Forwards, Forwards and more Forwards. The Sabres are overflowing with quality forwards

[GASabresIUFAN]

I am new to this board, but I don't see that this has been discussed.  If it has, please forgive me :)

 

With all the Vesey talk, Nylander's performance in D Camp, the Okposo signing and the recent prospect (Cornel and Karabacek) signings, I don't remember a time in Sabres history when we had this kind of quality forward depth in the system and I'm not sure there are enough pucks to go around.

 

Right now the Buffalo depth chart looks something like this

Ennis ROR Okposo

Kane Eichel Reinhart

Foligno Larsson Gionta

Moulson Girgensons Deslauriers

 

In Rochester we have right now

Carrier COR Bailey

Catennacci Grant Fasching

Schneider Cornel Baptiste

Dupuy Kea Rodrigues

Karabacek and Muzito-Bagenda (Swedish kid signed to an AHL contract)

 

That's 26 forwards under contract with 7 guys in Roch with NHL experience from last year (Grant [Clg], Bailey, Schneider, COR, Fasching, Catenacci and Rodrigues) and most of the kids didn't look out of place.  Now add 2 more who could have received callups in Carrier and Dupuy; plus the possible additions of Nylander and maybe Vesey to the mix and you have a ton of talent fighting for NHL jobs in training camp.  This is a great thing for the season in both Buffalo and Rochester, but it could also mean that someone (or a couple of someones) are going to get sent packing. Kane? Ennis? Girgensons? Even Foligno?

 

Seriously what does GMTM do when Vesey (I think he'll sign here), Nylander and Bailey dominate in training camp?  I believe that Vesey (assuming he signs) and Nylander are our No 1&2 LW's for the next 5 years plus, but is the future now?  I believe that Bailey is Gionta's replacement in 2017-18, but could he force his way on the team now?  Will GMTM start both Nylander and Bailey in Rochester just to avoid having to move someone out at bargain prices?  If those guys start in Rochester, what does that do to the PT for talented rookies like Cornel and Karabacek?

 

If it were up to me, I'd give the 4th line RW role to Bailey to let him get acclimated to the NHL.  Playing with guys like Girgensons and Moulson would fit his game and should give the Sabres real production from a 4th line.  I'd start Nylander in the AHL to gain pro experience and improve his 2 way game.   

 

    

 

 

[North Buffalo]

Welcome and great post, agree its been a while since this kinda of depth... Sabres now need some D depth not much but some. Camp should be interesting.

[Eleven]

It is being discussed in a couple of threads, but no reason why we can't have a new thread just for this.

 

Welcome, BTW.

 

I think Murray will make some trades.  Forwards packaged for D.  

 

And the team is allowed 50 contracts, and apparently uses approximately 1 for goaltending.  So there's a little room.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I agree that odds are that someone gets traded, but when?  Does GMTM wait until training camp to deal or do we see a move soon?

[dudacek]

Is anyone still complaining that Murray traded away our depth in the O'Reilly and Kane trades?

There are legitimate prospects that will be riding the pine in Rochester.

[Randall Flagg]

Is anyone still complaining that Murray traded away our depth in the O'Reilly and Kane trades?

There are legitimate prospects that will be riding the pine in Rochester.

Seriously. On hf, people rail on the Sabres for giving up so many pieces, as if they would have somehow had the cap and contract limits waived had they not made those trades.

 

Plus I don't think any of us miss Drew, Lemieux, Armia, Grigs etc all that much.

[beerme1]

yse325 welcome here! I chuckled when I saw you mention this in another thread that you were thinking of starting a new thread about this. Don't be intimidated by anyone's rants here. We're all blowhards sometimes in here and get to comfy with a few threads and it seems like nothing is happening but inside one those thread is war of the worlds or something lol. 

 

I agree we are starting to show solid depth. I do think GMTM has a move coming that will see another d man added and wont be surprised that he alleviates the forward depth somewhat. Could be something like Kane, Girgs and a prospect for Barrie or Shatty or something like that.

