bunomatic Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 I don't mind Lehner speaking his mind. Especially on a team so young but there's got to be some self introspection as well. He may be a leader but he's far from perfect.
dudacek Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 I've never perceived Lehner as being fingers; it's always "we."
Stoner Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 I've never perceived Lehner as being fingers; it's always "we." Do these speeches every come after he has a bad night?
darksabre Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 Do these speeches every come after he has a bad night? There you are, when I needed you most.
WildCard Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 Is Gionta more or less likely to come back if Dan is fired?
dudacek Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 Do these speeches every come after he has a bad night? I have definitely seen him say "I need to be better."
Stoner Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 There you are, when I needed you most. Even with the typo, I deliver.
I-90 W Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 We will have to win 6/10 for our final stretch to tie last season's 82 points. DB needs to go. His play not to lose system, his zero passion and tolerance for mediocracy is a plague.
LTS Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 A player with pride and passion for the game like Lehner is only going to bite his tongue for so long before he's going to go outside the locker room. You say he should keep it in the room but the odds are very good that's what he has been doing and it's not had an impact. There is a time when you have to let it fly in the open. The thing is, he's right. There are Sabres out there mailing it in right now. They might not like him taking it public but if they aren't responding internally maybe they will get a little sick of being asked about it from the media and do something about it. I have no doubt that Murray is aware there is a locker room problem. The question will be what gets done about it in the off season. The fact that a move hasn't been made that would address it may speak to just where the problem lies. Murray could move Kane if he wanted to so I doubt it's him. Is it Eichel? Is it the coach? Is it with some other player that can't just be moved in season? Maybe. I am sure we'll find out soon enough. Not a lot left with the season.
I-90 W Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 (edited) A player with pride and passion for the game like Lehner is only going to bite his tongue for so long before he's going to go outside the locker room. You say he should keep it in the room but the odds are very good that's what he has been doing and it's not had an impact. There is a time when you have to let it fly in the open. The thing is, he's right. There are Sabres out there mailing it in right now. They might not like him taking it public but if they aren't responding internally maybe they will get a little sick of being asked about it from the media and do something about it. I have no doubt that Murray is aware there is a locker room problem. The question will be what gets done about it in the off season. The fact that a move hasn't been made that would address it may speak to just where the problem lies. Murray could move Kane if he wanted to so I doubt it's him. Is it Eichel? Is it the coach? Is it with some other player that can't just be moved in season? Maybe. I am sure we'll find out soon enough. Not a lot left with the season. Today, 11:06 AMJust out of curiosity, why would Eichel be the problem? He hasn't been as vocal as day Lehner has been. And I haven't heard anywhere that he's a bad locker room guy. Edited March 18, 2017 by Saratoga Sabres Fan
Weave Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 A player with pride and passion for the game like Lehner is only going to bite his tongue for so long before he's going to go outside the locker room. You say he should keep it in the room but the odds are very good that's what he has been doing and it's not had an impact. There is a time when you have to let it fly in the open. The thing is, he's right. There are Sabres out there mailing it in right now. They might not like him taking it public but if they aren't responding internally maybe they will get a little sick of being asked about it from the media and do something about it. I have no doubt that Murray is aware there is a locker room problem. The question will be what gets done about it in the off season. The fact that a move hasn't been made that would address it may speak to just where the problem lies. Murray could move Kane if he wanted to so I doubt it's him. Is it Eichel? Is it the coach? Is it with some other player that can't just be moved in season? Maybe. I am sure we'll find out soon enough. Not a lot left with the season. Yup. I've been saying for weeks there is a problem with the team itself. The on ice effort shows it all too often. I'm sure there will be a number of folks who will proclaim it is all on Bylsma, but at the end of the day, a professional hockey player that isn't putting in hos best effort because of his role or the system is going to create locker room issues, and IMO it is a red flag that needs watching.
qwksndmonster Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 (edited) Yup. I've been saying for weeks there is a problem with the team itself. The on ice effort shows it all too often. I'm sure there will be a number of folks who will proclaim it is all on Bylsma, but at the end of the day, a professional hockey player that isn't putting in hos best effort because of his role or the system is going to create locker room issues, and IMO it is a red flag that needs watching.If the team feels it's being under-utilized by the coach, it's going to eventually affect their effort. These guys are human, and they're likely more pissed about the lost season than we are. This is what happens when a coach loses the room. Edited March 18, 2017 by qwksndmonster
Taro T Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 I continue to contend that the team doesn't like Lehner. What difference does it make whether the skaters like the goalie? The Habs thought Dryden was a whack job and have won exactly twice in 37 years since he retired after winning 6 in the '70's. There were Sabres that viscerally despised Hasek & he was the best goalie ever & got them to the Finals pretty much single-handedly. They loved Marty, but couldn't even make the playoffs while he was the #1.
darksabre Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 What difference does it make whether the skaters like the goalie? The Habs thought Dryden was a whack job and have won exactly twice in 37 years since he retired after winning 6 in the '70's. There were Sabres that viscerally despised Hasek & he was the best goalie ever & got them to the Finals pretty much single-handedly. They loved Marty, but couldn't even make the playoffs while he was the #1. You're acting like my argument doesn't also involve his on ice work. Regardless of his stats I still think the way he plays the position is something his teammates don't like. They have to help him too much. I imagine if you already don't like a guy off the ice, and you don't like him on the ice, then maybe you won't give two sharts about what he has to say to the media.
