Is our Defense Good Enough?

[nfreeman]

A smart, mobile puckmover is obviously the missing ingredient.

 

Depth-wise, I think people mistake the real problem with the defence.

Kulikov, Gorges, Franson and McCabe match up just fine with most bottom fours.

The most important ingredient is the top two and Risto and Bogo just don't measure up.

 

To be cup worthy, we need to acquire a one (slim to no chance).

Or Risto becomes a one and we need to acquire or develop a two

 

Good post.  Kulikov's role with Florida kinda evolved into a #2 at the end of last season, but it was mostly by default -- he certainly wasn't the Seabrook to Ekblad's Keith.  He'll probably be the #2 here as well but it's above his natural station. 

 

I'm still kinda holding out hope for a trade for one of Anaheim's defensemen.  If that doesn't materialize, we're left with the hope that McCabe takes major steps -- which isn't gonna happen this year.

 

Risto is the most likely candidate to provide the Sabres with a #1.  It's a lot to hope for, especially this early in his career.

 

I can't really think of any true #1s who have changed teams recently -- other than Weber and PK, who were traded for each other.  Before that -- maybe Suter going to Minny in FA?

[LGR4GM]

My concern on defense isn't really the guys we currently have. Sure we need Risto to improve and I hope he does. The issue I foresee is the complete lack of depth at defense and a shallow pipeline. You have Nelson and Guhle (another year or two away) that could step into the top 6 maybe and then? The rest of that lot is either never making the team or is so young we can't really project them out. I hope we keep our first and second round picks this year and some defenders fall to us. Missing out on Cam Dineen I still feel was a mistake. We don't have a super talented defensive pipeline and those guys need 3 years to marinate after being drafted in most cases. This to me is our Achilles heel until fixed.

[dudacek]

I think Murray considers Will Borgen a future Sabre.

 

I agree the pipeline is shallow, but if you define depth as guys who can play roles 4-7, I don't think depth is all that hard to acquire

Edited September 29, 2016 by dudacek

[TrueBlueGED]

Good post. Kulikov's role with Florida kinda evolved into a #2 at the end of last season, but it was mostly by default -- he certainly wasn't the Seabrook to Ekblad's Keith. He'll probably be the #2 here as well but it's above his natural station.

 

I'm still kinda holding out hope for a trade for one of Anaheim's defensemen. If that doesn't materialize, we're left with the hope that McCabe takes major steps -- which isn't gonna happen this year.

 

Risto is the most likely candidate to provide the Sabres with a #1. It's a lot to hope for, especially this early in his career.

 

I can't really think of any true #1s who have changed teams recently -- other than Weber and PK, who were traded for each other. Before that -- maybe Suter going to Minny in FA?

Yea, can't think of anyone other than Suter. I've said it before and I mean it in all seriousness: our Cup hopes depend more on Risto than on Jack.

I think Murray considers Will Borgen a future Sabre.

 

I agree the pipeline is shallow, but if you define depth as guys who can play roles 4-7, I don't think depth is all that hard to acquire

I'm not worried about the depth long term...unless Risto never develops into a true #1. Then our depth has to be a lot better, and getting that done at price points that fit together, is not an easy task.

[Thorner]

Yea, can't think of anyone other than Suter. I've said it before and I mean it in all seriousness: our Cup hopes depend more on Risto than on Jack.

 

I'm not worried about the depth long term...unless Risto never develops into a true #1. Then our depth has to be a lot better, and getting that done at price points that fit together, is not an easy task.

It does seem like we are pinning a lot of our hope on Risto. I know that there are so many variables that it's nearly an impossible question to answer, but I'll ask it anyway: What does everyone think the chances are (%) that Ristolainen turns into a #1 for us?

[Randall Flagg]

It does seem like we are pinning a lot of our hope on Risto. I know that there are so many variables that it's nearly an impossible question to answer, but I'll ask it anyway: What does everyone think the chances are (%) that Ristolainen turns into a #1 for us?

Can you define what you mean by #1? Top 30 D in the league? Top 15?

[Thorner]

Can you define what you mean by #1? Top 30 D in the league? Top 15?

#1 on a cup-capable team.

[LGR4GM]

#1 on a cup-capable team.

That's top 10 then.  

[Randall Flagg]

#1 on a cup-capable team.

Here's my list of those guys right now, IMO:

Doughty, Subban, Weber, Burns/Vlasic, Josi, Hedman, McDonagh, Letang, OEL, Karlsson, Keith, Pietrangelo, Suter, Giordano, Brodie, Carlson (not the level of these other guys, but the Caps can contend and he's their best)

 

Up and coming guys who will soon join this list (IMO again):

Ekblad, Faulk, Jones, Rielly, Ristolainen, Klingberg

 

Prospects with high ceilings:

Hanifin, Werenski, Provorov, Klefbom

 

Obviously, I think there are quite a few defensemen that can be the best on a cup team. I think Risto has a very good chance of joining this group soon. If I ranked defensemen right now he'd probably come in around #30.

[TrueBlueGED]

It does seem like we are pinning a lot of our hope on Risto. I know that there are so many variables that it's nearly an impossible question to answer, but I'll ask it anyway: What does everyone think the chances are (%) that Ristolainen turns into a #1 for us?

I think there's a really high probability he can turn into a McDonagh-level #1. 75%+. Hell, I think his offense is already better...defense is way behind though. The question becomes is McDonagh a #1 on a contender with a lesser goaltender than Lundqvist. That I'm not sure of.

[Thorner]

I think there's a really high probability he can turn into a McDonagh-level #1. 75%+. Hell, I think his offense is already better...defense is way behind though. The question becomes is McDonagh a #1 on a contender with a lesser goaltender than Lundqvist. That I'm not sure of.

