Off Topic Political Correctness

[JJFIVEOH]

I think it's important to note that within all of these communities, the offensive words are often co-opted to turn them around on the offenders, reduce their sting. My dad, whose parents emigrated from Italy, would use the term "######" around other "Italian" men. The n-word is probably the best example. And "######."

 

See also this perplexing one: NAACP. I would never call a black person colored.

And even the ######-retentive SS filter has no problem with colored.

But ######, it does.

 

Funny how that works. 

[Eleven]

I think it's important to note that within all of these communities, the offensive words are often co-opted to turn them around on the offenders, reduce their sting. My dad, whose parents emigrated from Italy, would use the term "######" around other "Italian" men. The n-word is probably the best example. And "######."

 

See also this perplexing one: NAACP. I would never call a black person colored.

And even the ######-retentive SS filter has no problem with colored.

But ######, it does.

 

I'm white.  I read this book on a DC bus.  It's a good book.  The title is NSFW but the ideas in it are amazing:  https://www.amazon.com/-Strange-Career-Troublesome-Word/dp/0375713719

Funny how that works. 

 

Like any other species, you can evolve or die.  Figuratively, of course.  But language moves faster than humankind sometimes.

[Neo]

I think I posted this before, and to PA's point. My very respectful, un-bigoted, elders used the word colored. At age ten, or so, I was very hip, modern and culturally current. I heard black on television. My great uncle used the word colored, once. I smugly asked "oh, what color is that?"

 

He gave me a look that said so much to me. Chastising the respectful for not necessarily keeping up with new trends was as disrespectful as using a slur. I'd even stopped short of calling him deliberately offensive. It was obvious that he wasn't when he used yesterday's word. It took me years to drop black for African American.

 

I believe that moment, and the embarrassment I felt, bubbled up when JJ first posted. "Hey, a new word is emerging. I know you're not being deliberately offensive, ignorant or lazy".

 

Demanding tolerance comes with the responsibility to be tolerant.

[Hoss]

I think a part of the disconnect between those who want to be "politically correct" and those who rail against it is in the way people discover that a term is offensive and the way that people communicate why a term is offensive.

 

When a person uses the term there are really only two reasons they'd be using it: they don't know that it is outdated and offensive to many or they do know and choose to use it anyway.

Too often those in the "politically correct" group of people will respond to the use of a term assuming that the latter is the case. Because of this the response is often "Wow, you're a bad person and should feel bad for being the way that you are."

Sometimes the person legitimately doesn't know the term they're using is wrong and, unless you have a good amount of previous experience with this person, you should always assume the first to be true. A proper response in that case would be to cut in and ask them if they realize that the term is offensive and/or to attempt to explain to them why the term is outdated and offensive if the setting is right.

But this is where another communication issue often comes up. The person who originally used the term will more often than not respond with "we've become too politically correct as a society."

 

In a perfect world the conversation would be:

 

"How could they let a hermaphrodite run with the other women?"

"Woah, that's not an appropriate term to use and doesn't define what she is."

"No, that is the term I've learned to describe exactly what she is."

"Well, the term used to be commonplace but over time it became clear that 'hermaphrodite' describes somebody with complete male AND female traits which is humanly impossible. The more acceptable term is intersex as it gives a better picture of what the traits possessed are."

"Ah, I didn't know that. I'll attempt to use intersex from now on."

"I appreciate that and will avoid being too aggressive if you slip up every now and then as learning new things does take time."

 

Unfortunately it's not often the situation allows for such an exchange and it feels as though we've been conditions to dig into each other instead of bouncing thoughts off of one another.

 

I agree with the notion that these things really aren't hard. If you find yourself on either side of the above conversation then try to understand why the other person would be saying what they are and give them a chance to explain where they're coming from.

Really, I don't see a problem with using whatever term you want if you truly have never heard or seen a reasoning for it being offensive. But, chances are, if most people who hear you say something are telling you that it's wrong then there's a good explanation that would take all of 30 seconds (tops) to find.

 

NOTE: the responses quoted above were intentionally generic to give a general idea as opposed to making it look like I'm making a fool of either group.

[Eleven]

I think I posted this before, and to PA's point. My very respectful, un-bigoted, elders used the word colored. At age ten, or so, I was very hip, modern and culturally current. I heard black on television. My great uncle used the word colored, once. I smugly asked "oh, what color is that?"