 

Nice job with the avatar by the way.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Thx. I am a big Housley fan. I have another photo of Larry Carriere jumping on a Seal, but I'll save that one for another time.

 

The only player I miss that was traded away is Compher.

 

I want Vesey to sign here, because I think he is great fit for us and we for him long-term; frankly better then all his other options. However, the progress Bailey and Carrier have made along with the drafting of Nylander makes me very comfortable about our future on the wing even without him.

 

As to trading forwards for D, I really only want to upgrade Franson this season at this point. Between Guhle, Nelson and Borgen I think we have a enough depth in the system to replace guys like Franson, Bogo and Gorges long-term as their contracts end. However, we need a bridge player or two in the 5/6/7 slots at the NHL level until these prospects are ready. I think you'll see hockey type trades in this area once we get deep into training camp; depth forwards to depth defensemen.

[beerme1]

The only player I miss that was traded away is Compher.

 

 

As to trading forwards for D, I really only want to upgrade Franson this season at this point. Between Guhle, Nelson and Borgen I think we have a enough depth in the system to replace guys like Franson, Bogo and Gorges long-term as their contracts end. However, we need a bridge player or two in the 5/6/7 slots at the NHL level until these prospects are ready. I think you'll see hockey type trades in this area once we get deep into training camp; depth forwards to depth defensemen.

 

 

Compher should be good. Lemieux could be good and there is surely more to follow and some that will hurt. Compher hurt but the payoff outweighs the hurt immensely. Could be a Fasching as part of a deal too if they decide Marcus has the right stuff. And that would also hurt.

I want to say it's a luxury to have this budding issue but dammit look where we've been the last five, six years. Drew Stafford could have been 1st line over some of those years but it's a good thing we got rid of him. And that goes back to GMTM being able to utilize the assets. In GMTM I trust. Hell the Lehner deal that he still gets flack about fits into all this also. We accumulated so many picks it 's ridiculous. We cant use them all so some will become gifts to other teams.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I would hate to lose Fasching. The kid has a great family story and I root hard for him.

 

If I had to list forwards by odds of getting trading I rank them as follows:

1) Girgensons - probably has the most trade value because of age, 2 way ability and ability to play multiple positions. Larsson's emergence makes him somewhat expendable.

2) Ennis - past production, reasonable contract and ability to play any forward position gives him value, but only if he proves he is healthy. Okposo's signing moves him back to LW, and if Vesey signs he could be expendable.

3) Kane - bad behavior makes him a cancer in GMTM eyes, but also kills his trade value. Again needs to straighten up and fly right.

4) Foligno - if Carrier is ready, he could force a Foligno trade.

5) Larsson - If Girgensons gets his game back, I can see GMTM trading Larsson instead. However our NHL quality centers are in short supply, although COR could be serviceable 4th line center if necessary.

6) Deslauriers - seems like good kid, but our forward depth makes him expendable.

[pi2000]

I think we're getting ahead of ourselves a bit. These kids look good on paper, but until some of them start to put up some numbers in the pros, they're merely prospects.

[North Buffalo]

I think we're getting ahead of ourselves a bit. These kids look good on paper, but until some of them start to put up some numbers in the pros, they're merely prospects.

Some but Ghule and Nelson and Borgen getting there on D, On O Bailey and Rodriquez along with Fasching could be ready to go... throw in Nylander possibly and if only 2 outta that group make it... Sabres are doing fine.

[nfreeman]

Welcome YSE!

[bob_sauve28]

Great post, keep them coming. I'm assuming that last years forwards start the season. Boy, wouldn't it be great if Ennis is back to 100%! What an "addition" to the line up. I suppose the kids will be called up sooner or later for injurie reasons and they will have to play like they want to stay and force the organization to keep them and we go from there.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Here's the thing, once the lineup is filled out in such a way that we are truly competitive we're going to have excess players in Rochester for a change. We're not going to have to bring guys up instantly. Think of a guy like Tyler Toffoli in LA. People were lusting after him for at least 2 years because there was "no room" on the Kings roster. Fast forward a couple years and roster turnover opened up a spot.

