GDT: Buffalo at Calgary, 9:00 PM ET, 10/18/2016

[TrueBlueGED]

Prove it. :P

 

I have a sneaking suspicion I couldn't prove it to you ;)

 

Paul Hamilton ‏@pham1717  8m8 minutes ago

Bylsma felt disappointing part of the game was not capitalizing on the 5-on-3.

 

Gee, Dan, if only you had some impact on the likelihood of 5-on-3 success.

[dudacek]

Real in and out game. I saw that good road game at times, but I also saw too many breakdowns.

Game turned on Chad's big save on Reinhart and Lehner's whiff on Tkachuk (who looks every inch the cocky prick his old man was).

 

Special teams, improving Kulikov, speed potential shown by Baptiste/Girgensons/Ennis in their brief glimpses were some of the things I liked. Another sketchy game for Franson, Bogosian with his worst effort of the young season. I expect Gorges to treat the puck like a hand grenade. These guys can and should be better.

 

I like the way Dan leads his team and I'm still on the fence about his system.

But his player usage? Putting Gionta out there with the big three for the 4-on-3 late? Making sure Risto KO and ROR weren't available for the 5-on-3 portion. Having Derek Grant out for that key 5-on-3?

 

OT isn't complicated: you use your best six forwards and three D, best being defined as the three guys most likely to get the puck and hang on to it. That's never Gorges.

 

It's ROR and Okposo, Kane and Eichel, Reinhart and Ennis. It's Risto, McCabe and Kulikov.

It's not complicated.

Edited October 19, 2016 by dudacek

[Sabel79]

Would he have gotten them in OT? That cross check happens all game long when two guys are fighting for the puck at the boards. I can see why there wasn't a call.

So it would have been a penalty in regulation then?

[Randall Flagg]

I'll say it again - last season, we got zero of these four points. This season we got three of them without Jack and Evander. Positive steps. I want two from Vancouver on Thursday.

 

I love the way our players play. There was a lot of energy and passion out there. I don't love the way our players our coached, which I'll get into further in a bit.

 

Really felt like the refs tilted this one. I'm a believer that that kind of thing will even out, but we won't notice it because we'll be celebrating the goals/wins. Edmonton's forum sounded a lot like this one after the game on Sunday.

 

Calgary had the best OT record in the league last year and we do not have a team built to play 3 on 3, so once regulation ended I don't think we had a chance. I would have called the board on Reinhart if I was a ref and it was a hit by a Blue Jacket on a Coyote. But Samson should have passed that puck earlier, and should have gotten back up and played. 

The only thing on the planet ROR isn't good at is 3 on 3, and he still isn't bad at it.

Okposo is better at skating, passing, and defense than I thought he was. He is an incredibly smart player. 

 

Kulikov was our best defenseman tonight, McCabe rebounded from a tough first. Risto is slowly getting better, but is not in the form we need him in yet. Gorges snuffed out a few rushes and some plays, but is spectacularly bad when the puck is on his stick. We all know this already, I'm just pointing it out. He didn't lose us anything tonight.

 

Foligno, please let this be the real you. Larsson is still good, and didn't trip Gaudreau. Hope Enzo is okay.

The LA Kings have two very, very good distributing and zone-entering centers, and several two-way defensemen that pair with hardcore defensive defensemen that can shut down anyone but look like Gorges with the puck on their sticks. They know this, and they draft these huge fast wingers to go get pucks in the offensive zone whenever Kopitar and Carter don't have opportunities for clean zone entries. They know what they have, and they built a successful system around it, and drafted to supplement the system. We have a Fasching to prove it. The Hawks and Penguins are "soft" and play lightning fast hockey (Penguins in pure straight-line speed up the ice, Hawks in Globetrotter style puck movement) and draft accordingly. They also load up their defenses with players who can move pucks fast and accurately. It's what their players can do. The Sabres look like the slowest team in the league, not because their players can't go fast in a straight line, but because they do this thing where the defensemen pass the puck around looking for a perfect stretch pass, which are rare because the time it takes to settle it down is more than enough for other teams to clog the neutral zone, and then everyone stands still. None of the forwards cross, they go up the wing and wait. The result is a pass that is chipped into the zone behind the defensemen the way Bylsma likes it, and players who aren't built like LA wingers and are starting from a complete halt can't get the puck. Our 5 v 5 numbers right now are Absolutely BRUTAL. This is why. We never enter the zone with the puck. Kulikov, Risto, McCabe now, and sometimes Bogo, and Franson, can all make outlet passes if given the system in which to do so. This team is not being coached in accordance with what its players can do.

