Were Past Tank Seasons Even Over in November?

[CallawaySabres]

Because this feels worse than the tank years. When they were intentionally at the bottom, you were hoping some nice prizes would result from it. Now that the tank is over and assets have all been given away, It feels that they did it all for nothing. Just take a look at Tampa BAy without Stamkos all last year.....the Sabres are in deep trouble. There is no doubt in my mind that the rebuild was done improperly and the wrong players were targeted. I can't even believe how far ahead Toronto is on the eye test. It sucks, it pretty much just sucks.

 

I have not even watched this team the last 3 games and have sold my next 6 games already. How in the world did they mess this up so badly?

[Taro T]

Because this feels worse than the tank years. When they were intentionally at the bottom, you were hoping some nice prizes would result from it. Now that the tank is over and assets have all been given away, It feels that they did it all for nothing. Just take a look at Tampa BAy without Stamkos all last year.....the Sabres are in deep trouble. There is no doubt in my mind that the rebuild was done improperly and the wrong players were targeted. I can't even believe how far ahead Toronto is on the eye test. It sucks, it pretty much just sucks.

 

I have not even watched this team the last 3 games and have sold my next 6 games already. How in the world did they mess this up so badly?

1st off, TO has been bad ever since '05. (1 playoff trip since & that was serendipity - the season was too short for their post game 50 swoon (unless you count round 1 that year - epic fail :devil:.) So, they have far more early 20 prospects than the Sabres do.

 

2nd, they got the prize coach, Sabres got the boobie prize coach.

 

3rd, they got lucky - hit the powerball (both in Matthews & getting rid of Phaneuf & some others) & are pretty much injury free at present.

 

Change any of those 3 & they're hot garbage again. Even w/ them all, it's still questionable whether they make the playoffs this year.

 

Still wouldn't want to have walked the desert that has been their fandom since the Sabres came into being.

[LGR4GM]

Jack isn't playing and Nylander is another year away. I think Bylsma is an issue but for now patience. We are getting closer. 

[K-9]

Because this feels worse than the tank years. When they were intentionally at the bottom, you were hoping some nice prizes would result from it. Now that the tank is over and assets have all been given away, It feels that they did it all for nothing. Just take a look at Tampa BAy without Stamkos all last year.....the Sabres are in deep trouble. There is no doubt in my mind that the rebuild was done improperly and the wrong players were targeted. I can't even believe how far ahead Toronto is on the eye test. It sucks, it pretty much just sucks.

 

I have not even watched this team the last 3 games and have sold my next 6 games already. How in the world did they mess this up so badly?

Was Tampa Bay missing three other top 6 wingers and 2 top four Dmen when they were without Stamkos? Sabres = Lightning is a false equivalency. 

Edited November 18, 2016 by K-9

[Crusader1969]

Plus the TB roster is loaded with guys with NHL and play-off experience. Further, lets not pretend it's 1 injury alone. The team has been decimated, also they were doing ok before the loss of ROR.

 

Lets play this forward 3 or 4 years and see what happens if the Sabres lose Eichel for an extended time. When guys like Pu, Carrier, Baptiste, Bailey, Nylander, Guhle, Fitzgerald, Fasching, Borgen and Asplund have a couple of years experience.

 

The Rebuild is in its infancy, sucks its not going as fast  as you may have hoped but its still on track. They aren`t going to blow it up in order to have a valiant push to get 8th, no matter how much we bitch.

 

out of curiosity, what players are you disappointed in specifically?

[qwksndmonster]

Murray should've gotten more NHL depth for this roster, but even then we'd still be struggling to keep our heads above water. Losing O'Reilly, Eichel, Kulikov, and Bogosian is destroying us.

[2 minuter för grovbearbetn]

What's frustrating is that the last 2 years I expected the tank. This was really not expected. I was looking forward to competitive hockey again. And yeah I get it; we're missing key people. But so much of the team is disappointingly bad. Kane, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt last year. But you are terrible ON the ice, and you just might be an Asshat off the ice. Hard to cheer for you. And by the way, are the Sabres buying second hand sticks? Someone gets open in the slot  -  stick shatters. Trying to clear the zone - toothpicks. 

 

Football has been on the decline for me because the rules are so variably enforced I can no longer tell what is a catch, fumble, in bounds, forward pass or pass interference. Hockey is getting this way now. We clip a guy in the face, and it's 4 minutes. Clip our guy, in front of the ref: nothin. Go shoulder to shoulder with a guy to prevent a shot and a penalty shot is awarded -- in overtime. 

