Leafs rebuild vs Sabres rebuild: Which will be better sooner and which will be better longer?

[dudacek]

No. I think he got him to score 30 goals a season playing Rico to Jack's Gilbert.

That vision is why you didn't get your defenceman.

[GASabresIUFAN]

No. I think he got him to score 30 goals a season playing Rico to Jack's Gilbert.

That vision is why you didn't get your defenceman.

No question that was the primary motivation and likely after the summer Kane was having, TM wanted Kane replacement insurance.  However, considering how in your face TM is, I  have to think the rivalry entered his mind when making hte selection.  

[Sabres Fan in NS]

It was so worth it.

 

You summed it up perfectly in those 5 small words.

[I-90 W]

Do you think GMTM drafted Nylander partly to fuel the rivalry with the Leafs?

Between the close proximity, them invading our arena every road game, and the Eichel/ Matthews thing, no extra fuel needed.

[LGR4GM]

I think he expected Nylander to go in the 5 or 6 slot and so delightfully took him at 8

Edited May 11, 2017 by LGR4GM

[MattPie]

If a bunker is Sabrespace slang for the thing we use when we hate a player, what is the opposite of that? Because whatever it is, I'm starting one for Alex Nylander.

 

 

Bungalow? Rooftop Deck? Gazebo?

[Randall Flagg]

I think he existed Nylander to go in Tyne 5 or 6 slot and so delightfully took him at 8

Yeah, I remember feeling that Nylander was BPA for a lot of people at that point. I don't think I'd trade him for anyone taken after right now. (Except McAvoy but he definitely wasn't in the conversation at 8)

[LGR4GM]

Yeah, I remember feeling that Nylander was BPA for a lot of people at that point. I don't think I'd trade him for anyone taken after right now. (Except McAvoy but he definitely wasn't in the conversation at 8)

Only been a year, McAvoy was more physically ready.

[nfreeman]

In general, I think his skill set translates beautifully to the way the league currently plays. Fast, skilled, hockey sense. For a few reasons, I think the AHL was the worst place for him to be last season, and a lot of opinions have soured on him as a result. The AHL is a more physical league than the NHL (and physical development is Nylander's biggest weakness), the Amerks have been a mess for awhile now, and were playing Bylsma's useless system. He wasn't ready, and he was in a crap situation.

 

As to why I'm so high on him long term, I think he's perfect for one of Eichel's wings. Eichel needs a guy with speed and skill, but more importantly, high end hockey sense to play off him and finish the chances he creates. This is Nylander to a T. Taking into account accuracy and quick release, I think his shot is second to only Eichel's in the organization. I think he had the smarts to find open ice when Eichel drifts left like he loves to do, and finish off the beautiful saucers. If he shot left it'd be a little better for one timers, but Alex had the hands to corral and release regardless. He's going to make magic with Eichel a lot sooner than his play in the A would indicate.

 

 

 

Well, it seems like there's quite a bit of optimism/trusting in scouting reports in here that hasn't been shown at the NHL level, but I sure hope you're right.

 

 

By "that good" I think n meant "Leon-Draisaitl-good"

 

Yes indeedly.

 

 

No. I think he got him to score 30 goals a season playing Rico to Jack's Gilbert.

That vision is why you didn't get your defenceman.

 

Wouldn't that be sweet.

 

If XGMTM turns out to have been right about this and about Lehner, it will go a long way toward preserving a respectable legacy for him here.

 

 

Bungalow? Rooftop Deck? Gazebo?

 

I'm thinking either a cabana or a suite.

[rakish]

I think Buffalo will be better this year because Murray traded many of his (often iffy) assets for players in their prime, therefore, Buffalo is a much older team in the rebuild cycle. Toronto has fewer players like O'Reilly and Kane

 

About 15 or 20 years ago, Detroit understood that there was a valuation imbalance in drafting, and that imbalance regarded Euros. They did some scouting, and were able to put together great teams for many years because of the rest of the league's Don Cherry mentality. That valuation imbalance has, for the most part, disappeared a few year ago.

 

The current valuation imbalance is the use of data in drafting. The Leafs are killing everyone else at the draft table. It's really not close. What I get when I analyze the past 5 drafts is that most teams will have 7 good NHL players from those 5 drafts. Buffalo's 7, Eichel, Risto, Reinhart, Nylander, Borgan, McCabe, Asplund. Where you divide the 'good NHL player' from 'not' is somewhat arbitrary. Most NHL teams have about 7, the Rangers have about 0, the Blue Jackets and the Coyotes have about 10. Toronto has 14. This means that Toronto is bringing in 5 good NHL players this year, 5 good NHL players next year, and 5 good NHL players the year after that. Buffalo will be bringing in 1 to 2. The question for me isn't is Eichel better than Mathews, the question is can a team with marginal NHL hockey players (think Foligno, Casey Nelson, Gionta, etc) compete with a team that doesn't have a depth problem.

