Pu dropped.

[LGR4GM]

I apologize for the lack of knowledge and hope I'm not irritating you. So it's because of his age he can't play in Rochester but he could have made the Sabres? Can you explain why that rule is in place? I'm trying to figure out what it protects or protects against.

You're good. This is the place to ask.

[Brawndo]

5th in the league in scoring, behind an overagers and 3 second round picks from 2016

[dudacek]

The idea that GM TM might have found a real gem outside of Round 1 is quite exciting.

 

On his assists, is there any resource that would give an idea of the "quality" of the same? I.e., is he getting a bunch of secondary helpers that could be skewing the output?

 

Also: Given that the kid now has a trajectory heading toward the middle or even top 6, I'll renew the petition that the scatological humour be abandoned. And that's coming from someone who is chided by his wife at least three times a week to knock it off with the bathroom jokes.

 

I can't recall where I saw it - kris baker perhaps? - but I read a piece a month or so ago that his totals were actually the opposite, heavily skewed to first assists. He usually plays with first round power winger Max Jones, but his numbers were unaffected when Jones went out with injury. He is creating offence, not riding a generous official scorer. He also may be the fastest skater in junior hockey.

[Brawndo]

A large majority of his goals are even strength, and most of his assists are primary as well.

[That Aud Smell]

Good stuff above--thanks for it.

[Brawndo]

I can't recall where I saw it - kris baker perhaps? - but I read a piece a month or so ago that his totals were actually the opposite, heavily skewed to first assists. He usually plays with first round power winger Max Jones, but his numbers were unaffected when Jones went out with injury. He is creating offence, not riding a generous official scorer. He also may be the fastest skater in junior hockey.

Baker was discussing him on twitter this past weekend, he mentioned he would benefit from returning to London for one more season and he projects him as a middle six skater.

[dudacek]

That's where I see him too.

I have doubts the offence will translate.

But it shows he has some skill.

His size is good, he's conscientious about defence and the speed is elite.

 

He fits with Bailey, Baptiste, Carrier and Fasching in terms of promise.

Hopefully someone from that group emerges as somebody who can score.

[darksabre]

I hope Pu makes the roster next year if only for the excellent Taro Sez sign material. 

[Samson's Flow]

That's where I see him too.

I have doubts the offence will translate.

But it shows he has some skill.

His size is good, he's conscientious about defence and the speed is elite.

 

He fits with Bailey, Baptiste, Carrier and Fasching in terms of promise.

Hopefully someone from that group emerges as somebody who can score.

In terms of potential in the NHL I agree that is where Pu is currently, however, those guys you listed never had the type of season in juniors that we are seeing from Pu. May make the difference long term.

[bob_sauve28]

In terms of potential in the NHL I agree that is where Pu is currently, however, those guys you listed never had the type of season in juniors that we are seeing from Pu. May make the difference long term.

Is that right? Bailey and Baptise never scored like that? 

[LGR4GM]

Is that right? Bailey and Baptise never scored like that?

Pu is scoring at Sam Reinhart draft year pace

[Crusader1969]

The rule is to protect the OHL (really the entire CHL for that matter).  The CHL is one of the best developmental leagues and the rule is in place to keep the league competitive.  Otherwise every team would sent their best prospects to the AHL.

 

I don't love the rule and I think there should be some exceptions but that is why it is in plac

 

 

 

I don`t like the rule at all and I`m a season ticket holder for the Bulldogs. I just think if a player outgrows his league he deserves to be placed into a more competitive situation. The development of the prospect should be the number one priority of both the CHL and NHL. I don`t mind having to play the 3rd season but the 4th season the team should have the option of where their prospect is best to develop.

 

There will still be lots of good players in the CHL even if the rule is amended. 

[Derrico]

Is that right? Bailey and Baptise never scored like that? 

Bailey scored at 0.85 pts/game his post draft year.

Baptiste scored at 1.37 pts/game his post draft year.

Pu is at a pace of 1.83 pts/game his post draft year.

[Samson's Flow]

Bailey scored at 0.85 pts/game his post draft year.

Baptiste scored at 1.37 pts/game his post draft year.

Pu is at a pace of 1.83 pts/game his post draft year.

This was my point. The round they were drafted in makes no difference once they are drafted. Pu is scoring at over twice the rate of Bailey and 50% more than Baptiste and we were all very excited about their prospects of making the NHL.

[rakish]

Is that right? Bailey and Baptise never scored like that? 

 

I have Bailey as the 70th best forward at 17, around 70th at 18, around 40th at 19, and about 35th at 20.

Baptiste at 56 at 17, 18 at 18, 59 at 19, 65th at 20.

 

I expect Pu to be 15 to 20 this year after being 123 last year.

 

So Baptiste did score similarly at 18, I also think he had an injury two years ago that slowed him for a while.

[Huckleberry]

Would be surprised if he isn't at least 3 years away from sniffing at a roster spot though :p

[LGR4GM]

Would be surprised if he isn't at least 3 years away from sniffing at a roster spot though :P

Realistically he will go back to Juniors next season, then will need a season in Rochester most likely so yea about 3 years. 

 

The good thing is, if we need to keep Pu down because we don't have a spot for him that means our roster is doing well. 