And they still look pretty good sometimes, because there are good players here. 

Between this stuff and the very questionable player usage that we've all talked about, all of this going back to last season, so not just being concluded on a 3 game stretch, I think Disco Dan has to go. I don't see what he says he learned in his year off. I see the same thing he did in Pittsburgh. 

We also haven't scored a 5 on 3 goal in his tenure here. There have to have been at least 20 different attempts at it. At least. Already 2 extended ones this season. This might not be on him, but after a year of it, and seeing Grant flub a play that cost us a chance at setting up the 5 on 3, I lost my . 

GMTM, find a coach that can get the best out of this team, because there's a lot of good here and I think we can go places when we get Jack and Evander back.

[7+6=13]

I can't remember a game where the referees where in the way more than in this game.  Obviously it cost us big on the Foligno turn over but I was saying it prior.  They were in some odd positions tonight. 

[Norcal]

Chit, atleast they got a point

[Randall Flagg]

Ristolainen got over 25 minutes tonight. DAN. YOU DON"T NEED TO DO THAT. DUMP SOME OFF ON THE OTHER TOP 4 MEMBERS.

 

ROR got TWENTY SIX MINUTES AND FOUR SECONDS. WITH BACK INJURIES. 

Sorry for shouting. But Bylsma is going to murder our best forward. This has to stop.

[dudacek]

Flagg, you know I could never yell at you. :wub:

 

Good breakdown on the zone entry; do you think it will work better when Kane, Bailey, Baptiste, Fasching and Nylander have replaced Gionta, Deslauriers, Moulson, Ennis and Reinhart (moved to centre) as our wingers?

[Tondas]

I'll say it again - last season, we got zero of these four points. This season we got three of them without Jack and Evander. Positive steps. I want two from Vancouver on Thursday.

 

I love the way our players play. There was a lot of energy and passion out there. I don't love the way our players our coached, which I'll get into further in a bit.

 

Really felt like the refs tilted this one. I'm a believer that that kind of thing will even out, but we won't notice it because we'll be celebrating the goals/wins. Edmonton's forum sounded a lot like this one after the game on Sunday.

 

Calgary had the best OT record in the league last year and we do not have a team built to play 3 on 3, so once regulation ended I don't think we had a chance. I would have called the board on Reinhart if I was a ref and it was a hit by a Blue Jacket on a Coyote. But Samson should have passed that puck earlier, and should have gotten back up and played. 

 

The only thing on the planet ROR isn't good at is 3 on 3, and he still isn't bad at it.

 

Okposo is better at skating, passing, and defense than I thought he was. He is an incredibly smart player. 

 

Kulikov was our best defenseman tonight, McCabe rebounded from a tough first. Risto is slowly getting better, but is not in the form we need him in yet. Gorges snuffed out a few rushes and some plays, but is spectacularly bad when the puck is on his stick. We all know this already, I'm just pointing it out. He didn't lose us anything tonight.

 

Foligno, please let this be the real you. Larsson is still good, and didn't trip Gaudreau. Hope Enzo is okay.

 

The LA Kings have two very, very good distributing and zone-entering centers, and several two-way defensemen that pair with hardcore defensive defensemen that can shut down anyone but look like Gorges with the puck on their sticks. They know this, and they draft these huge fast wingers to go get pucks in the offensive zone whenever Kopitar and Carter don't have opportunities for clean zone entries. They know what they have, and they built a successful system around it, and drafted to supplement the system. We have a Fasching to prove it. The Hawks and Penguins are "soft" and play lightning fast hockey (Penguins in pure straight-line speed up the ice, Hawks in Globetrotter style puck movement) and draft accordingly. They also load up their defenses with players who can move pucks fast and accurately. It's what their players can do. The Sabres look like the slowest team in the league, not because their players can't go fast in a straight line, but because they do this thing where the defensemen pass the puck around looking for a perfect stretch pass, which are rare because the time it takes to settle it down is more than enough for other teams to clog the neutral zone, and then everyone stands still. None of the forwards cross, they go up the wing and wait. The result is a pass that is chipped into the zone behind the defensemen the way Bylsma likes it, and players who aren't built like LA wingers and are starting from a complete halt can't get the puck. Our 5 v 5 numbers right now are Absolutely BRUTAL. This is why. We never enter the zone with the puck. Kulikov, Risto, McCabe now, and sometimes Bogo, and Franson, can all make outlet passes if given the system in which to do so. This team is not being coached in accordance with what its players can do.