 

And one more thing. Our goalie typically looks very good for 60 minutes. But in overtime, the team as a whole looks terrible and we let in soft goals. 

 

Honestly, we play better on the road than at home. I feel bad for people paying to watch this. At one goal a game at home: Boring. 

Edited November 18, 2016 by 2_minutes_4_roughing

[CallawaySabres]

Plus the TB roster is loaded with guys with NHL and play-off experience. Further, lets not pretend it's 1 injury alone. The team has been decimated, also they were doing ok before the loss of ROR.

 

Lets play this forward 3 or 4 years and see what happens if the Sabres lose Eichel for an extended time. When guys like Pu, Carrier, Baptiste, Bailey, Nylander, Guhle, Fitzgerald, Fasching, Borgen and Asplund have a couple of years experience.

 

The Rebuild is in its infancy, sucks its not going as fast  as you may have hoped but its still on track. They aren`t going to blow it up in order to have a valiant push to get 8th, no matter how much we bitch.

 

out of curiosity, what players are you disappointed in specifically?

 

Every single one of them. It blows my mind how pathetic and inept this team is when it comes to scoring. 1 goal a game.....totally unacceptable on every level. I have never seen a more boring product in my life and never have I wanted to stop watching.....even in the tank years. This team flat out sucks, sorry.

[Crusader1969]

Every single one of them. It blows my mind how pathetic and inept this team is when it comes to scoring. 1 goal a game.....totally unacceptable on every level. I have never seen a more boring product in my life and never have I wanted to stop watching.....even in the tank years. This team flat out sucks, sorry.

 

Hope  you don`t think that I think they are not sucking right now, I just don`t understand how you expect anything different with all the injuries.

 

Are you saying you think things won`t improve when they get their guys back?

[Brawndo]

Im going to play Devil's Advocate and state the teams current trajectory is not sustainable. In terms of goals scored and total points yes they are similar to tank teams but there are signs of hope.

 

First their shooting percentage is 5.2, when the league average is just under 9.

 

Also at 5-on-5, Buffalo has been one of the best scoring chance generating teams in the league since the start of November, which coincides with the start of this puzzling nine-game stretch of futility. According to Corsica, the Sabres have generated roughly 56 scoring chances to 40 against. The only teams who have fared better are the Minnesota Wild and Nashville Predators, and the Sabres are in the same league as the Winnipeg Jets and Boston Bruins when it comes to chance generation.

 

The Tank Teams where historically bad in this category

 

The above is from the Hockey News.

 

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/evander-kane-says-sabres-scoring-issues-must-be-a-joke-right-now

 

Add this to the fact your two best forwards are out and the fact that 2 of your top four D Men are out, they have to get better right? Right?

Edited November 18, 2016 by BRAWNDO

[JJFIVEOH]

I understand the injuries, but there is no urgency in this team. That 3rd period was horrible. It looked like they were defending a one goal lead rather than trying to come back from two goals down.

[CallawaySabres]

Hope you don`t think that I think they are not sucking right now, I just don`t understand how you expect anything different with all the injuries.

 

Are you saying you think things won`t improve when they get their guys back?

I suppose what I am saying is that with or without their top 2 guys right now, the team is 100% pathetic. That shouldn't be without 2 guys on Offense

[LGR4GM]

Well it will be different, jack doesn't like losing

[qwksndmonster]

I suppose what I am saying is that with or without their top 2 guys right now, the team is 100% pathetic. That shouldn't be without 2 guys on Offense

You can say it like that. But Jack and O'Reilly would be eating up huuuuuge minutes. We'd go from having crappy centers to great centers overnight if they both got better right now. Not to mention 2 out of 4 of our top D-men are out.

 

This team should be better than it is right now, even with all the injuries. But even if we were well-coached, I don't think these games would look much better.

[North Buffalo]

Maybe its a make up for missing out on McDavid and Matthews, one more high end pick, I want a scorer!

[Neo]

Tank ... deliberate.

 

Bad ... unavoidable.

