Is it the Sabres' Coach or the Players?

[LGR4GM]

Why do you think the Sabres have had early season issues? Be specific. If coaching talk about the system or usage or something. If player related which players? what can we do? 

Edited October 21, 2016 by LGR4GM

[Randall Flagg]

Right now, it's injuries and Risto and Lehner and Bylsma's system pretty equally. I think those players get better by the time Jack and Kane get healthy, and if we still have problems then we get angry at Bylsma.

[K-9]

We aren't a highly skilled team with the exception of a few players. 

 

DD isn't a hockey savant. 

 

So, both. 

[DirtDart]

We aren't a highly skilled team with the exception of a few players. 

 

DD isn't a hockey savant. 

 

So, both. 

He may not be a genius, but he is a very good coach. His systems work. We have the players in the system but due to maturity, and injuries we are not quite there yet. three out of 6 points on this swing is not bad.

Edited October 21, 2016 by DirtDart

[bob_sauve28]

He may not be a genius, but he is a very good coach. His systems work. We have the players in the system but due to maturity, and injuries we are not quite there yet. three out of 6 points on this swing is not bad.

exactly 

[GASabresIUFAN]

The lineup includes two D who aren't fast enough, an unproven goaltender who looks like a bigger version of Ryan Miller with less skill and an injury depleted forward group that has only 1 line of good to elite talent.  How is that the coach's fault?

 

The better question right now is we are 1-2-1 after 4 games with a road game against Philly soon.  If we can win that we are 2-2-1 after 5 and are still treading water.  Do you think that treading water until the injured players return is good enough?

Edited October 21, 2016 by GASabresIUFAN

[PromoTheRobot]

Right now, it's injuries and Risto and Lehner and Bylsma's system pretty equally. I think those players get better by the time Jack and Kane get healthy, and if we still have problems then we get angry at Bylsma.

And we can't seem to score goals.

[GASabresIUFAN]

To those taking shots at DD, you need to remember that we were on the road and DD doesn't get the 2nd change and therefore can't necessarily get the matchups he wants.  I we start 0-5 at home then some shots at DD and his staff are justified.

[Randall Flagg]

And we can't seem to score goals.

I'm putting that on the system haha

 

Also making the distinction that we can't score 5v5 goals

Edited October 21, 2016 by Randall Flagg

[dudacek]

Talent-wise I expect this to be a playoff bubble team this year.

That is generally with Kane and Eichel in the lineup, but also with the understanding that there will be injuries.

 

The season is long, and I reserve the right to change my mind based on what I see as it unfolds.

But if we are a 70-80 point team at the end of it, I will almost certainly place a lot of the blame on the coach.

[Georgia Blizzard]

I think you judge team when healthy.  It needs to be 95+ point pace at that point.  Until then, it's too hard when you are missing 2 of your top 6 forwards.

You can properly evaluate individual players along the way, but it's not fair to judge the collective group, Bylsma or GMTM.

[Marvelo]

They need to get on a roll but the scoring just isn't there without Eichel and Kane to a lesser extent.

[mjd1001]

I don't think coaching in a (the) problem.

 

It is also too small of a sample size.  Lets get to 15-20 games, then we'll have enough info to start to make a judgement.

 

If I had to pick between coaching and the players which is a bigger weakness, I'd say the players talent.  At its best, this roster 2-3 years from now should be a top 10 team...but i'm not its elite.  A lot depends on how good Eichel and Sam turn out to be.  If this team is going to be elite, Eichel has to be clearly a top 5 offensive talent, and Sam must be a all-star level player. 

[Stoner]

The lineup includes two D who aren't fast enough, an unproven goaltender who looks like a bigger version of Ryan Miller with less skill and an injury depleted forward group that has only 1 line of good to elite talent.  How is that the coach's fault?

 

The better question right now is we are 1-2-1 after 4 games with a road game against Philly soon.  If we can win that we are 2-2-1 after 5 and are still treading water.  Do you think that treading water until the injured players return is good enough?

Losing Evander effin Kane and a second-year player, as good as he is, shouldn't lower the expectations to "treading water." If this team can't win on a regular basis with a few key injuries, Murray didn't do a very good job of building it. It's not an excuse for other teams, and it shouldn't be one for us. Harsh? I suppose. But this was the year we had a real NHL team again.

 

And we can't seem to score goals.

I swear with the exception of a stretch here or there, we've been saying this since 1993.

Edited October 21, 2016 by PASabreFan

[That Aud Smell]

I don't know what combination of coach/players is contributing to the 1-3 (1-2-1) start, but I do know this: Like a magic eye that had thwarted my visual comprehension, I am now seeing that I do not like the style of o-zone entry that Bylsma has installed -- I am seeing that many other teams in the NHL place a far greater premium on possessing the puck (rather than surrendering possession and chasing it).

But this was the year we had a real NHL team again.

 

Actually, I think that may be next year. Or 2018.

 

Stay tuned.

[Stoner]

I don't know what combination of coach/players is contributing to the 1-3 (1-2-1) start, but I do know this: Like a magic eye that had thwarted my visual comprehension, I am now seeing that I do not like the style of o-zone entry that Bylsma has installed -- I am seeing that many other teams in the NHL place a far greater premium on possessing the puck (rather than surrendering possession and chasing it).

