What to do with Moulson?

[Tondas]

That shot last night was from a goal scorer.  Hope he continues and stays.  For Matty Mo, he's in a good spot if his worst case scenario is Las Vegas.  I've lived in Buffalo and Vegas, no doubt the people are much better in Buffalo (and that's huge), but for just about everything else.......

[ubkev]

That shot last night was from a goal scorer. Hope he continues and stays. For Matty Mo, he's in a good spot if his worst case scenario is Las Vegas. I've lived in Buffalo and Vegas, no doubt the people are much better in Buffalo (and that's huge), but for just about everything else.......

What's wrong with the people in Vegas? I happen to love bartenders, strippers, dealers, hookers, degenerates, retirees and the rest of the sun soaked lizard people that live there.

[Tondas]

What's wrong with the people in Vegas? I happen to love bartenders, strippers, dealers, hookers, degenerates, retirees and the rest of the sun soaked lizard people that live there.

 

You're right and I apologize.  I should never look down upon people that are Holier than I am.

[MattPie]

Yeah, he gets paid regardless, but that's not what motivates him.    He's playing like his hair is on fire out of the gate.    If he keeps that up, yeah I want him around for another season or two, don't care that he's 33.    It shows me that he's willing to do whatever it takes to stick around... I like that, and I want those guys on my team.     There will always be room for a guy like that. 

 

 

 

..but what if Ennis AND Moulson scores 30g AND BUF is a in a playoff spot at the deadline.    Then what?

 

Let me answer,  you protect them.   Why?   Because you can't lose those guys for nothing.    Guys like Foligno, Girgensons are easily replaceable, hell I'd argue we need to upgrade both their spots.   It's easy to find faster, more skilled players who are just as big, that can pot 10-15g year.   Those guys are a dime a dozen.     What's not easy to find are 30g scoring wingers.    You have one on your team?  You do what you need to do to keep them, and milk everything you can out of them.

 

But I digress.... chances are Moulson doesn't even score 20,  Ennis doesn't score 20, and BUF is on the outside looking in again this year....  but consider there infinite parallel universes (there are) in at last one of those universes both Ennis and Moulson score 30 on our way to a lengthy playoff run, I hope that's the universe we live in.

 

In that case, "is in a playoff spot" is an understatement.

[Neo]

What's wrong with the people in Vegas? I happen to love bartenders, strippers, dealers, hookers, degenerates, retirees and the rest of the sun soaked lizard people that live there.

We need to spend some time together at the meet up. We have more than UB in common.

Edited October 18, 2016 by N'eo

[Doohicksie]

What's wrong with the people in Vegas?

 

Well for starters, they don't bleed Blue & Gold.

[Tondas]

Well for starters, they don't bleed Blue & Gold.

 

  :beer:

[GASabresIUFAN]

So what do we do with Moulson? How about relax and enjoy the ride as long as it lasts.

[7+6=13]

1) Yes I would give up Moulson at the expansion draft to protect a younger asset with a future even if Moulson miraculously scored 30goals this season.

 

2) Evander Kane has scored 30goals in the NHL... like that happened. Fun fact, last time it happened was the same year Moulson got 30.

 

3) Moulson... Dave Andreychuk... come on now they shouldn't be in the same sentence. Jagr had 27goals last year but Moulson isn't him either. Moulson has lost a step. The league is getting faster and Moulson isn't. 

 

4) Cam Fowler probably will not be a Duck at the deadline. To sign Lindholm they need to trade Fowler now. They aren't taking on 5mil in salary for an additional 2 years just to get Matt freaking Moulson. 

 

5) He won't be a 30 goal scorer but you aren't letting him go for nothing. If he gets claimed you lose a guy that probably won't score 30 again and you protect every single other asset on your team because Moulson goes away. In addition you free up 5mil next season and 5mil the season after in cap space to add another player or re-sign players that are better.

 

You've got to give him some credit though.  He's trimmed down quit a bit so there was obviously a dedication to conditioning.

[LGR4GM]

Is Moulson the reason for the offense he is generating? This doesn't mean is he scoring the goals because duh we know that. I mean is he the reason he has that chance to score that goal? Is he an offensive generator or an offensive passenger? 

[Drunkard]

Is Moulson the reason for the offense he is generating? This doesn't mean is he scoring the goals because duh we know that. I mean is he the reason he has that chance to score that goal? Is he an offensive generator or an offensive passenger?

I'm sure it's a mix of both and that's fine by me. Since we're paying him anyway I'm just happy to see him being productive.

[pi2000]

Bylsma has finally seen the light... Moulson is playing on the top line with O'Reilly and Okposo. 

 

He deserves it.

Edited October 24, 2016 by pi2000

[Randall Flagg]

Bylsma has finally seen the light... Moulson is playing on the top line with O'Reilly and Okposo.

 

He deserves it.

