Leafs rebuild vs Sabres rebuild: Which will be better sooner and which will be better longer?

[LGR4GM]

Well, I was correct about defensive depth. I think our coach is a detriment to our current team. We need defense. Our forwards are on par in my mind.

 

The key is fixing the defense, without that Toronto is superior.

In that case, Foligno is a placeholder for Nylander or Baptiste.

Or Justin Bailey

[ct fab]

Antipin, guhle and a FA dman should make this team a lot better. Hopefully (though not likely) a real coach too

[inkman]

Antipin, guhle and a FA dman should make this team a lot better. Hopefully (though not likely) a real coach too

I really don't think Antipin belongs in this conversation yet. He's a huge unknown.

[Thorner]

Antipin, guhle and a FA dman should make this team a lot better. Hopefully (though not likely) a real coach too

GMTM needs to bring in a good defenceman by trade this offseason.

[LGR4GM]

I really don't think Antipin belongs in this conversation yet. He's a huge unknown.

I agree. We should hope for the best but prepare for the worst (Marc Andre-Graganani)

[Randall Flagg]

At this point, from management to coaching to players, the Leafs are far, far ahead. It's incredible what kind of production they're getting from their young kids. They still have Dermott and Bracco and a few really good forward prospects on the way. Matthews and Marner and Nylander all have loads of room to grow. They have their ROR (Kadri) but have him at $4 mil and didn't have to trade anything to get him. The amount of assets they have while icing the team they do make me embarrassed about the 14-15 team (which I was already embarrassed about).

 

They will be the class of our division for a long time. We will hopefully be Philly to their Pittsburgh. But we have loads of work to even get to that point.

[respk]

At this point, from management to coaching to players, the Leafs are far, far ahead. It's incredible what kind of production they're getting from their young kids. They still have Dermott and Bracco and a few really good forward prospects on the way. Matthews and Marner and Nylander all have loads of room to grow. They have their ROR (Kadri) but have him at $4 mil and didn't have to trade anything to get him. The amount of assets they have while icing the team they do make me embarrassed about the 14-15 team (which I was already embarrassed about).

 

They will be the class of our division for a long time. We will hopefully be Philly to their Pittsburgh. But we have loads of work to even get to that point.

I'm not sure we can make enough changes in one off season to make the playoffs.  Talent wise we're just too far behind and too close to the cap. Even if we add the defensemen we need for next year, the forwards aren't up to the task. That leaves the Sabres with the likely scenario that they start off slow and Bylsma is fired during the season and, unless there is a miraculous turn around, miss the playoffs again. 

[Stoner]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A

[TrueBlueGED]

I'm not sure we can make enough changes in one off season to make the playoffs. Talent wise we're just too far behind and too close to the cap. Even if we add the defensemen we need for next year, the forwards aren't up to the task. That leaves the Sabres with the likely scenario that they start off slow and Bylsma is fired during the season and, unless there is a miraculous turn around, miss the playoffs again.

I totally disagree. Our forwards are good, with help on the way. Look at some of the playoff teams...our forwards belong. Get two top-4 Dmen (this is the hard part) and a coach that can maximize the roster, and let's roll. I'm not expecting them to rattle off 110 points, but with the right moves this team is a playoff team.

At this point, from management to coaching to players, the Leafs are far, far ahead. It's incredible what kind of production they're getting from their young kids. They still have Dermott and Bracco and a few really good forward prospects on the way. Matthews and Marner and Nylander all have loads of room to grow. They have their ROR (Kadri) but have him at $4 mil and didn't have to trade anything to get him. The amount of assets they have while icing the team they do make me embarrassed about the 14-15 team (which I was already embarrassed about).

 

They will be the class of our division for a long time. We will hopefully be Philly to their Pittsburgh. But we have loads of work to even get to that point.

The biggest long term thing to me is probably the management. Hunter, Dubas...just a wicked smart, young, progressive group. It's reflected in their shrewd asset management. Let's hope some other team poaches them :lol:

[LGR4GM]

I totally disagree. Our forwards are good, with help on the way. Look at some of the playoff teams...our forwards belong. Get two top-4 Dmen (this is the hard part) and a coach that can maximize the roster, and let's roll. I'm not expecting them to rattle off 110 points, but with the right moves this team is a playoff team.

