lot of ills.

This squad will need a minor miracle (or a least a coaching change) to make the playoffs this season. Don't "tank" but if rest will get O'Reilly & Ennis healthy, let them stay out a couple of extra games so that Bailey & Carrier do beat out Grant & D-lo w/ their play. (They should've already, but because of Bylsma ...) Then when the next injuries hit, then give Baptiste & Fasching their shots to show they're better than those 2 & Moulson (& maybe Ennis too). And filling in injury holes w/ youth & letting them earn their roles keeping them in the lineup when the injuries subside is not tanking. It's the way most of the other 29 teams do business.

Would definitely like to see Grant out of the lineup (& D-lo at #13 too) but unless Girgensons or Ennis get slotted to 4C, don't see it happening.

Fair points dont think we disagree, maybe Borgen could be called up too. But by default with all the injuries it is an unintended tank. On the forward side, I think you keep letting the youth gain touches of experience at the NHL level.

[dudacek]

Nelson is a bad AHL defenceman at the moment. Borgen doesn't have a contract.

We really need to hope the expansion draft squeezes somebody loose.

[Doohicksie]

Fair points dont think we disagree, maybe Borgen could be called up too. But by default with all the injuries it is an unintended tank. On the forward side, I think you keep letting the youth gain touches of experience at the NHL level.

 

I think Bailey has looked better each time I've seen him.  Getting a taste of the bigs, then going back to the A to work on areas of improvement identified in the NHL, seems to be beneficial.  It helped Sam, it helped Bailey.  It seems to be helping with Baptiste.

[GASabresIUFAN]

"Tanking" may be the wrong term.  However, GMTM should see what he can get from now until the deadline for certain vets on this roster that aren't what we need long term.  For example; Gionta.  I have mentioned before that it might be wise to re-sign him.  However, at this point trading him to a contender who needs veteran scoring depth is the right thing to do for us and him.  Gionta, Franson, Gorges, Moulson, Foligno, Girgensons, Lehner, Bogo, Kulikov, Nilsson, even Kane should all be put on the market and see what see can get.  I'm not saying trade all these guys away, but some (3-5 of the list?) should be moved on.  

 

We need to finish as low as possible in the standings to draft the sniper we need.  We need this year's version of Laine (if available).  Lets face it, this team, because we really only have 2 good D (McCabe and RIstolainen) and with only one guy, Guhle, we feel is part of the long term, (not sure what Borgen and Fitzgerald are long-term) is not a contender now or in the near future without major changes.  We need to build assets (and/or cap room) to acquire the puck mover we so desperately need as well).  

 

Dumping these vets isn't "tanking" per se, it's using your resources effectively to help the team next season and beyond.

[Doohicksie]

Lets face it, this team... is not a contender now or in the near future without major changes. 

 

Guess what?  Flailing around in the trade market will not accelerate the build much, if at all.

[North Buffalo]

Another loss unintended Tank on.

[Thwomp!]

Guess what?  Flailing around in the trade market will not accelerate the build much, if at all.

 

Yeah, I think we've seen plenty of evidence of that so far.  

 

I'm still open to the right trades and right players acquired for the rebuild, but I'm skeptical in GMTM's ability to do this.  Therefore, I'm really 50/50 on whether I want GMTM's status quo, obstinate posture we've seen this year vs. the free wheeling, not-so-great results moves of the past.

[Doohicksie]

Here's the deal:  There is a less than 50% chance of any given team making the playoffs in a given year, and about a 3% chance of any given team winning the Cup.

 

Now take a team that's closer to the bottom that it is to the elite teams, and the odds are much worse.

 

Being an incumbent elite team tends to perpetuate itself until decay eventually sets in.  The best elite teams manage to regenerate their core on a rolling basis (think of Detroit rolling Yzerman/Federov into Zetterberg/Datsyuk, or the evolution of the core in Chicago).  Then there are flash-in-the-pan teams that do well for a year or two, but can't sustain it.

 

The perennial winners built up to that status.  They had years of struggles and frustration before winning it all.  Yzerman was in Detroit 14 years before winning a Cup.

 

We're in Year Two of Eichel/ROR/Reinhart.  The team is showing improved talent.  Realistically, it may take another two or three years before this team really deserves to be in the playoffs.  Trading away the proper pieces to get better pieces will improve the team, but this team also needs to develop its system, its chemistry, its depth, etc.  Taking a while to develop this team does not mean that GMTM is mismanaging the rebuild.  There's a lot of moving pieces to bring into place, and they're not going to come instantly.

 

There are excitng prospects in the system.  It's tempting to rush Guhle, Nylander, etc., up to the big club, but the proper development of these players will take some time. Baptiste, Bailey, Fasching and Carrier are closer, but they are probably more like Foligno (bottom 6 player that can handle some top 6 duty) than Nylander (clear top 6 projection).  Building an enduring, quality team isn't something that can be done in a season or two.  If we want a quality rebuild we have to understand that it's going to take a while.

 

I'm as frustrated by Bylsma as anyone.  His style does not motivate players to over-achieve.  If this was the last year the Sabres would be playing hockey, I'd want to see a much more dynamic coach who favored more goal scoring.  But this isn't the Championship Year, even if the Sabres max out their potential.  Subjecting themselves to Bylsma's system might not make the Sabres live up to their potential right now, but I think it's laying the foundation for future success.  Changing coaches now won't necessarily accelerate that process, even if it is ultimately another coach that will take us to the promised land. 

 

If you've watched Karate Kid, we're currently in "Wax On, Wax Off" mode.  It's hard to see how that will make us successful, but I really believe we are moving in the right direction and will have future success.  If you're looking at the Detroit model, we may still be 10 years or more away from a Cup win though.

[inkman]

I've been in wax off mode my whole life

[WildCard]

There is a Swedish defensemen likened to Karlsson that is available in the top 5, fwiw