 

I wanted to revisit the post above because I don't think people are realizing the magnitude of the difference between the Sabres and the Leafs. You saw what adding 5 rookies was like last year, they will again be adding 5 rookies again this year, we will see if the prediction about next year will hold up next year. While no one this year will be a Calder Candidate like the 3 last year, they have 5 prospects coming while Buffalo has 1 (Guhle sp?).

 

The big effect will be this:

 

 

...

 

However, I think their cap management has benefited greatly from simply having a bunch of really good players on their ELCs.  Their 3 best forwards -- one superstar, one star and one maybe-star -- are all dirt cheap.  They also haven't yet had to bite the bullet and decide whether to give a decent but not great homegrown player a fat extension (although if those are Sweet Lou's decisions, he'll probably continue to be ruthless about it and generally make the right calls).

 

We'll see.  This story is far from written.  Certainly the Leafs are ahead now though.

 

As the Leafs' dead contracts disappear, they will be able to add an important piece this summer. Oshie? Fleury? Radulov? The guy in Russia...what's his name...Kovalchuk (I'm not saying Kovalchuk is a great idea, I'm saying they got options)

 

The good news is that the Sabres' 2016 draft was good (but not great). Do two more drafts like that in 2017 and 2018, and you will have something.

[LGR4GM]

I wanted to revisit the post above because I don't think people are realizing the magnitude of the difference between the Sabres and the Leafs. You saw what adding 5 rookies was like last year, they will again be adding 5 rookies again this year, we will see if the prediction about next year will hold up next year. While no one this year will be a Calder Candidate like the 3 last year, they have 5 prospects coming while Buffalo has 1 (Guhle sp?).

 

The big effect will be this:

 

 

 

As the Leafs' dead contracts disappear, they will be able to add an important piece this summer. Oshie? Fleury? Radulov? The guy in Russia...what's his name...Kovalchuk (I'm not saying Kovalchuk is a great idea, I'm saying they got options)

 

The good news is that the Sabres' 2016 draft was good (but not great). Do two more drafts like that in 2017 and 2018, and you will have something.

My thoughts are aligning more with on this. I think Buffalo needs to continue using all their 1-3rd round picks. They need to stock that pool and it is currently very light on guys. I think part of that has to do with the sell off in 2013/2014 and the subsequent wait time for guys to develop (3-5 years)

[Crusader1969]

I wanted to revisit the post above because I don't think people are realizing the magnitude of the difference between the Sabres and the Leafs. You saw what adding 5 rookies was like last year, they will again be adding 5 rookies again this year, we will see if the prediction about next year will hold up next year. While no one this year will be a Calder Candidate like the 3 last year, they have 5 prospects coming while Buffalo has 1 (Guhle sp?).

 

The big effect will be this:

 

 

 

As the Leafs' dead contracts disappear, they will be able to add an important piece this summer. Oshie? Fleury? Radulov? The guy in Russia...what's his name...Kovalchuk (I'm not saying Kovalchuk is a great idea, I'm saying they got options)

 

The good news is that the Sabres' 2016 draft was good (but not great). Do two more drafts like that in 2017 and 2018, and you will have something.

 

 

They have Bozak, JVR and Komarov coming up as UFA's at the end of 2017/18 - big pieces that need to be moved or re-signed. They will also have Nylander coming off his ELC. 

 

If you ranked the top prospects from the Sabres and Leafs I'd say Nylander, Guhle and Pu and Asplund are 4 out of the top 5.  who are the 5 rookes that will be added next year? Kapanen - not sure who else.

[rakish]

this is who I had in mind:

 

ANDREW NIELSEN, TRAVIS DERMOTT, KASPERI KAPANEN, BRENDAN LEIPSIC, RINAT VALIYEV

[GASabresIUFAN]

this is who I had in mind:

 

ANDREW NIELSEN, TRAVIS DERMOTT, KASPERI KAPANEN, BRENDAN LEIPSIC, RINAT VALIYEV

What about Rychel?

[rakish]

Leipsic, Griffith, and Kapenen outscored him (on a per game basis). Rychel came in 29th among forwards in his draftclass. So he and Gundstrom are also possibilities fairly soon. I draw a random line, which is 20th.

 

Looking at it more closely, I'm surprised the model like Valiyev.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Leafs add more depth yesterday.  They signed two young Swedish D to 2 year entry level deals.  The players are Calle Rosen, 23 and SHL ROY Andreas Borgman, 21.  Borgman had 10pts in 14 playoff games to help his team to the SHL championship.

 

And we can't find a way to get Antipin inked.

[Sabre fan]

Leafs add more depth yesterday.  They signed two young Swedish D to 2 year entry level deals.  The players are Calle Rosen, 23 and SHL ROY Andreas Borgman, 21.  Borgman had 10pts in 14 playoff games to help his team to the SHL championship.

 

And we can't find a way to get Antipin inked.

Yep...Antinpin was player of the game for Russia yesterday...while Leafs get stronger I fear we will lose out on Antinpin. That would be a big blow right about now