 

The biggest long term thing to me is probably the management. Hunter, Dubas...just a wicked smart, young, progressive group. It's reflected in their shrewd asset management. Let's hope some other team poaches them :lol:

Hell with a healthy Eichel and Kulikov we are probably a bubble team if not in. This was like the perfect storm of crap season. Only hope now is the draft lottery falls our way and it pays off after the injuries, incompetent coaching, incompotent Gm'ing (really, you didn't bring in any defender depth? for realz?), and locker room issues, kinda feel think a nice dose of Hischier is just want we need. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

HISCHIER!!

[Huckleberry]

The leafs rebuild has been going on longer than ours.    The last 3 drafts with marner, nylander and matthews, pushed Kadri and Bozak down a line.

Basically thier bottom 6 is producing and ours is not.       And they have been drafted since 2010.   

 

Its mainly Girgensons and Ennis, along with Moulson and Deslauriers whom have been dissapointing 5v5.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Huckleberry

[DarthEbriate]

Apart from the Leafs having a talented base of prospects that have been good for years in the AHL, and then hitting jackpots with Matthews, Marner, and Nylander... and the coach... one real difference in our teams was their front office's ability to unload two franchise-crushing contracts in Bolland and Phaneuf.

 

Until we can remove Bogosian and Moulson (or get them to play up to those deals) we're behind.

 

But they got it done. Why can't we? (Without buying them out. They got assets for those guys, at least temporarily.)

 

Not Bolland. That other guy. The really ridiculous forward contract. You know who I'm talking about.

Edited April 17, 2017 by DarthEbriate

[bunomatic]

Listen I hate the leafs as much as anyone but they are fun to watch in these playoffs. Their rebuild is gaining experience in the postseason and they're ahead in finding a way to get into the postseason. Something we have yet to manage and in reality we might not be there next season either depending on how the chips fall. Their coach has them playing a style where they dictate play and never seem to let up in attacking the net. Our coach...yeah. Not too much. I'm really not sure how anyone can think we're somehow ahead.

[CallawaySabres]

The leafs are light years ahead of our shiit team. It's like a different sport watching how fast and skilled they are. Wow is it depressing to watch this toronto team compared to ours...

[tom webster]

The leafs are light years ahead of our shiit team. It's like a different sport watching how fast and skilled they are. Wow is it depressing to watch this toronto team compared to ours...

It is a different sport. Playoff hockey always look faster. The Leafs are definitely ahead but it's a lot closer then "light years."

[TrueBlueGED]

I'm just gonna say it: I think the Leafs have potential to be the NHL's Patriots.

 

I need Dudacek to show up and tell me again how they're going to face adversity.

[thewookie1]

I'm just gonna say it: I think the Leafs have potential to be the NHL's Patriots.

 

I need Dudacek to show up and tell me again how they're going to face adversity.

 

Why not at this point, what else can go wrong in Buffalo

[Sabel79]

There seems to be an awful lot of Eeyore going on in here...

[TrueBlueGED]

There seems to be an awful lot of Eeyore going on in here...

 

We just smashed our car on the same day the jerk at work got his Mercedes delivered. That's basically what this is, only it doesn't end in a few days.

[Sabel79]

We just smashed our car on the same day the jerk at work got his Mercedes delivered. That's basically what this is, only it doesn't end in a few days.

Sometimes bad things happen to jerks and their Mercedes. Things can go horribly and expensively wrong under the hood. Maybe someone puts a wide scratch down it next fall, who knows?

[TrueBlueGED]

Sometimes bad things happen to jerks and their Mercedes. Things can go horribly and expensively wrong under the hood. Maybe someone puts a wide scratch down it next fall, who knows?

 

I'm just saying, given the year we just endured, and the breakout success the Leafs are having, it's pretty understandable that there's a sizable amount of negative energy.

[WildCard]

I'm just gonna say it: I think the Leafs have potential to be the NHL's Patriots.

 

I need Dudacek to show up and tell me again how they're going to face adversity.

You can go off

[TrueBlueGED]

You can go ###### off

 

They check all the boxes. A management group and coach seemingly a half step ahead on cap and asset management, a star-laden foundation, and tremendous luck. Seriously, since Shanahan took over and assembled that group, have they whiffed on anything? It's one hit after another.

[WildCard]

They check all the boxes. A management group and coach seemingly a half step ahead on cap and asset management, a star-laden foundation, and tremendous luck. Seriously, since Shanahan took over and assembled that group, have they whiffed on anything? It's one hit after another.

I'd say they're more Cubs than Pats given the history and fan base