 

He gave me a look that said so much to me. Chastising the respectful for not necessarily keeping up with new trends was as disrespectful as using a slur. I'd even stopped short of calling him deliberately offensive. It was obvious that he wasn't when he used yesterday's word. It took me years to drop black for African American.

 

I believe that moment, and the embarrassment I felt, bubbled up when JJ first posted. "Hey, a new word is emerging. I know you're not being deliberately offensive, ignorant or lazy".

 

Demanding tolerance comes with the responsibility to be tolerant.

 

 

I think a part of the disconnect between those who want to be "politically correct" and those who rail against it is in the way people discover that a term is offensive and the way that people communicate why a term is offensive.

 

When a person uses the term there are really only two reasons they'd be using it: they don't know that it is outdated and offensive to many or they do know and choose to use it anyway.

Too often those in the "politically correct" group of people will respond to the use of a term assuming that the latter is the case. Because of this the response is often "Wow, you're a bad person and should feel bad for being the way that you are."

Sometimes the person legitimately doesn't know the term they're using is wrong and, unless you have a good amount of previous experience with this person, you should always assume the first to be true. A proper response in that case would be to cut in and ask them if they realize that the term is offensive and/or to attempt to explain to them why the term is outdated and offensive if the setting is right.

But this is where another communication issue often comes up. The person who originally used the term will more often than not respond with "we've become too politically correct as a society."

 

In a perfect world the conversation would be:

 

"How could they let a hermaphrodite run with the other women?"

"Woah, that's not an appropriate term to use and doesn't define what she is."

"No, that is the term I've learned to describe exactly what she is."

"Well, the term used to be commonplace but over time it became clear that 'hermaphrodite' describes somebody with complete male AND female traits which is humanly impossible. The more acceptable term is intersex as it gives a better picture of what the traits possessed are."

"Ah, I didn't know that. I'll attempt to use intersex from now on."

"I appreciate that and will avoid being too aggressive if you slip up every now and then as learning new things does take time."

 

Unfortunately it's not often the situation allows for such an exchange and it feels as though we've been conditions to dig into each other instead of bouncing thoughts off of one another.

 

I agree with the notion that these things really aren't hard. If you find yourself on either side of the above conversation then try to understand why the other person would be saying what they are and give them a chance to explain where they're coming from.

Really, I don't see a problem with using whatever term you want if you truly have never heard or seen a reasoning for it being offensive. But, chances are, if most people who hear you say something are telling you that it's wrong then there's a good explanation that would take all of 30 seconds (tops) to find.

 

NOTE: the responses quoted above were intentionally generic to give a general idea as opposed to making it look like I'm making a fool of either group.

 

Not bad, both of you.

 

Language evolves.

 

When was the last time "gay" meant "happy"?

 

Language evolves.

[WildCard]

I think I posted this before, and to PA's point. My very respectful, un-bigoted, elders used the word colored. At age ten, or so, I was very hip, modern and culturally current. I heard black on television. My great uncle used the word colored, once. I smugly asked "oh, what color is that?"

 

He gave me a look that said so much to me. Chastising the respectful for not necessarily keeping up with new trends was as disrespectful as using a slur. I'd even stopped short of calling him deliberately offensive. It was obvious that he wasn't when he used yesterday's word. It took me years to drop black for African American.

 

I believe that moment, and the embarrassment I felt, bubbled up when JJ first posted. "Hey, a new word is emerging. I know you're not being deliberately offensive, ignorant or lazy".

 

Demanding tolerance comes with the responsibility to be tolerant.

Is black offensive? Is African American accurate anyhow?

[Neo]

I think a part of the disconnect between those who want to be "politically correct" and those who rail against it is in the way people discover that a term is offensive and the way that people communicate why a term is offensive.

 

When a person uses the term there are really only two reasons they'd be using it: they don't know that it is outdated and offensive to many or they do know and choose to use it anyway.

 

**** brevity snip, only

 

 

In a perfect world the conversation would be:

 

"How could they let a hermaphrodite run with the other women?"

"Woah, that's not an appropriate term to use and doesn't define what she is."

"No, that is the term I've learned to describe exactly what she is."

"Well, the term used to be commonplace but over time it became clear that 'hermaphrodite' describes somebody with complete male AND female traits which is humanly impossible. The more acceptable term is intersex as it gives a better picture of what the traits possessed are."

"Ah, I didn't know that. I'll attempt to use intersex from now on."

"I appreciate that and will avoid being too aggressive if you slip up every now and then as learning new things does take time."

 

 

***** SNIP

 

Unfortunately it's not often the situation allows for such an exchange and it feels as though we've been conditions to dig into each other instead of bouncing thoughts off of one another.