It is a bit mind-bending, innit?, what with all the fancy stats and slavish adherence to "possession." My late, great pappy, who wasn't a huge hockey fan, used to get so frustrated watching the dump and chase, then the feverish scramble for the puck behind the goal line. Even when the Sabres would regain the puck and start cycling, he'd say, "You can't score from behind the net!" He'd also yell "shoot!" I'm not sure he was wrong about any of it.

[LGR4GM]

Nail Yakupov scored last night... in the NHL... in the opposing teams goal... with a puck.. he scored an actual hockey goal. 

[rakish]

Anybody have a better source for highlights? Yahoo only keeps theirs around for a day or two. Anyway this is http://sports.yahoo.com/video/buf-van-054226706.html

 

My preconceived belief is that Murray doesn't get enough talent (defense not good enough, depth not good enough) and Bylsma doesn't use players well. We'll look at the two goals so you can watch me jam my preconceived beliefs into what actually happened.

 

The Bogo goal. This is the downside to carrying the puck in. If you fail, there's often an odd man rush the other way. Bogo makes a bad pass to Baptiste, then somehow allows the Vancouver forward by him making it a Vancouver 2-1. Notice on the play Grant picks up the next trailer, something that someone who gets 15 minutes a game does.

 

The PP goal. It's half way through the 3rd period on a night that Bylsma's best player will play 25 minutes. Watch O'Reilly on the PK, he has stopped moving because he is dead tired. Why are you using someone who plays too much on the PK? Vancouver makes some nice passes, it goes in the net. Similarly, the overtime goal in Calgary, another game that O'Reilly was on the ice for too many minutes followed by him being beat at the end.

 

Outside the goals, there's a lot of bad defensive plays. In clip 1 of the highlights, Kulikov almost kicks in his own net, Lehner makes a good save. Clip 2 looks like a power play because McCabe is lost, but the puck doesn't get into the net. Clip 3 of the highlights Kulikov pinches on a power play, Ennis coughs up puck, creating a 3-1 shorthanded, McCabe makes a real nice play. Reinhart backhands puck into slot (it must have been tipped), Granland beats Gionta and Risto behind net, Lehner makes a good save.

[beerme1]

A bad pinch by Kuli, a bone head d play by Jake on the second goal where he took neither the shooter nor the second guy out of the play.

Is Nolan still available?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Losing Evander effin Kane and a second-year player, as good as he is, shouldn't lower the expectations to "treading water." If this team can't win on a regular basis with a few key injuries, Murray didn't do a very good job of building it. It's not an excuse for other teams, and it shouldn't be one for us. Harsh? I suppose. But this was the year we had a real NHL team again.

 

I swear with the exception of a stretch here or there, we've been saying this since 1993.

 

Actually it should.  Losing our entire second line changed the structure of the team.  It elevated a line that is going to score 40 goals (Larsson's line) for the season to replace a line that had the skill to score 80.  That's a huge change in your lineup.  It allows opposing coaches to create better matchups against the top line since they no longer have to worry about a 2nd scoring line.  In addition the injuries have placed players in the lineup daily that should be sitting in the pressbox.  

 

These aren't injuries to 3rd and 4th line players that can more easily be replaced by callups and line shuffling.  These are key players to the success of the team.  

[LGR4GM]

we clearly need more talent all around. 

[That Aud Smell]

It is a bit mind-bending, innit?, what with all the fancy stats and slavish adherence to "possession." My late, great pappy, who wasn't a huge hockey fan, used to get so frustrated watching the dump and chase, then the feverish scramble for the puck behind the goal line. Even when the Sabres would regain the puck and start cycling, he'd say, "You can't score from behind the net!" He'd also yell "shoot!" I'm not sure he was wrong about any of it.

 

i'm a believer that the #fancystats essentially show, in numerical form, that which keen eyes would otherwise see. your pappy knew what was up.

 

they key, it seems, is to have keen eyes (or several sets of keen eyes).

[qwksndmonster]

I think in order to absorb the loss of Eichel the lines need to be balanced better (Samson at center). I also think that without Eichel to carry the puck in, Bylsma's emphasis on dump and chase is magnified.

 

McCabe, Kulikov, and Bogo have been looking good enough to give Risto more rest. Risto has always been a methodical player, and last year it was clear that Byslma was leaning on him hard, so it was kinda justified to have Risto flip the puck in once he gets across the red line.

 

But Risto needs to become more aggressive, and Bylsma needs to coach Risto to play to his strengths. Play Risto with Kulikov, and tell him to keep the puck on the rush as often as he can.

 

The problem might be, at its core, that Bylsma isn't aggressive enough.

[3putt]

^ this.

[R_Dudley]

I will agree it's early in the season and some key players are missing but having seen DD coach here in PGH for many years I will say some of the observations and concerns are valid and a reason that he is no longer the Penguins coach. I also wonder if the loss of last years assistant coach has effected some of the play.  

 

He may be a coach that gets us to the playoff's but the team that won a cup under him was Michael Therians not his and if he did not learn anything after his firing from the Penguins I'm not sure if he is a cup winning coach. 

Edited October 21, 2016 by R_dudly