WildCard Posted April 8, 2017 Report Posted April 8, 2017 If this happens Monday, will it make up for Black Monday?
Guest Posted April 8, 2017 Report Posted April 8, 2017 What if the real problem isn't the system, but the crappy players acquired to execute DD's system or any other system? Everyone agrees that the defense is the main problem. The only 2 good D, Risto and McCabe, were drafted by Regier. The four starters acquired by GMTM stunk. 3 of these D, Franson, Kulikov and Bogo were acquired w DD's system in mind and they failed to execute it. All systems look good with good rosters to execute it. We don't have that roster, and GMTM is fully aware of that which is why he has said multiple times that it is his fault for not getting adequate D depth. It is also why he continues to support DD.
Taro T Posted April 8, 2017 Report Posted April 8, 2017 What if the real problem isn't the system, but the crappy players acquired to execute DD's system or any other system? Everyone agrees that the defense is the main problem. The only 2 good D, Risto and McCabe, were drafted by Regier. The four starters acquired by GMTM stunk. 3 of these D, Franson, Kulikov and Bogo were acquired w DD's system in mind and they failed to execute it. All systems look good with good rosters to execute it. We don't have that roster, and GMTM is fully aware of that which is why he has said multiple times that it is his fault for not getting adequate D depth. It is also why he continues to support DD. Bogosian was aquired w/ Babdick's system in mind.
Thorner Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 What if the real problem isn't the system, but the crappy players acquired to execute DD's system or any other system? Everyone agrees that the defense is the main problem. The only 2 good D, Risto and McCabe, were drafted by Regier. The four starters acquired by GMTM stunk. 3 of these D, Franson, Kulikov and Bogo were acquired w DD's system in mind and they failed to execute it. All systems look good with good rosters to execute it. We don't have that roster, and GMTM is fully aware of that which is why he has said multiple times that it is his fault for not getting adequate D depth. It is also why he continues to support DD. There is no doubt that Bylsma's system, properly executed, by the proper players, would result in a much better team. Up to and including the maximum positive result of losing in the second round every year.
Randall Flagg Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 What if the real problem isn't the system, but the crappy players acquired to execute DD's system or any other system? Everyone agrees that the defense is the main problem. The only 2 good D, Risto and McCabe, were drafted by Regier. The four starters acquired by GMTM stunk. 3 of these D, Franson, Kulikov and Bogo were acquired w DD's system in mind and they failed to execute it. All systems look good with good rosters to execute it. We don't have that roster, and GMTM is fully aware of that which is why he has said multiple times that it is his fault for not getting adequate D depth. It is also why he continues to support DD. What if the whole world was black or white
TrueBlueGED Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) What if the real problem isn't the system, but the crappy players acquired to execute DD's system or any other system? Everyone agrees that the defense is the main problem. The only 2 good D, Risto and McCabe, were drafted by Regier. The four starters acquired by GMTM stunk. 3 of these D, Franson, Kulikov and Bogo were acquired w DD's system in mind and they failed to execute it. All systems look good with good rosters to execute it. We don't have that roster, and GMTM is fully aware of that which is why he has said multiple times that it is his fault for not getting adequate D depth. It is also why he continues to support DD. Why is it so hard for you to wrap your head around the idea that Murray's assembled blue line isn't as good as it needs to be, and at the same time, Bylsma is asking them to do things they're not good at which makes them look worse than they are? Both of these things can exist simultaneously. I hate Zach Bogosian and think he's a high end 3rd pairing guy, even when healthy. I think Kulikov is, at best, a low end 2nd pairing guy. That's obviously not good enough for a top-4 group if you want to be a contender. It has to be better. But, they are both currently playing like AHL-level players. They're worse because Bylsma is asking them to do things they're bad at (make quick, complex decisions, and fast, accurate passes over a long distance) and de-emphasizing things they're good at (skating the puck). I'm not in favor of firing Bylsma because he can't make chicken salad out of chicken . I'm in favor of firing him because he's been given ground beef, and he's still trying to make chicken salad with it...and is seemingly perplexed it hasn't worked. Edited April 9, 2017 by TrueBlueGED
Guest Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) The sad part is that DD adjusted early in the year to play more trap, slow the game down and protect his outmanned D. He was eviscerated for it. When he got Kane and Jack back he opened up the offense and our D and poor back checking forwards got further exposed. True your theory is that DD asked these guys to do things they weren't able to do by forcing them to play his system which made bad players worse. I get it and have always understood your theory. However, I'm saying these guys are so bad they weren't good enough for any system, trap, stretch, whatever. They are to slow, and lack the hockey IQ to be effective. The terrible PK, poor possession numbers, lack of blocked shots, huge shots allowed, inability to clear the zone are all reflective of the lack of fundemental ability to be effective NHL players at this point. I can accept the some of these issues reflect injuries. But add in GMTM's admitted failure to have adequate NHL made a terrible group worse. DD's system may ultimately be proven a failure, but until he has a real roster we won't truly know. Edited April 9, 2017 by yse325
