Off Topic Political Correctness

[Marvelo]

F political correctness.

[Hoss]

F political correctness.

You just censored yourself while bemoaning censorship.

[Eleven]

I specifically started this thread to keep it out of there. 

 

Fair point.

 

You just censored yourself while bemoaning censorship.

 

Funny point.

[WildCard]

I specifically started this thread to keep it out of there.

Fair enough. The same things are discussed in there though, it's all political either way. That thread is 591 pages, I just don't want two politics threads becoming the largest on the board

[Sabel79]

^Hoss ... I like that. There are, though, deeply honorable people in the South who speak of the Confederate flag with a reverence born in some of the same values "the rest of us" share.

Symbols ... we find in them much of what we bring to them.

It's perfectly legal in all states to own a nazi flag. It's a crime to display it in certain circumstances in most states...

[Neo]

It's perfectly legal in all states to own a nazi flag. It's a crime to display it in certain circumstances in most states...

I had no idea that it was a crime ... curious.

[JJFIVEOH]

Fair point.

 

 

Funny point.

 

 

Fair enough. The same things are discussed in there though, it's all political either way. That thread is 591 pages, I just don't want two politics threads becoming the largest on the board

 

I see where you guys are going. I just think that the PC stuff is where the other threads sometimes go off the handle. The political thread, the Kane thread.......We can be talking about Kane, or politics but when the subject gets dicey people either get upset with each other or they leave because it's offensive. 

 

I just figured this thread could be a place to go to for those who don't get offended easily, or don't mind talking about those touchy subjects while derailing the other threads. Or even to be a thread where we can go knowing we can talk about potentially offensive topics knowing that nobody is intentionally trying to belittle anybody.  

[Sabel79]

I had no idea that it was a crime ... curious.

I'll cite the Virginia (the one state in which I'm licensed to practice law) code section on the subject:

 

http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter9/section18.2-423.1/

[Eleven]

I'll cite the Virginia (the one state in which I'm licensed to practice law) code section on the subject:

 

http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter9/section18.2-423.1/

 

Lawyer confirmed.

 

PS the section in question deals with intention to intimidate.  You're still allowed to wave whatever crazy you want to in this country.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Eleven

[Hoss]

Lawyer confirmed.

 

PS the section in question deals with intention to intimidate.  You're still allowed to wave whatever crazy ###### you want to in this country.

Would the same apply to the confederate flag? I imagine so, because the judge who ruled the flag can still fly stated he only made the decision because there wasn't "legal injury." Would using the flag as a way to intentionally intimidate black people be that?

[Sabel79]

Lawyer confirmed.

 

PS the section in question deals with intention to intimidate.  You're still allowed to wave whatever crazy ###### you want to in this country.

  

Would the same apply to the confederate flag? I imagine so, because the judge who ruled the flag can still fly stated he only made the decision because there wasn't "legal injury." Would using the flag as a way to intentionally intimidate black people be that?

I was careful to use "in certain circumstances"

 

To Hoss: nope.

[Eleven]

Would the same apply to the confederate flag? I imagine so, because the judge who ruled the flag can still fly stated he only made the decision because there wasn't "legal injury." Would using the flag as a way to intentionally intimidate black people be that?

 

The man gave you a link!  Click on it.  

 

It has to do with swastikas.

[Sabel79]

Lawyer confirmed.

 

PS the section in question deals with intention to intimidate. You're still allowed to wave whatever crazy ###### you want to in this country.

And, not to get too inside baseball, but Virginia is a slavishly common law state. Intent gets inferred all over the place.

 

Edit: pun not intended, but still funny.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Sabres79

[Hoss]

The man gave you a link! Click on it.

 

It has to do with swastikas.

I know. I read the link. That's why I asked because I wasn't sure if there were other similar ramifications for other symbols.

 

I also wonder if you could consider it a hate crime if you could prove somebody used the confederate flag to intimidate a black person in some fashion.

[Sabel79]

I think the statutes regarding burning crosses, swastikas, doing various types of harm (to person and property) based on race, religion, and so on, followed by absolute crickets afterwards and the fact that we just had a damned Supreme Court case as to whether Virginia could still put the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia on license plates (no, but because it was Virginia's idea to knock it off) settles this issue.

[MattPie]

I am no Confederate flag person. I am an American flag person.

 

So, ignoring my view, one of 330 million views, can I say this with regard to consistent treatment of both?

 

Both are symbols. Both have proponents where one symbol represents honorable and dignified things, and some things not, to those proponents. Both have opponents where the symbol represents dishonorable and undignified things, and some things not, to those opponents.

 

Both should be afforded the same respect and treatment by our courts as symbols of the free speech of those who hold the symbols dear.

 

I understand your view. You brought it to your compelling analysis. I can't say one's good and one's bad without bringing my prejudice, choice, value system into the conversation. I won't do that without respecting your prejudices, choices, and value system.

 

They're not the same after you interject yourself. They are the same, before.

 

A symbol at an NFL game, on a truck decal ... a man on his knee, a man driving with Leonard Skynard on his sound system ... Reverent and offended all around, all citizens.