[bob_sauve28]

This was my point. The round they were drafted in makes no difference once they are drafted. Pu is scoring at over twice the rate of Bailey and 50% more than Baptiste and we were all very excited about their prospects of making the NHL.

Wow! That's great! I watched Bailey in juniors and was really impressed, Pu must be out of sight

[LGR4GM]

Sam Reinhart, Nov 6th birthday, in his draft year scored at a 1.75pt pace. Cliff Pu with a June 3rd birthday is scoring at a 1.83pt pace in the year after he was drafted. Take that for what it is worth.

[bob_sauve28]

Sam Reinhart, Nov 6th birthday, in his draft year scored at a 1.75pt pace. Cliff Pu with a June 3rd birthday is scoring at a 1.83pt pace in the year after he was drafted. Take that for what it is worth.

I like it! 

[7+6=13]

The rule is to protect the OHL (really the entire CHL for that matter).  The CHL is one of the best developmental leagues and the rule is in place to keep the league competitive.  Otherwise every team would sent their best prospects to the AHL.

 

I don't love the rule and I think there should be some exceptions but that is why it is in place.

 

Do you think there's a correlation between this rule and the significant drop off in players drafted in the 3rd round and higher playing in the NHL?  Or do you think if you have it, you have it, but it just takes a bit longer with this rule?

[Derrico]

Do you think there's a correlation between this rule and the significant drop off in players drafted in the 3rd round and higher playing in the NHL?  Or do you think if you have it, you have it, but it just takes a bit longer with this rule?

I'm not sure.  I also don't entirely agree with this rule.  I would like to see it changed whereas rather than having to play 4 full years in junior they can only play 3.  That way post draft year they would still have to play in the CHL but then there's the potential to move on after that.  Or each team is allotted one exception to the rule. 

[Sabel79]

Do you think there's a correlation between this rule and the significant drop off in players drafted in the 3rd round and higher playing in the NHL?  Or do you think if you have it, you have it, but it just takes a bit longer with this rule?

 

 

I'm not sure.  I also don't entirely agree with this rule.  I would like to see it changed whereas rather than having to play 4 full years in junior they can only play 3.  That way post draft year they would still have to play in the CHL but then there's the potential to move on after that.  Or each team is allotted one exception to the rule. 

The rule really only benefits two interests: Junior Hockey and AHL Veterans.  Junior hockey because it keeps the free talent trapped there for a specified number of years and AHL guys because it keeps a significant number of them in jobs that would otherwise go to more talented younger players who are kept in junior as above. 

 

 

There are probably many examples of guys who would be better suited in the American league stuck in junior to their detriment.  By no means the majority though, but the big picture development of players generally really isn't a consideration as the rule is currently constructed. 

[Crusader1969]

Here are the top 13 Points per Game leaders in the OHL over the last 5 years. Ive bolded guys who played were in their 2nd year (19 year olds). Basically it shows that prior to this season only McDavid, Marner, Strome and Tkachuk scored better than what Pu is doing as an 18 year old. Thats pretty good company for him and suggests that Pu may be closer to having a serious run at the Sabres roster than we might think.

                                  

 

1) Connor McDavid -  2.55 2014/15 - straight to NHL
2) Taylor Raddysh -    2.17 2016/17 - drafted 2016 (2nd round)

3) Alex DeBrincat -     2.09 2016/17 - drafted 2016 (2nd round)

4) Christian Dvorak  2.05 2015/16 - drafted 2014 

5) Jeremy Bracco     2.04  2016/17 - drafted 2015

6) Mitch Marner         2.03  2015-16 - drafted 2015     
7) Mitch Marner         2.00  2014/15  

8) Dylan Strome        1.98   2015/16 - drafted 2015

9) Kevin Labanc      1.95   2015-16  drafted 2014

10) Dylan Strome      1.89   2014/15

11) Connor Brown     1.88   2013/14   drafted in 2012

12) Matthew Tkachuk 1.87   2015/16  drafted in 2016

13) Cliff Pu                    1.82 2016/17  drafted 2016

Edited November 28, 2016 by Crusader1969

[bob_sauve28]

Here are the top 20 Points per Game leaders in the OHL over the last 5 years.

                                   

 

1) Connor McDavid -  2.55 2014/15 - straight to NHL

2) Taylor Raddysh -    2.17 2016/17 - drafted 2016 (2nd round)

3) Alex DeBrincat -     2.09 2016/17 - drafted 2016 (2nd round)

4) Christian Dvorak  2.05 2015/16 - drafted 2014 

5) Jeremy Bracco     2.04  2016/17 - drafted 2015

6) Mitch Marner         2.03  2015-16 - drafted 2015     

7) Mitch Marner         2.00  2014/15  

8) Dylan Strome        1.98   2015/16 - drafted 2015

9) Kevin Labanc      1.95   2015-16  drafted 2014

10) Dylan Strome      1.89   2014/15

11) Connor Brown     1.88   2013/14   drafted in 2012

12) Matthew Tkachuk 1.87   2015/16  drafted in 2016

13) Cliff Pu

Forgive my ignorance, but are all those players either in the league of sure to make it soon? Or are some just flash in the pans?