 

And they still look pretty good sometimes, because there are good players here. 

 

Between this stuff and the very questionable player usage that we've all talked about, all of this going back to last season, so not just being concluded on a 3 game stretch, I think Disco Dan has to go. I don't see what he says he learned in his year off. I see the same thing he did in Pittsburgh. 

 

We also haven't scored a 5 on 3 goal in his tenure here. There have to have been at least 20 different attempts at it. At least. Already 2 extended ones this season. This might not be on him, but after a year of it, and seeing Grant flub a play that cost us a chance at setting up the 5 on 3, I lost my ######. 

 

GMTM, find a coach that can get the best out of this team, because there's a lot of good here and I think we can go places when we get Jack and Evander back.

 

Great and well written post.  I agee with all of it with the the execption of firing DD.   I think he is a good coach and wlll grow with team.

[Randall Flagg]

Flagg, you know I could never yell at you. :wub:

 

Good breakdown on the zone entry; do you think it will work better when Kane, Bailey, Baptiste, Fasching and Nylander have replaced Gionta, Deslauriers, Moulson, Ennis and Reinhart (moved to centre) as our wingers?

:wub:  And I really, really like Josh the person and think he has a place here in the right situations! Just had to point it out after the almost-2-on-0.

 

Yes I do, but my personal preference is to avoid that stuff altogether. When everyone is healthy, you imagine ROR playing with Okposo, and those guys can enter the zone 100 different ways in a single game. It's awesome. They should do that. Eichel's line should give him the puck and watch him fly, getting in the proper positions to help make plays (Reinhart) and bury rebounds (whoever can keep up). Larsson's line can chip a bit more, but he can definitely get into the zone without it. That line seems to know exactly how to decide between the available options, aside from the occasional Foligno attempt to be Lemieux. Fourth line, whatever. Depends on who's on it. As a team, I really want to take advantage of the skill sets that I believe our defensemen have, puck movement. 

Great and well written post.  I agee with all of it with the the execption of firing DD.   I think he is a good coach and wlll grow with team.

Thank you. I hope you're right if we keep him, but I don't see anything different from what Pens fans said. 

 

There is a very real problem of finding a suitable replacement though. I don't want to fire him now if there isn't a guy GMTM likes available. I just don't think he should be coaching this team.

[beerme1]

Randall I love your thoughts even though I may throw some water on them. DD is dealing witha  massive problem right now minus Jack, minus Kane. There is an obvious problem though if your stat is right re 5 on 3 that's really screwed up and not acceptable regardless the personel we have on the ice. it's 5 on 3!!!

 

To those bitching about Grant, stop. If he is the new Matt Ellis I have far more confidence in him. He set somone up perfectly in front of the net who should have sored on it. He has size and I have no problem giving him 8-10 minutes a night from what I've seen.

 

Holy after the opener against Montreal I'm pretty ok with where we are. If we beat the Canucks and come out of those three games with 5 points, shut your mouth.

[Tondas]

I like our d now.  I get the Franson hate, but I like him in better than Nelson.  I would like a look at Guhle though.

[North Buffalo]

So it would have been a penalty in regulation then?

Probably, but Reinhardt learned a valuable lesson... You are not going to get that call in another teams barn in OT.  Can't expect it.  Won't happen in the playoffs either... probably not in regulation either.  Can't sit there and turn your back like that... 

[SwampD]

To those bitching about Grant, stop.

Absolutely.

[Randall Flagg]

Randall I love your thoughts even though I may throw some water on them. DD is dealing witha  massive problem right now minus Jack, minus Kane. There is an obvious problem though if your stat is right re 5 on 3 that's really screwed up and not acceptable regardless the personel we have on the ice. it's 5 on 3!!!

 

To those bitching about Grant, stop. If he is the new Matt Ellis I have far more confidence in him. He set somone up perfectly in front of the net who should have sored on it. He has size and I have no problem giving him 8-10 minutes a night from what I've seen.

 

Holy ###### after the opener against Montreal I'm pretty ok with where we are. If we beat the Canucks and come out of those three games with 5 points, shut your mouth.