Taro T Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 The sad part is that DD adjusted early in the year to play more trap, slow the game down and protect his outmanned D. He was eviscerated for it. When he got Kane and Jack back he opened up the offense and our D and poor back checking forwards got further exposed. True your theory is that DD asked these guys to do things they weren't able to do by forcing them to play his system which made bad players worse. I get it and have always understood your theory. However, I'm saying these guys are so bad they weren't good enough for any system, trap, stretch, whatever. They are to slow, and lack the hockey IQ to be effective. The terrible PK, poor possession numbers, lack of blocked shots, huge shots allowed, inability to clear the zone are all reflective of the lack of fundemental ability to be effective NHL players at this point. I can accept the some of these issues reflect injuries. But add in GMTM's admitted failure to have adequate NHL made a terrible group worse. DD's system may ultimately be proven a failure, but until he has a real roster we won't truly know. Well, he seems like a nice enough guy. Hopefully his next employer gives him the roster you think he needs to continue the experiment. The Sabres should be done w/ it.
Guest Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 One other note. I won't be surprised if DD is let go. The team has taken a step laterally at best or backward at worst. As Flagg has worked so diligently to show combined with performances like tonight, it can be justified. I feel letting him go would be making him the scapegoat for GMTM's failure to field a decent team. I also see some hope in the current staff. Top PP, 13th in shots. Improved goaltending. 21 home wins. Like I've said before if TM dumps Dan, there is no more insulation for GMTM. Success or failure is all on him. Better to fix the D give Dan a better roster early next year and see what happens.
Miller Time Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 Just putting this out there. I wanted Bylsma for coach but it's pretty obvious he is not the right choice. We have way too much talent to be this bad. Who should be our next coach?
Weave Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 I'm a little surprised noone has brought any heat to our Assistant Coach that handles the defence and PK. Murray's Unc.
Darryl Shannon's +/- Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 I know there has been a lot of in depth analysis when it comes down to the system Bylsma uses. I'll lean on simpler things to make the point. I forget the game, but down 2 goals and on the power play with 3-4 minutes left, he didn't pull the goalie. Down 2 after Eichel scored against the Leafs off the breakaway, he put the goalie back on the ice with a little over a minute to play. And the goalie was on the ice with his arms outstretched looking for the hook when play began. The worst thing that is going to happen is you'll lose by one more goal. My favorite Bylsma moment all year was a nationally televised game where the action was going up and down the ice. It was actually entertaining. Catching up with him, the question was asked about what he thought. "We have to slow the game down....we're giving up too many opportunities". Then add in the puzzling issue w/ Samson and the general crawl to the finish line this year. Put him out of his misery.
Taro T Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 One other note. I won't be surprised if DD is let go. The team has taken a step laterally at best or backward at worst. As Flagg has worked so diligently to show combined with performances like tonight, it can be justified. I feel letting him go would be making him the scapegoat for GMTM's failure to field a decent team. I also see some hope in the current staff. Top PP, 13th in shots. Improved goaltending. 21 home wins. Like I've said before if TM dumps Dan, there is no more insulation for GMTM. Success or failure is all on him. Better to fix the D give Dan a better roster early next year and see what happens. Whether Murray cans Bylsma or not, he isn't insulated from here. But if he cans Dan, and stuff goes sideways, he gets a full season (maybe 2). If they go sideways w/ Dan back then they're both gone by Thanksgiving.
Darryl Shannon's +/- Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 Whether Murray cans Bylsma or not, he isn't insulated from here. But if he cans Dan, and stuff goes sideways, he gets a full season (maybe 2). If they go sideways w/ Dan back then they're both gone by Thanksgiving. Agree totally with this - if he keeps Bylsma and next year starts off where this one ended, then GM/Coach combo will be on the shopping list.
bunomatic Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 Whether Murray cans Bylsma or not, he isn't insulated from here. But if he cans Dan, and stuff goes sideways, he gets a full season (maybe 2). If they go sideways w/ Dan back then they're both gone by Thanksgiving. Agreed. This team has to make the playoffs next year. Starting the year with DD has the potential to put us behind the 8 ball and having to play catch up all year just to potentially sneak in. We have to put up some points early.