[mjd1001]

Current season through 17 games:

 

-- 14 points, 5 wins, 31 goals for, 45 allowed (-14)

 

 

2013-2014 season through 17 games:

 

-- 7 points, 3 wins, 31 goals for, 53 goals allowed (-22)

 

 

2014-2015 season through 17 games:

 

-- 8 points,  3 wins, 21 goals for, 60 allowed (-39)

 

 

2015-2016 season through 17 games:

 

-- 17 points, 8 wins, 40 goals for, 46 allowed (-6)

[dudacek]

So, what if the Chicago Blackhawks were missing their two best players?

And what if their second- and third-best defencemen were out, or hampered by injuries?

What if their best-rounded winger broke his ribs in the first game of the season and came back looking like a shadow of his normal self?

What if the veteran they were pencilling in to add scoring depth started the season shaking off concussion rust and then popped a hernia?

 

Wouldn't that mean their roster would look something like this?

 

Panarin/Anisimov/Motte

Hartman/Schmaltz/UselessHuskOfHossa

Desjardins/Kruger/Hinostroza

McNeill /Rasmussen/Tootoo

 

Keith/Forsling

Campbell/Kempny

Van Reimsdyk/Roszival

 

Crawford

 

Would they have fringe players on the blueline? Stone hands on the attack?

Would they be struggling to score? Criticized for their lack of depth?

Would their coach be employing an ultra-defensive system? Would that system break down due to lack of skill and experience?

Would they be a half-dozen points below where they are now in the standings?

 

I know the Sabres are not the Hawks. They are a decade behind them on the development curve.

Their best players have not hit the same heights and created the same hard salary cap decisions.

Legitimate criticisms exist about our team and were being well-articulated prior to the start of the season.

And the past month has been emotionally taxing.

 

But perhaps a dash of perspective might be useful?

The hysteria and flagellation has made hockey conversation difficult to engage in and is close to making this place impossible to read.

Edited November 19, 2016 by dudacek

[SwampD]

So, what if the Chicago Blackhawks were missing their two best players?

And what if their second- and third-best defencemen were out, or hampered by injuries?

What if their best-rounded winger broke his ribs in the first game of the season and came back looking like a shadow of his normal self.

What if the veteran they were pencilling in to add scoring depth started the season shaking off concussion rust and then popped a hernia?

 

Wouldn't that meant their roster would look something like this?

 

Panarin/Anisimov/Motte

Hartman/Schmaltz/UselessHuskOfHossa

Desjardins/Kruger/Hinostroza

McNeill /Rasmussen/Tootoo

 

Keith/Forsling

Campbell/Kempny

Van Reimsdyk/Roszival

 

Crawford

 

Would they have fringe players on the blueline? Stone hands on the attack?

Would they be struggling to score? Being criticized for their lack of depth?

Would their coach be employing an ultra-defensive system? Would that system break down due to lack of skill and experience?

Would they be a half-dozen points below where they are now in the standings?

 

I know the Sabres are not the Hawks. They are a decade behind them on the development curve.

Their best players have not hit the same heights and created the same hard salary cap decisions.

Legitimate criticisms exist about our team and were being well-articulated prior to the start of the season.

And the past month has been emotionally taxing.

 

But perhaps a dash of perspective might be useful?

The hysteria and flagellation has made hockey conversation difficult to engage in and is close to making this place impossible to read.

Wrong. Bylsma sucks.

[inkman]

So, what if the Chicago Blackhawks were missing their two best players?

And what if their second- and third-best defencemen were out, or hampered by injuries?

What if their best-rounded winger broke his ribs in the first game of the season and came back looking like a shadow of his normal self.

What if the veteran they were pencilling in to add scoring depth started the season shaking off concussion rust and then popped a hernia?

 

Wouldn't that meant their roster would look something like this?

 

Panarin/Anisimov/Motte

Hartman/Schmaltz/UselessHuskOfHossa

Desjardins/Kruger/Hinostroza

McNeill /Rasmussen/Tootoo

 

Keith/Forsling

Campbell/Kempny

Van Reimsdyk/Roszival

 

Crawford

 

Would they have fringe players on the blueline? Stone hands on the attack?

Would they be struggling to score? Being criticized for their lack of depth?

Would their coach be employing an ultra-defensive system? Would that system break down due to lack of skill and experience?

Would they be a half-dozen points below where they are now in the standings?

 

I know the Sabres are not the Hawks. They are a decade behind them on the development curve.

Their best players have not hit the same heights and created the same hard salary cap decisions.

Legitimate criticisms exist about our team and were being well-articulated prior to the start of the season.

And the past month has been emotionally taxing.

 

But perhaps a dash of perspective might be useful?