 

I agree with the notion that these things really aren't hard.

 

NOTE: the responses quoted above were intentionally generic to give a general idea as opposed to making it look like I'm making a fool of either group.

Outstanding.

Is black offensive? Is African American accurate anyhow?

Truly? I'm not sure. I use African American because I believe it's the single best term most acceptable to the community involved. I remain educable.

[Eleven]

Is black offensive? Is African American accurate anyhow?

 

That's a tough one.

 

A-A isn't always accurate at all.

 

And "brown" isn't accepted by many black people.  It "is" accepted by many hispanics and Asians, though.  So maybe one group uses it to the exclusion of the other?

 

Most of the black people I know are comfortable with that term, so that's the one I use.

 

When I was in college, "people of color" was pushed at everyone (black and white and everyone else), and it just never seemed to take off.

 

I think it's still "black" for now, but maybe I'm passé.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Eleven

[dudacek]

I too had never heard of the pejorative Guinea.

 

Hard-to-believe but true story: I was a young adult before I realized the term "jewed" was a pejorative related to Jewish people.

My parents and their circle never used the word. The Jewish population where I grew up was virtually non-existent. My only exposure to it was a small handful of schoolyard references where a kid had complained he was getting ripped off. I literally thought it was spelled "jued" and was a legitimate, if obscure word for the act of being cheated.

 

I was absolutely ignorant in pure sense of the word, not at all in the willful sense.

 

It's entirely possible the way some of us regard(ed) the word hermaphrodite could fall into exactly the same scenario.

We realize our mistake, we don't repeat it.

[Eleven]

I too had never heard of the pejorative Guinea.

 

Hard-to-believe but true story: I was a young adult before I realized the term "jewed" was a pejorative related to Jewish people.

My parents and their circle never used the word. The Jewish population where I grew up was virtually non-existent. My only exposure to it was a small handful of schoolyard references where a kid had complained he was getting ripped off. I literally thought it was spelled "jued" and was a legitimate, if obscure word for the act of being cheated.

 

I was absolutely ignorant in pure sense of the word, not at all in the willful sense.

 

It's entirely possible the way some of us regard(ed) the word hermaphrodite could fall into exactly the same scenario.

We realize our mistake, we don't repeat it.

 

That is a completely believable story and that's exactly why we should try to do better.

 

I had a Jewish boss who never realized the etymology behind the phrase "Welshing" on a bet, until I explained it.  Same type of situation.  (And I have no Welsh ancestors; I was just trying to protect the idiot.  (He was an idiot for other reasons.))

[Randall Flagg]

When I'm goofing around and playing video games or something with the guys, I'll still let the word f * g slip out on occasion, and I am incredibly ashamed to say so. It's not intentional, it was just around me a lot growing up, and I think its use by some of us is a reason why one of our friends, who we suspect is gay, does not wish to let us know/come out.  
 

Sometimes when I think of the weight on his shoulders, in part because of me, I get extremely depressed, with a heavy dose of self-hatred. We make him afraid that  he'd lose us if he told us, even though it's the 21st century and we are young people. None of us are homophobic. 

I am trying very hard.

 

*I used to be homophobic, though, which is why the word is in there, that was a result of particular church school teachers and adults present while growing up*

Edited August 21, 2016 by Randall Flagg

[WildCard]

it, I'll throw my hat in the ring.

 

I do the same thing Flagg does, among my friends. One of our best friends is foreign, and we tease him about it all the time; he teases himself the most about it truly. We call each other offensive terms, but to screw with each other. We're not racist or homophobic or anything like that; we have gay and ethnic friends. In humor, I don't think anything is off limits. The context and intent behind the word is what defines it in my opinion. 

[Randall Flagg]

###### it, I'll throw my hat in the ring.

 

I do the same thing Flagg does, among my friends. One of our best friends is foreign, and we tease him about it all the time; he teases himself the most about it truly. We call each other offensive terms, but to screw with each other. We're not racist or homophobic or anything like that; we have gay and ethnic friends. In humor, I don't think anything is off limits. The context and intent behind the word is what defines it in my opinion. 

, I forgot about that. I'm also guilty of switching "L's" with "R's". , I suck.

[Huckleberry]

Political correctness to me is caring what people say.

 

Personally I have never been in that mode, and to be honest I probably should have been fired from work multiple times by now.