R_Dudley Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 If the team feels it's being under-utilized by the coach, it's going to eventually affect their effort. These guys are human, and they're likely more pissed about the lost season than we are. This is what happens when a coach loses the room. Yep, I think this is more than any one or two players could effect. It clearly just can't be 1 or 2 players making this team look as bad as it does at times. When the team turns it loose I.e. Playing from behind, that is when it looks its best and is likely allowed to abandon the primary system they are being coached.
Taro T Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 You're acting like my argument doesn't also involve his on ice work. Regardless of his stats I still think the way he plays the position is something his teammates don't like. They have to help him too much. I imagine if you already don't like a guy off the ice, and you don't like him on the ice, then maybe you won't give two sharts about what he has to say to the media. So, it's because the team doesn't like him that they were shut out AGAIN in LA? Or was it his play that led to them getting zilch there?
matter2003 Posted March 18, 2017 Author Report Posted March 18, 2017 (edited) You're acting like my argument doesn't also involve his on ice work. Regardless of his stats I still think the way he plays the position is something his teammates don't like. They have to help him too much. I imagine if you already don't like a guy off the ice, and you don't like him on the ice, then maybe you won't give two sharts about what he has to say to the media.If what they do is considered "help", I'd hate to see what hurting would be... After 70 games of: Leaving guys wide open in the slot like they are ghosts and just appeared there out of thin air.... Not paying attention to 3rd men in cruising down a wide open slot to get great scoring chances period after period... Getting peppered with the most shots per game in the NHL... Yeah...so much "help" they give him. What help are you talking about? The kind where they help dive on a loose puck in the slot because they didn't bother covering anyone so the other team gets 4 or 5 whacks at the puck? This might be one of the dumbest teams I've ever seen...they have literally not improved at all over the entire season and still allow the same things to happen over and over now as they did in game 1. With teammates like that, who needs opponents?? Edited March 18, 2017 by matter2003
LTS Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 Today, 11:06 AM Just out of curiosity, why would Eichel be the problem? He hasn't been as vocal as day Lehner has been. And I haven't heard anywhere that he's a bad locker room guy. I'm not saying he is, just that he could be. It's not about vocal, but it's clear that he isn't always out there going at 100%. I watch more than a handful of times in any single game where he plays lazy. Either his nonchalance in trying to get through defenders, his looping around after missing with a shot, his back check. He's capable of doing all of it. I've seen him work harder than most anyone else on the team when he WANTS to... but he doesn't always appear to WANT to. That said, it could be Kane. It could be ROR. It's hard to say really. It could be Lehner... quite possible. It could be that they all despise the coach or there are those who don't like Bylsma and those that support him and that creates factions in the locker room. Whatever it is.. it's real.
dudacek Posted March 19, 2017 Report Posted March 19, 2017 Yup. I've been saying for weeks there is a problem with the team itself. The on ice effort shows it all too often. I'm sure there will be a number of folks who will proclaim it is all on Bylsma, but at the end of the day, a professional hockey player that isn't putting in hos best effort because of his role or the system is going to create locker room issues, and IMO it is a red flag that needs watching. I think the problem you are speaking has developed over the course of the season. Effort hasn't really been a huge issue until the current stinky stretch. I think collectively the players believed they were better than their results, and collectively they haven't bought in to what their coach is selling. And those two factors have fed each other. Regardless of whose fault it is, these guys don't believe right now. And that is a red flag that needs watching. The most expedient way to test if it is a fatal flaw is to remove the scapegoat. Because it has become pretty clear Dan isn't going to fix it without wholesale changes to the roster.
bunomatic Posted March 19, 2017 Report Posted March 19, 2017 Bylsma should be fired for the results in Rochester. What a crappy team. And it is Bylsmas system to a certain extent. A seamless transition to the bigs they say. Teach them to win in the A and move them up seamlessly. At least thats the mantra. Works if the system is sound. Well it don't seem to be working anywhere.
Sabres Fan in NS Posted March 19, 2017 Report Posted March 19, 2017 I don't think that the players have given up on the coach. The players have given up on themselves, except for a few. If anyone has lost the room it's Gionta. Bylsma deserves better than this sorry lot.
I-90 W Posted March 20, 2017 Report Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) I don't think that the players have given up on the coach. The players have given up on themselves, except for a few. If anyone has lost the room it's Gionta. Bylsma deserves better than this sorry lot. DB has zero passion, tolerates poor performances, and has a system that doesnt fit our team. If he hasnt "lost the room", then coaches must not be accountable apparently Edited March 20, 2017 by Saratoga Sabres Fan
North Buffalo Posted March 20, 2017 Report Posted March 20, 2017 What you call fire, I call being a windbag. Its only a windbag if you don't compete hard and work hard at getting better. Lehner does appear to be trying to back up his mouth and his intensity is definitely there... So if he was just spouting off I'd agree... don't think so imo.
StuckinFL Posted March 20, 2017 Report Posted March 20, 2017 I just can't wait for this season to be over. At least with the tank years I looked forward to the off season for the draft. This year, I just want the season to be over because I'm sick of being disappointed by following this team. It's honestly sucking all the joy out of this sport for me to watch this team.
That Aud Smell Posted March 20, 2017 Report Posted March 20, 2017 I was shocked myself 30% of the voters want him to return. Gorges can be waived and his contract buried in Rochester or be bought out for only a small two year cap hit. Either way we aren't stuck with him. I also can't understand why anyone would want either glacial skating D (Gorges or Franson) back, yet 30% of the voters the D thread want Gorges back (as noted above) and only 33% of the voters on same thread want Franson gone. On further reflection, I could live with him as a third pairing guy.
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