If there's any line that can spoon feed him chances at even strength, it's that one. Let's see if he can do something when not on the power play now.

 

This is in full acknowledgement that he looks miles better this season than last year.

 

But let's not pretend moulson is a top six player on a good team.

[3putt]

The one advantage Moulson has on that line is his lack of speed. Okposo is not a burner and ROR can play at a more controlled pace if the situation warrants it. I honestly think Matty Mo was spending so much effort trying to keep up that he had nothing left to actually play with. This line can play in control and perhaps Moulson can clean up the garbage around the net. When he was with faster players he couldn't get there before the puck was going the other way.

[Norcal]

Drink it

[Drunkard]

The one advantage Moulson has on that line is his lack of speed. Okposo is not a burner and ROR can play at a more controlled pace if the situation warrants it. I honestly think Matty Mo was spending so much effort trying to keep up that he had nothing left to actually play with. This line can play in control and perhaps Moulson can clean up the garbage around the net. When he was with faster players he couldn't get there before the puck was going the other way.

 

I believe this to be the case as well. Moulson looked incredibly slow last year and by the time he got demoted to the 3rd and 4th lines it was apparent that he was struggling to keep up. Playing with less burners coupled with his newly improved conditioning should help he production to bounce back. I don't think he's going to reclaim the 30 goals seasons of his prime but I could definitely see him crack 20 with regular power play time and being on a line that doesn't cause him to be permanently sucking wind.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Drunkard

[nfreeman]

The one advantage Moulson has on that line is his lack of speed. Okposo is not a burner and ROR can play at a more controlled pace if the situation warrants it. I honestly think Matty Mo was spending so much effort trying to keep up that he had nothing left to actually play with. This line can play in control and perhaps Moulson can clean up the garbage around the net. When he was with faster players he couldn't get there before the puck was going the other way.

 

This is somewhat counter-intuitive but definitely an interesting point.

 

It would be freaking huge if Moulson could contribute some regular scoring.

[pi2000]

The one advantage Moulson has on that line is his lack of speed. Okposo is not a burner and ROR can play at a more controlled pace if the situation warrants it. I honestly think Matty Mo was spending so much effort trying to keep up that he had nothing left to actually play with. This line can play in control and perhaps Moulson can clean up the garbage around the net. When he was with faster players he couldn't get there before the puck was going the other way.

 

I'm sorry but that makes no sense.   Generally speaking, it's not a good idea to pair 3 slow players together as a strategy.   If anything it's a bad idea as ideally you have at least one guy on each line that can skate.... to get in first on the forecheck and provide back pressure when the play goes the other way. 

 

The obvious reason for the move is that Moulson is generating the highest sog/min on the team.    More minutes on the top line means more shots on net.    Reinhart isn't a shoot first guy, Moulson is.   They need a trigger man on that top line. 

Edited October 25, 2016 by pi2000

[3putt]

Moulson is nothing more than a garbage man at this point in his career.  ROR and Okposo can skate a d generate, just at a slower pace which Moulson can play at .  He hasn't transformed his game from last year, he is simply in better shape.  He has average speed. Okposo is average to slightly above and ROR is above average but has the skill to slow the game down.  Together they should be able to play as a unit without Moulson lagging the play.  Advantage Moulson.  I hope that line lights it up.  

[LGR4GM]

I'm sorry but that makes no sense. Generally speaking, it's not a good idea to pair 3 slow players together as a strategy. If anything it's a bad idea as ideally you have at least one guy on each line that can skate.... to get in first on the forecheck and provide back pressure when the play goes the other way.

 

The obvious reason for the move is that Moulson is generating the highest sog/min on the team. More minutes on the top line means more shots on net. Reinhart isn't a shoot first guy, Moulson is. They need a trigger man on that top line.

Someone go verify Moulson and his 5v5 shots a minute right now.

[qwksndmonster]

I'm sorry but that makes no sense. Generally speaking, it's not a good idea to pair 3 slow players together as a strategy. If anything it's a bad idea as ideally you have at least one guy on each line that can skate.... to get in first on the forecheck and provide back pressure when the play goes the other way.

 

The obvious reason for the move is that Moulson is generating the highest sog/min on the team. More minutes on the top line means more shots on net. Reinhart isn't a shoot first guy, Moulson is. They need a trigger man on that top line.

O'Reilly and Okposo aren't slow, though. And they're more than smart enough to make up for the fact that they aren't burners.

 

I think giving Moulson a shot with them is an excellent decision by Bylsma with this depleted roster.

[pi2000]

Someone go verify Moulson and his 5v5 shots a minute right now.

 

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=201617&sit=5v5&pos=skaters&minutes=1&teamid=4&type=individual&sort=ishots60&sortdir=DESC

 

Moulson, at 10.87 sh/60min is first... well, second to Kane, who is out obviously.   Reinhart is 8th at 6.39.