 

In that spirit, there's no way Nylander makes the club unless he is 100% ready to rock. Let that ELC slide.

 

Deslauriers is the kind of player everyone needs on the 4th line. He's a good skater, he likes to take the body, he's not a terrible liability in his own end and he can score a little. Best of all he's dirt cheap. We're going to continue to need a couple guys like him as we walk the salary cap line. The guys who will end up moving out are the ones who fill that same role but become too expensive. Foligno is getting to that point soon unless his offense kicks up.

I agree in general. Its why I listed Deslauriers last on my trade list and have Carrier eventually replacing Foligno. GMTM has been very clear that he wants his prospects long-term to mature in Rochester like Toffoli did in LA. However, some guys are just ready or mature quickly and I think Bailey is one of those guys. I think he is really going to force the issue at training camp.

 

It's going to be interesting to see how Lambert gives out PT to all the kids in Rochester. Take the RW group for example. Who is higher on the pecking order between Bailey, Fasching, Baptiste and Rodrigues. Those are 4 guys who in many respects are relatively even in prospect quality except Bailey who is currently ahead on the pecking order. However, I don't think I'd get an argument that all 4 have an NHL future. The problem is Reinhart, Okposo and soon Bailey in the top 3 slots in Buffalo, where can the other 3 play here long-term?

Edited July 14, 2016 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

I agree in general. Its why I listed Deslauriers last on my trade list and have Carrier eventually replacing Foligno. GMTM has been very clear that he wants his prospects long-term to mature in Rochester like Toffoli did in LA. However, some guys are just ready or mature quickly and I think Bailey is one of those guys. I think he is really going to force the issue at training camp.

 

It's going to be interesting to see how Lambert gives out PT to all the kids in Rochester. Take the RW group for example. Who is higher on the pecking order between Bailey, Fasching, Baptiste and Rodrigues. Those are 4 guys who in many respects are relatively even in prospect quality except Bailey who is currently ahead on the pecking order. However, I don't think I'd get an argument that all 4 have an NHL future. The problem is Reinhart, Okposo and soon Bailey in the top 3 slots in Buffalo, where can the other 3 play here long-term?

I disagree with you here. I agree that Bailey is at the top of the list but Evan Rodrigues is a soon to be 23 year old. He's almost 2 full years older than the other 3 players. I think right now that order is very clear. Bailey, Fasching, Baptiste, Rodrigues. With Gionta out next year, the possibility of Reinhart moving to center in time and the need for a 4th line RW, I think you can say that two of those guys within 2 years will get a shot with the big club. I understand the original point was about PT in Rochester but I think that will be dictated by who is higher on the list to head to Buffalo. I think Fasching or Baptiste will have to battle it out for the last spot on the roster maybe as soon as next year. 

 

I like having to keep forwards down in Rochester. It means the rebuild is coming along. These guys are going to have to elivate their games to make an impact and make the team. Gone are the days of Matt Da'Agostini and Phil Varone as mainstays on the Buffalo roster. Now players actually have to be better than guys like Zemgus or Foligno or (you get the idea), I just hope our defense catches up with them but that is probably 2-3 years away sadly.

[beerme1]

 

 

I like having to keep forwards down in Rochester. It means the rebuild is coming along. These guys are going to have to elivate their games to make an impact and make the team. Gone are the days of Matt Da'Agostini and Phil Varone as mainstays on the Buffalo roster. Now players actually have to be better than guys like Zemgus or Foligno or (you get the idea), I just hope our defense catches up with them but that is probably 2-3 years away sadly.

 

Rip Matt Ellis from the Sabres lineup forever. Amen.

[mphs mike]

Thx. I am a big Housley fan. I have another photo of Larry Carriere jumping on a Seal, but I'll save that one for another time.

 

The only player I miss that was traded away is Compher.