The reason I haven't been is simple:

 

1. I have always treated people the same way, but before I opened my big mouth I made sure they knew me for a while.

2. Respect works in two ways, they make a mistake I help them and vice versa.

3. I have a leadership function, They can screw me over so badly and I can do with them, but will never happen.

 

Here is a list of things I now get away with at work.   Things that can only get worse seeing I'm an office clerk and they do manual labour.

 

- Since the massive outbreak of Ebola.  Whenever my Nigerian colleague wants to shake my hand, I shout don't give me Ebola.

running gag between me and him for 2 years now.

- I once told my Turkish colleague, a filthy Turk, His reply was , you are allowed to say that but your fellow office cunts are not.

- Said to A Moroccan he couldn't count ###### and he was ###### lazy.

- Asked a Flemish colleague to build a special position for a plane, had to help him out said he was a bit retarded (another political correctness word I can't use any more).

He Isn't retarded, but if you don't know after 15 years how to build it well ###### off you lazy frak.

 

Is it something I'm proud off.  To be honest yes, I can get away with a lot of things because I build up my career in that firm, they said ###### to me as well.  

I don't like political correctness, to me its hypocrite.  It doesn't deal with the way people have to interact daily with each other.

 

And people in the end need to let off some steam, if words hurt you then I think its time for you to grow up and stop acting like baby ( the next word you cant use probably),

take it on the chin and move forward.

 

Also this is a post I made without reading anything you guys said, but without being in someone's position bad or good, nobody should judge someone on what he literally said.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Huckleberry

[WildCard]

######, I forgot about that. I'm also guilty of switching "L's" with "R's". ######, I suck.

Wait, what? Like, Christmas Vacation, the Asian joke? My best friend is Asian, and I have a few Asian friends. One of them sent me a picture of him with a man bun, samurai sword, and Tokyo Drift playing on his xbox the other day. But if they ever told me they found those jokes offensive, I'd stop. The other buddy did tell me he needed speech therapy to learn to say his R's instead of L's though; he was adopted from Korea when he was 5 months or so. Even he finds that hilarious

 

The buddy I was referring to is Ukrainian actually. We like to screw with him all the time, mostly because he's insistent on telling people about life in the Ukraine when he's never lived there; just a running joke  

Political correctness to me is caring what people say.

 

Personally I have never been in that mode, and to be honest I probably should have been fired from work multiple times by now.

The reason I haven't been is simple:

 

1. I have always treated people the same way, but before I opened my big mouth I made sure they knew me for a while.

2. Respect works in two ways, they make a mistake I help them and vice versa.

3. I have a leadership function, They can screw me over so badly and I can do with them, but will never happen.

 

Here is a list of things I now get away with at work.   Things that can only get worse seeing I'm an office clerk and they do manual labour.

 

- Since the massive outbreak of Ebola.  Whenever my Nigerian colleague wants to shake my hand, I shout don't give me Ebola.

running gag between me and him for 2 years now.

- I once told my Turkish colleague, a filthy Turk, His reply was , you are allowed to say that but your fellow office cunts are not.

- Said to A Moroccan he couldn't count ###### and he was ###### lazy.

- Asked a Flemish colleague to build a special position for a plane, had to help him out said he was a bit retarded (another political correctness word I can't use any more).

He Isn't retarded, but if you don't know after 15 years how to build it well ###### off you lazy frak.

 

Is it something I'm proud off.  To be honest yes, I can get away with a lot of things because I build up my career in that firm, they said ###### to me as well.  

I don't like political correctness, to me its hypocrite.  It doesn't deal with the way people have to interact daily with each other.

 

And people in the end need to let off some steam, if words hurt you then I think its time for you to grow up and stop acting like baby ( the next word you cant use probably),

take it on the chin and move forward.

 

Also this is a post I made without reading anything you guys said, but without being in someone's position bad or wrong, nobody should judge someone on what he literally said.

I'm pretty much the same way

Edited August 21, 2016 by WildCard

[JJFIVEOH]

I really don't think we need to censor our own words here. There is context, nobody is calling anybody an offensive word. It is part of the conversation. I think everybody here realizes there isn't any name-calling going on. 

[WildCard]

I really don't think we need to censor our own words here. There is context, nobody is calling anybody an offensive word. It is part of the conversation. I think everybody here realizes there isn't any name-calling going on. 

you, you damned cascade 

[Randall Flagg]

I really don't think we need to censor our own words here. There is context, nobody is calling anybody an offensive word. It is part of the conversation. I think everybody here realizes there isn't any name-calling going on.