The hysteria and flagellation has made hockey conversation difficult to engage in and is close to making this place impossible to read.

I've been dying to make this point but you have done a masterful job. Any team missing 6 of their best 8 players (including Kane) for any significant time is going to be terrible.

[Stoner]

We happen to have several Schmaltzes in the lineup.

 

Seriouusly, ink, I disagree. Not all teams fall to pieces. You know Quenneville would find a way, and it would help that he's not coaching a team that was recently dunked in a big old bucket of losing culture. Bylsma did it in Pittsburgh without Crosby, Malkin and a few other key pieces FOR MONTHS. Surely one Crosby more than equals one Des, Ennis and Bogosian etc.

 

I've also been wanting to make a point, or ask a question. Is staying healthy a "talent"? Do injuries reflect inherent problems with certain players and institutional deficiencies in training, nutrition and so on? I think as fans we tend to look at injuries as bad luck, inevitable events. I'm not sure they are. Not really sure where I'm going with this. Maybe — of course we have a ton of injuries. We suck. Not the other way around?

[dudacek]

We happen to have several Schmaltzes in the lineup.

 

Seriouusly, ink, I disagree. Not all teams fall to pieces. You know Quenneville would find a way, and it would help that he's not coaching a team that was recently dunked in a big old bucket of losing culture. Bylsma did it in Pittsburgh without Crosby, Malkin and a few other key pieces FOR MONTHS. Surely one Crosby more than equals one Des, Ennis and Bogosian etc.

 

I've also been wanting to make a point, or ask a question. Is staying healthy a "talent"? Do injuries reflect inherent problems with certain players and institutional deficiencies in training, nutrition and so on? I think as fans we tend to look at injuries as bad luck, inevitable events. I'm not sure they are. Not really sure where I'm going with this. Maybe — of course we have a ton of injuries. We suck. Not the other way around?

 

Quenville might find a way to keep that team in the hunt, but on top the Western Conference?

 

The Penguins were Stanley Cup champions, not a formative-stage team "recently dunked in a bucket of losing culture"

They were without Crosby for months. The others were for bits and pieces along the way.

 

Fall to pieces? The past two weeks, maybe. Over the season, they are hanging on by their fingernails.

The Sabres have 14 points in 17 games — three points back of what last year said they were.

 

The bolded is...an interesting comparison choice. Where do O'Reilly, Eichel and Kane fit into your equation?

[TrueBlueGED]

Obviously being without Eichel for the whole year, and O'Reilly/Kulikov/Bogo/Kane for stretches, is not conducive to achieving an especially great record. But I reject the premise that the injuries prevent us from evaluating anything. I feel like those who are fighting back against the bitching (some of which is hysteria, sure, but much of it is in fact thought-out and reasoned) are, rather than being level-headed about what we can expect from a half-AHL roster, are at the opposite end of the extreme and throwing up their hands while saying we neither know, nor can know, anything. In my view, the underlying problems with the team do not vanish with a healthy roster, even if a healthy roster squeezes out more wins.

[CallawaySabres]

I don't buy it. The problem is that Kane is not good to begin with and our top 2 D are not even in the same universe as Chicago.

 

O'Reilly was not missing until 3 games ago and as far as I can see, their farm system is not ideal.

 

My fear is that they took the shortcut via trades and they missed. If Lehner does not look like a top 10 goalie......add another wasted 1st rounder.

 

By the way, what the hell happened to Girgs, he's a 4th liner on a Cup team.

Edited November 19, 2016 by CallawaySabres

[Stoner]

Quenville might find a way to keep that team in the hunt, but on top the Western Conference?

 

The Penguins were Stanley Cup champions, not a formative-stage team "recently dunked in a bucket of losing culture"

They were without Crosby for months. The others were for bits and pieces along the way.

 

Fall to pieces? The past two weeks, maybe. Over the season, they are hanging on by their fingernails.

The Sabres have 14 points in 17 games — three points back of what last year said they were.

 

The bolded is...an interesting comparison choice. Where do O'Reilly, Eichel and Kane fit into your equation?

 

In Dan Bylsma’s tenure alone, Sidney Crosby missed 121 regular season games, and Evgeni Malkin missed another 100 games. After a quick cross-reference, it brings us to 174 regular season games in which Dan Bylsma was without one or both of his premier talents.

http://www.tsn.ca/bylsma-can-stand-on-his-track-record-1.293813