I'm not sure who does the power plays on this team, or who did them last year. I mean, they produce very well 5 on 4. The 5 on 3 thing is inexplicable. I have no idea why they're so bad at it.

 

I don't think anyone is mad at Grant himself. He's just getting ice time that he shouldn't be, it's not his fault.

 

We're in a good spot right now, yes. Coming back from Western Canda 2-1-1 would be awesome, going into Philly to play a team that just allowed 7 goals. We still have loads to be excited about 

[beerme1]

Absolutely.

 

 

I forgot to mention, dude seems to win faceoffs too!

[Tondas]

Randall I love your thoughts even though I may throw some water on them. DD is dealing witha  massive problem right now minus Jack, minus Kane. There is an obvious problem though if your stat is right re 5 on 3 that's really screwed up and not acceptable regardless the personel we have on the ice. it's 5 on 3!!!

 

To those bitching about Grant, stop. If he is the new Matt Ellis I have far more confidence in him. He set somone up perfectly in front of the net who should have sored on it. He has size and I have no problem giving him 8-10 minutes a night from what I've seen.

 

Holy ###### after the opener against Montreal I'm pretty ok with where we are. If we beat the Canucks and come out of those three games with 5 points, shut your mouth.

 

 

True.  Hard to say that game 4 of the season is important, But I think it is.

[Randall Flagg]

I definitely want to clarify that I'm 100% mad at Bylsma, I think Grant has done fine, everything he can do. He's been good in his PK minutes. My complaints with regard to him are solely related to his deployment, which again, he does not control.

[Hawerchuk]

I'm still mystified how they allow Calgary's first goal especially when there was a whistle before the puck crosses the line and the ref immediately waving it off. Seriously, wtf? Toronto doesn't get a look review either?!! Totally blown!! Sabres should have gotten 2pts tonight. 

[beerme1]

I definitely want to clarify that I'm 100% mad at Bylsma, I think Grant has done fine, everything he can do. He's been good in his PK minutes. My complaints with regard to him are solely related to his deployment, which again, he does not control.

 

This is an absolute legitimate complaint. Much like whenever I saw Matt Ellis on the ice when I paid NHL ticket prices. That's on management. GMTM and Coach need to figure that out so you're good. Rant on!  

[North Buffalo]

P.S. Grant is okay... good on face offs, he played better this game.... I see him more a goose kinda player... but there are flashes of something else... maybe it will come out with more confidence and ice time.  DD puts him out on the penalty kill and he seems to do well.  Offensively... not so much and really I want our big guys to hit more... this includes especially Grant and Fasching.  Watch Foligno.. 

Edited October 19, 2016 by North Buffalo

[Tondas]

I'm still mystified how they allow Calgary's first goal especially when there was a whistle before the puck crosses the line and the ref immediately waving it off. Seriously, wtf? Toronto doesn't get a look review either?!! Totally blown!! Sabres should have gotten 2pts tonight.

 

Totally agree.  I 've heard the "intent to blow the whistle" excuse for years.  Now it's no longer case.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Tondas

[Hoss]

I like our d now. I get the Franson hate, but I like him in better than Nelson. I would like a look at Guhle though.

Franson is terrible and Nelson isn't the answer to him. Guhle can no longer get the look this year. Only way he plays for the Sabres this year is either in an emergency recall which won't happen because they'll go to Rochester or make a transaction for that OR after his junior season ends.

[Tondas]

P.S. Grant is okay... good on face offs, he played better this game.... I see him more a goose kinda player... but there are flashes of something else... maybe it will come out with more confidence and ice time.  DD puts him out on the penalty kill and he seems to do well.  Offensively... not so much and really I want our big guys to hit more... this includes especially Grant and Fasching.  Watch Foligno.. 

 

I think if Fasching is not top 6, he's not a bottom 6.  Rochester is where he needs to be.

Franson is terrible and Nelson isn't the answer to him. Guhle can no longer get the look this year. Only way he plays for the Sabres this year is either in an emergency recall which won't happen because they'll go to Rochester or make a transaction for that OR after his junior season ends.

 

You're right.  I am not really versed in the business side of the business.  Thanks for the expertise.

[North Buffalo]

I think if Fasching is not top 6, he's not a bottom 6.  Rochester is where he needs to be.

He seems to do well in corners and has speed, just seems like he is playing too much shinney for a big man.  Boy needs to play like Calgary's Tchakuk.  Enno seemed fine after the his...