In my case, I just censored the words that I knew the filter wouldn't let through

[JJFIVEOH]

###### you, you damned cascade 

 

 

In my case, I just censored the words that I knew the filter wouldn't let through

 

 

Haha, just saying, that's one thing that irks me when I see it on TV. I understand they can't say certain words, but when they use some offensive words in a non-offensive context (for instance a news story and they say 'n-word' or 'f-word') I don't understand what the issue is. It's part of the story. It's relevant to the discussion/news story. Nobody's trying to offend anybody, just trying to get the point across. 

[Eleven]

Haha, just saying, that's one thing that irks me when I see it on TV. I understand they can't say certain words, but when they use some offensive words in a non-offensive context (for instance a news story and they say 'n-word' or 'f-word') I don't understand what the issue is. It's part of the story. It's relevant to the discussion/news story. Nobody's trying to offend anybody, just trying to get the point across. 

 

When the words are being used as part of the discussion, I agree with you.  Use the words.

 

Tough to do on TV news, though, at least on the 5, 530, and 6 broadcasts.  Little ones and all that.

[Claude_Verret]

Here you go JJ, get ready for your head to explode..

 

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/26/university-of-north-carolina-saying-christmas-vaca/

[Huckleberry]

Here you go JJ, get ready for your head to explode..

 

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/26/university-of-north-carolina-saying-christmas-vaca/

 

I quit reading after two lines.

[Claude_Verret]

I quit reading after two lines.

"Golf outing" is offensive!

[Hoss]

I too had never heard of the pejorative Guinea.

 

Hard-to-believe but true story: I was a young adult before I realized the term "jewed" was a pejorative related to Jewish people.

My parents and their circle never used the word. The Jewish population where I grew up was virtually non-existent. My only exposure to it was a small handful of schoolyard references where a kid had complained he was getting ripped off. I literally thought it was spelled "jued" and was a legitimate, if obscure word for the act of being cheated.

 

I was absolutely ignorant in pure sense of the word, not at all in the willful sense.

 

It's entirely possible the way some of us regard(ed) the word hermaphrodite could fall into exactly the same scenario.

We realize our mistake, we don't repeat it.

When I was in third or fourth grade it was, for some reason, popular in my school to call things you don't like "Jewish." No sugar coating it or messing with the term. Just straight up "Jewish."

Because of this we learned that one of our teachers was actually Jewish through a few older kids. We had a computer class that we all loved because we typed on computers and played the Oregon Trail all day. One day she asked us all to shut down our computers but I was *so* close to finishing the game. I got mad when she turned my computer off for me so I said "why are you being so Jewish?" She calmly sent me to the principal's office where she joined me and explained to me, calmly, why the use of "Jewish" in that manner offended her.

After some haggling I understood and started telling my friends it wasn't okay to use it like that.

 

"Timehop" is a popular app that allows you to see what you posted on social media in the past. It does a "this day in history" for your social media posts. I saw the other day that I had several posts six years ago where I referred to things I didn't like as "gay." Was somewhat surprised that just six years ago I was of that mind, but I went to a VERY small school where everybody was white and the entire population was willingly offensive. With that said, I'm very impressed by the percentage of my friends who wouldn't be caught dead speaking in such an offensive way today.

[Eleven]

"Golf outing" is offensive!

 

I get "Christmas vacation."  That one's been out since I was a student.  But "golf outing"?  And the article does NOT explain it.

When I was in third or fourth grade it was, for some reason, popular in my school to call things you don't like "Jewish." No sugar coating it or messing with the term. Just straight up "Jewish."

Because of this we learned that one of our teachers was actually Jewish through a few older kids. We had a computer class that we all loved because we typed on computers and played the Oregon Trail all day. One day she asked us all to shut down our computers but I was *so* close to finishing the game. I got mad when she turned my computer off for me so I said "why are you being so Jewish?" She calmly sent me to the principal's office where she joined me and explained to me, calmly, why the use of "Jewish" in that manner offended her.

After some haggling I understood and started telling my friends it wasn't okay to use it like that.

 

"Timehop" is a popular app that allows you to see what you posted on social media in the past. It does a "this day in history" for your social media posts. I saw the other day that I had several posts six years ago where I referred to things I didn't like as "gay." Was somewhat surprised that just six years ago I was of that mind, but I went to a VERY small school where everybody was white and the entire population was willingly offensive. With that said, I'm very impressed by the percentage of my friends who wouldn't be caught dead speaking in such an offensive way today.

 

Like I've said a few times, language evolves.