 

I know my value system, and I react. The Mississippian says the same thing.

 

I was rushed last night, but I'll clarify: I don't have an issue with people flying the Confederate Flag (even if I think they're morons for doing it), that's their right. What I disagree with is trying to draw parallels to Kapernick's protest. Maybe I'm clouded by my bias, but it seems like the Patriotic Correctness brigade grasping at straws to justify their anger at someone expressing their views because they disagree with them.

[Marvelo]

You just censored yourself while bemoaning censorship.

 

Edited September 12, 2016 by Marvelo

[Neo]

I was rushed last night, but I'll clarify: I don't have an issue with people flying the Confederate Flag (even if I think they're morons for doing it), that's their right. What I disagree with is trying to draw parallels to Kapernick's protest. Maybe I'm clouded by my bias, but it seems like the Patriotic Correctness brigade grasping at straws to justify their anger at someone expressing their views because they disagree with them.

I am not anti-Kaepernick's stance. I understand you didn't say I was. More concisely, I agree.

[Stoner]

Are lawn jockeys politically incorrect? Are they a racist symbol? My neighbor has one on his porch. And Blue Lives Matter and Trump stuff on his truck. Go figure.

[That Aud Smell]

Are lawn jockeys politically incorrect? Are they a racist symbol? My neighbor has one on his porch. And Blue Lives Matter and Trump stuff on his truck. Go figure.

 

There's all sorts of noise out there on the internet that would argue otherwise** (because of course there is), but, IMO: Yes, and yes. Those things are racial caricatures that portray the figures as intrepid servants of some kind.

 

 

** Some examples I've heard/read: (1) The statutes actually trace to the underground railroad where they served as signals or way markers (rubbish). (2) The statues are intended to honour the heroism of a certain slavery-era black American or Americans (almost certainly rubbish).

[darksabre]

Are lawn jockeys politically incorrect? Are they a racist symbol? My neighbor has one on his porch. And Blue Lives Matter and Trump stuff on his truck. Go figure.

 

That's a tough one. It depends on which history of their origin you believe. It also depends on what style of lawn jockey you have. It probably also depends on whether or not you are, in fact, a racist. 

 

I would say yes because it portrays black people in a servant role, but I can't speak for black people on this one. 

 

White faced lawn jockeys showed up at some point. Probably so people could avoid accusations of racism. There's a little...implied guilt there. 

[Stoner]

There's all sorts of noise out there on the internet that would argue otherwise** (because of course there is), but, IMO: Yes, and yes. Those things are racial caricatures that portray the figures as intrepid servants of some kind.

 

 

** Some examples I've heard/read: (1) The statutes actually trace to the underground railroad where they served as signals or way markers (rubbish). (2) The statues are intended to honour the heroism of a certain slavery-era black American or Americans (almost certainly rubbish).

Even if those stories are not apocryphal (word of the day desk calendar), how likely is it that modern lawn jockey owners are honoring those brave, heroic blacks?

[That Aud Smell]

White faced lawn jockeys showed up at some point. Probably so people could avoid accusations of racism. There's a little...implied guilt there. 

 

I have a neighbour whose lawn jockey had its face painted light pink (white) at some point. When it starts to peel and fleck, you can see the darker paint underneath. The facial features on that thing are still consistent with the style in which the jockeys were generally created (cartoonishly flat nose, huge lips)..

 

Even if those stories are not apocryphal (word of the day desk calendar), how likely is it that modern lawn jockey owners are honoring those brave, heroic blacks?

 

My sense is that 9 out of 10 people (maybe more) who have them don't know what they are or what they might signify -- just that they're a piece of memorabilia that has been in the family (or part of the property) for generations.

[Eleven]

There's all sorts of noise out there on the internet that would argue otherwise** (because of course there is), but, IMO: Yes, and yes. Those things are racial caricatures that portray the figures as intrepid servants of some kind.

 

 

** Some examples I've heard/read: (1) The statutes actually trace to the underground railroad where they served as signals or way markers (rubbish). (2) The statues are intended to honour the heroism of a certain slavery-era black American or Americans (almost certainly rubbish).

 

That must be why I see them on the lawns of so many black people.

[darksabre]

I have a neighbour whose lawn jockey had its face painted light pink (white) at some point. When it starts to peel and fleck, you can see the darker paint underneath. The facial features on that thing are still consistent with the style in which the jockeys were generally created (cartoonishly flat nose, huge lips)..

 

 

My sense is that 9 out of 10 people (maybe more) who have them don't know what they are or what they might signify -- just that they're a piece of memorabilia that has been in the family (or part of the property) for generations.

 

My grandfather has one outside his house. I'm not going to tell him to take it down because he's like...93, so why bother. Is my grandfather a racist? I have no idea. I've never heard him say anything about black people, good or bad. I assumed he's not. But I can't really confirm that either. If he is, he's not actively so. Which I guess is the best way to be racist? 

 

I wouldn't put one in front of my house, that's for sure.