Guest Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 I'm a little surprised noone has brought any heat to our Assistant Coach that handles the defence and PK. Murray's Unc. I have suggested in the GMTM thread that Terry Murray be tossed this off-season and be replaced with a up and coming coach. I agree that he is in charge of the worst aspects of the team and needs to go. Whether Murray cans Bylsma or not, he isn't insulated from here. But if he cans Dan, and stuff goes sideways, he gets a full season (maybe 2). If they go sideways w/ Dan back then they're both gone by Thanksgiving. I'm going to disagree especially if GMTM makes a big move to get a Vatanen or Fowler or similar D upgrade. If GMTM does this off-season what he did this last trade deadline, then you could be right.
Stoner Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) Anyone up for a hockey president to take a gander at things this offseason? (Don't ask me who.) In this scenario, I think Murray and Bylsma would be retained. But an adult in big boy pants would have them on a short leash. Then, if you have to make a move, it's not Terry, Kim, Russ and some banjo player from Nashville making the call and the new hire (but they'd have to hire the president, I suppose). Or would that de-scrotize Murray? Does he deserve a final chance to get this right without someone lording over him? Edited April 9, 2017 by PASabreFan
Darryl Shannon's +/- Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 Anyone up for a hockey president to take a gander at things this offseason? (Don't ask me who.) In this scenario, I think Murray and Bylsma would be retained. But an adult in big boy pants would have them on a short leash. Then, if you have to make a move, it's not Terry, Kim, Russ and some banjo player from Nashville making the call and the new hire (but they'd have to hire the president, I suppose). Or would that de-scrotize Murray? Does he deserve a final chance to get this right without someone lording over him? No thanks. And I think Pegula is going to be shy to go with this model after LaFontaine was somehow able to get fired after like two months. Imagine how hard that has to be. If Murray keeps Bylsma, a five year old can make the choice next year. If we stumble out of the gate and are on the outside looking in by Thanksgiving, then it's scorched earth time. Me personally, I'd rather hire a GM who is competent enough to run the program without a president getting involved with the on ice product.
TrueBlueGED Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 I'm a little surprised noone has brought any heat to our Assistant Coach that handles the defence and PK. Murray's Unc. If Bylsma stays, Terry Murray should definitely go. But I really don't think our blue line problems are the result of the position coach. It's also worth noting that while the PK had a bad season, it's been one of the best in the league the past month and a half or so.
Stoner Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 I'm fully in favor of a firewall between the hockey and business side. This is not realistic, but if it's going to happen anywhere, it's going to happen in Buffalo, where the owner has spent freely and even said if he wanted to make more money... well, you know the rest. Still, the philosophy has been that you have to, at least on the revenue side, run it like a business. Russ Brandon sees the handwriting on the wall. Is it possible he has nothing to say, no sway, in whether the coach gets fired to placate the customers?
dudacek Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) The business side certainly demands a sacrificial lamb, doesn't it? Even a major trade for a Fowler level D is not going to cut it, not after Kane and ROR. Not even Eichel can console us. Edited April 9, 2017 by dudacek
Huckleberry Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 Best case to turn this around besides firing Bylsma. Win the lottery and trade that to the hurricanes for Hannifin. Canes need a top 6 center and hannifin has had a rough season.
dudacek Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 Best case to turn this around besides firing Bylsma. Win the lottery and trade that to the hurricanes for Hannifin. Canes need a top 6 center and hannifin has had a rough season. I'm up for that. If player interviews are tomorrow, and we are waiting on them before a decision, when is the earliest we will see Dan gone? Tuesday? And if he's not gone Tuesday, should we expect an announcement that he is coming back? Or will they leave us clinging to a faint hope?
TrueBlueGED Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 I'm up for that. If player interviews are tomorrow, and we are waiting on them before a decision, when is the earliest we will see Dan gone? Tuesday? And if he's not gone Tuesday, should we expect an announcement that he is coming back? Or will they leave us clinging to a faint hope? Tuesday, probably. If memory serves, end of season presser is normally the day after locker clean out. Maybe they delay a day while evaluating the coaching staff (since last year there was no question about a return), but I'd think if he's not gone by Wednesday, he's not gonna be gone. But I'll hold a sliver of hope until I see him next to Murray at the presser.
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