[LGR4GM]

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=201617&sit=5v5&pos=skaters&minutes=1&teamid=4&type=individual&sort=ishots60&sortdir=DESC

 

Moulson, at 10.87 sh/60min is first... well, second to Kane, who is out obviously.   Reinhart is 8th at 6.39.

I already did it since everyone else around here is far to busy talking about politics or sexual harassment to actually talk hockey lately. 

 

My problem with that number is the sample size. 4 games, 33minutes of ice time at 5v5. If he goes out tonight and has o shots, it will skew the number. If he goes out and has 10 shots, it will skew the number. Whether it be Reinhart or Moulson, ROR or Kyle Okposo, there are not enough data points in our dataset to really understand this team yet. My minimum is 10 games of data. I would prefer 20 but until then, tossing out his shots per 60min doesn't mean a lot to me. I personally don't believe shots are the best way to measure offense generation. I think Corsi is an okay stat but not the best. My point is that Moulson has earned his shot on the top line but I think we need 10 games of data before we start talking about him "generating the highest sog/60minutes on the team".  There simply is far to much noise in the numbers still. 

[pi2000]

I already did it since everyone else around here is far to busy talking about politics or sexual harassment to actually talk hockey lately. 

 

My problem with that number is the sample size. 4 games, 33minutes of ice time at 5v5. If he goes out tonight and has o shots, it will skew the number. If he goes out and has 10 shots, it will skew the number. Whether it be Reinhart or Moulson, ROR or Kyle Okposo, there are not enough data points in our dataset to really understand this team yet. My minimum is 10 games of data. I would prefer 20 but until then, tossing out his shots per 60min doesn't mean a lot to me. I personally don't believe shots are the best way to measure offense generation. I think Corsi is an okay stat but not the best. My point is that Moulson has earned his shot on the top line but I think we need 10 games of data before we start talking about him "generating the highest sog/60minutes on the team".  There simply is far to much noise in the numbers still. 

 

Hold on a minute.    You're the one who specifically asked for his 5v5 shots/60min just a few posts up.  I provided said number, now you say it doesn't mean anything...... hmmmm, why is that?  Maybe because it didn't back your argument that Moulson is dead weight on this team?    After 10 games you'll say we need 20, after 20 you'll say 40...  c'mon man, with all due respect, I expected a better response from you.    And I can only imagine how you would've torn him to shreds if he was somewhere in the middle.    Give him some credit, yeah, it's only 4 games, but guess what... he's leading the team in even strength shots/60min which is better than lagging near the bottom.     Is there something specifically that you don't like about his game this season?   I think he's been one of our top forwards all around and I don't see any reason (barring injury) that trend won't continue.

[LGR4GM]

Hold on a minute.    You're the one who specifically asked for his 5v5 shots/60min just a few posts up.  I provided said number, now you say it doesn't mean anything...... hmmmm, why is that?  Maybe because it didn't back your argument that Moulson is dead weight on this team?    After 10 games you'll say we need 20, after 20 you'll say 40...  c'mon man, with all due respect, I expected a better response from you.    And I can only imagine how you would've torn him to shreds if he was somewhere in the middle.    Give him some credit, yeah, it's only 4 games, but guess what... he's leading the team in even strength shots/60min which is better than lagging near the bottom.     Is there something specifically that you don't like about his game this season?   I think he's been one of our top forwards all around and I don't see any reason (barring injury) that trend won't continue.

Slow down and get off your high horse. Did I insult or accuse you? No I didn't. I asked for the number because you said he was doing X and I wanted to know what the number was. My question then is will he continue to remain at that number or will it go up or down. Fairly certain I discussed that in my reply. I actually am curious to see what that number does going forward. If it stays roughly there, that's great, Moulson is doing good. I don't believe it will and I don't trust that number until we see more games because of the small sample size.

 

So no "come on man with all due respect" patronizing BS, if at 10 games Moulson is still generating that number he is clearly helping the team. That number could easily go higher. As to why the trend won't continue... he is about to play on the Sabres top line which means he will see not 3rd and 4th line opposition but 1st and 2nd line opponents, that usage change will impact his numbers, how is unknown. 

 

As to the bolded, yes. When I watch these games, Matt Moulson is not generating his own offense. He is an offensive passenger getting his opportunities because of the work someone else did. I am glad his hands are better and he can collect those passes to the center of the ice. Realistically though he is not driving possession more of an offensive opportunists. He's an offensive passenger that doesn't pass my eye test. Sam Reinhart minus the couple of nice passes for set ups also is sitting near that level for me right now in comparison. He isn't driving his line to be better. The difference is a 33 year old player is who he is and Reinhart at 20 has the oppurtunity to improve. Matt Moulson is maybe a 18goal player. 

Edited October 25, 2016 by LGR4GM