 

I want Vesey to sign here, because I think he is great fit for us and we for him long-term; frankly better then all his other options. However, the progress Bailey and Carrier have made along with the drafting of Nylander makes me very comfortable about our future on the wing even without him.

 

As to trading forwards for D, I really only want to upgrade Franson this season at this point. Between Guhle, Nelson and Borgen I think we have a enough depth in the system to replace guys like Franson, Bogo and Gorges long-term as their contracts end. However, we need a bridge player or two in the 5/6/7 slots at the NHL level until these prospects are ready. I think you'll see hockey type trades in this area once we get deep into training camp; depth forwards to depth defensemen.

 

 

Thx. I am a big Housley fan. I have another photo of Larry Carriere jumping on a Seal, but I'll save that one for another time.

 

The only player I miss that was traded away is Compher.

 

I want Vesey to sign here, because I think he is great fit for us and we for him long-term; frankly better then all his other options. However, the progress Bailey and Carrier have made along with the drafting of Nylander makes me very comfortable about our future on the wing even without him.

 

As to trading forwards for D, I really only want to upgrade Franson this season at this point. Between Guhle, Nelson and Borgen I think we have a enough depth in the system to replace guys like Franson, Bogo and Gorges long-term as their contracts end. However, we need a bridge player or two in the 5/6/7 slots at the NHL level until these prospects are ready. I think you'll see hockey type trades in this area once we get deep into training camp; depth forwards to depth defensemen.

I think I recall the Carriere photo - are both of his legs flying in the air, almost parallel to the ice? 

[Taro T]

I think I recall the Carriere photo - are both of his legs flying in the air, almost parallel to the ice?

 

That's Eddie Shack.

[beerme1]

That's Eddie Shack.

 

What a character he was! Clear the track Here comes Shack!

[mphs mike]

[MODO Hockey]

Most welcome buddy! great post! =)

 

Its good to have a big sack of skill to pick from, if the players are all in for the actuall assignment to actually prove them selfs it shouldt be a problem to move

guys up and down and try them out, and you never know what happends, players might get injured, so id feel pretty comfortable to have these guys

below ready to take their shot.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Right photo. I thought it was Carriere, but I think you are correct it was Eddie Shack.

 

The other thing about our depth is that more quality is coming and soon. Asplund, Pu, and Estephan plus guys like Hagel and Glotov have been impressive.

[The Jokeman]

I would hate to lose Fasching. The kid has a great family story and I root hard for him.

 

If I had to list forwards by odds of getting trading I rank them as follows:

1) Girgensons - probably has the most trade value because of age, 2 way ability and ability to play multiple positions. Larsson's emergence makes him somewhat expendable.

2) Ennis - past production, reasonable contract and ability to play any forward position gives him value, but only if he proves he is healthy. Okposo's signing moves him back to LW, and if Vesey signs he could be expendable.

3) Kane - bad behavior makes him a cancer in GMTM eyes, but also kills his trade value. Again needs to straighten up and fly right.

4) Foligno - if Carrier is ready, he could force a Foligno trade.

5) Larsson - If Girgensons gets his game back, I can see GMTM trading Larsson instead. However our NHL quality centers are in short supply, although COR could be serviceable 4th line center if necessary.

6) Deslauriers - seems like good kid, but our forward depth makes him expendable.

Larsson could also be expendable if Rasmus Asplund develops into the two way/3rd line Center many predict. IMO Girgensons a bit over rated in my eyes as see him as a third liner at best and gladly move him for a top 4 Dman with a guy like Bailey whom also not sold on. Edited July 14, 2016 by The Jokeman

[North Buffalo]

Larsson could also be expendable if Rasmus Asplund develops into the two way/3rd line Center many predict. IMO Girgensons a bit over rated in my eyes as see him as a third liner at best and gladly move him for a top 4 Dman with a guy like Bailey whom also not sold on.

I like Larsson over some of the new toys he started coming into his own. Again Gionta, Foligno and Larsson with his forecheck make a nice line. Rodriquez could replace Gionta on that line to really make a pest line. Edited July 15, 2016 by North Buffalo