 

Maybe, maybe not. But I also think we are structured to become a better offensive team than the Rangers, if our goaltending isn't up to their par. 

[North Buffalo]

So we got 2 potentially. Any others? I'll check tomorrow but we need a list.

Hes a project 2 years put but Chukarov at UMass... good skater and size. Anyone in Rochester that could step up?

[That Aud Smell]

First, no our defense isn't good enough.

 

Second, my D is good enough ask your mom

 

I chuckled.

 

 

I think if Franson is heathy he will surprise a lot of people around here and have a pretty decent year.

 

Didn't he play in the preseason game that was on TV? I seem to recall someone - Bobby Ryan? - walking around him as though he were the reincarantion of Derian Hatcher.

[GASabresIUFAN]

 

Didn't he play in the preseason game that was on TV? I seem to recall someone - Bobby Ryan? - walking around him as though he were the reincarantion of Derian Hatcher.

You are correct. Franson is a piller on skates. There is a reason 29 other GMs were avoiding him like the plague. If you can't skate in today's NHL, you have little or no value. I wonder, can we lend Franson to a team in Siberia.

[nfreeman]

Franson isn't a good skater, and he's not a top-4 defenseman, but he'll do fine in limited and protected 3rd-pair minutes and on the #2 PP.  Remember that he missed most of last season.  Give him some time to get re-adjusted to NHL speed.

 

More importantly, Franson's 10 min or so of even-strength ice time per game against the opponents' 3rd & 4th lines aren't going to be where the Sabres' season is made or broken.  The top 2 pairings are much more important -- and the Sabres' top 4 guys all have significant question marks associated with them.

[LGR4GM]

I really wish there was a way to pry Cam Fowler out of Anaheim. It would cost Zemgus plus who knows what else but I wish we had him added to our team. 

[TrueBlueGED]

I really wish there was a way to pry Cam Fowler out of Anaheim. It would cost Zemgus plus who knows what else but I wish we had him added to our team.

Pretty sure we would have if there was a reasonable deal to be made. But when Adam Larsson costs Taylor Hall...good luck.

[LGR4GM]

Pretty sure we would have if there was a reasonable deal to be made. But when Adam Larsson costs Taylor Hall...good luck.

you think they would take Kane? Heh? Maybe? What if we ask really nice?

 

I just want a better defense. It is going to be the achilles heel this year

[Thorner]

I really wish there was a way to pry Cam Fowler out of Anaheim. It would cost Zemgus plus who knows what else but I wish we had him added to our team. 

 

This is exactly the move we need and the one I was hoping we would make. It would give us 2 legitimate solid second paring D on the left side (Fowler, Kulikov - one would have to play top pair minutes), and with Risto asserting himself as a true top pairing guy on the right, I think we'd be fine on D. 

[nfreeman]

DDB on Nelson:

 

On defense, meanwhile, Casey Nelson and Justin Falk are two guys making a case for the Sabres roster out of camp. Bylsma said that Nelson, a rookie out of Minnesota State, looked like a seasoned NHL veteran following Buffalo's game against the Wild. On Friday, he said he could foresee a scenario where Nelson not only makes the team, but breaks into the top six. 

 

"I can see that for sure," Bylsma said. "I can definitely see that being the case. I like it to be a little bit of depth and be spoiled by having that option or be forced to have that option with Casey being a guy that even possibly you need to put in the top six, put him in an opening day lineup."

 

 

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/kulikov-to-make-debut-as-sabres-host-leafs/c-282275086

 

Although I've been defending Franson upthread, it's quite possible that DDB sees a 3rd pairing of Gorges and Franson as just too slow to cut the mustard -- and that he likes Nelson enough to bump Franson.

[GASabresIUFAN]

DDB on Nelson:

 

 

 

 

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/kulikov-to-make-debut-as-sabres-host-leafs/c-282275086

 

Although I've been defending Franson upthread, it's quite possible that DDB sees a 3rd pairing of Gorges and Franson as just too slow to cut the mustard -- and that he likes Nelson enough to bump Franson.

This is something I have hoped would happen for months. Franson and Gorges are a scary slow pair and in today's NHL that deosn't fly. Frankly, if Nelson makes the team, maybe GMTM can trade Franson for anything and get out from under his deal. This would free up cash for deadline deals if this team becomes a playoff contender. If not, demote him to the AHL, let him tutor kids and hopefully someone will claim him on recall waivers.

 

The other option is let him ride the pine in Buffalo and at least you have a proven vet to bring in case of injury.

 

Nelson was sadly -5 tonight as the Sabres were destroyed by the Leafs 8-1. Ouch!

Edited October 1, 2016 by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

My god, I want no part of Justin Falk on the team.

He's like a C grade version of Mike Weber.

[bob_sauve28]

This is something I have hoped would happen for months. Franson and Gorges are a scary slow pair and in today's NHL that deosn't fly. Frankly, if Nelson makes the team, maybe GMTM can trade Franson for anything and get out from under his deal. This would free up cash for deadline deals if this team becomes a playoff contender. If not, demote him to the AHL, let him tutor kids and hopefully someone will claim him on recall waivers.

The other option is let him ride the pine in Buffalo and at least you have a proven vet to bring in case of injury.

Nelson was sadly -5 tonight as the Sabres were destroyed by the Leafs 8-1. Ouch!

Nelson is no where near ready for prime time.

[dudacek]

Right now I'd even net excited with a Mike Weber signing.

There were guys available. Murray chose not to pursue them.

[TrueBlueGED]

Bogosian with a mild groin strain according to Bylsma. So it starts.

 

*dives back into bunker to avoid incoming artillery*