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Posted

I also agree with the point K-9 was making about how it's weak sauce to fault Vesey for wanting to pick his spot. He's done a lotta hard work to get to where he is, and the rules permit him to choose his own path. If anything, I think this speaks well of him.

That's not what he wrote though. He said that we can't fault Vesey for wanting to maximize the money he'll get due to his increased production.

Posted

His earnings would have been maximized by signing with Nashville after his college season ended. He'd have been paid for last season and his ELC would have kicked in a year sooner. He left substantial money on the table by NOT signing with Nashville.

Not something I was aware of. Also thanks for the clarification. 

Posted

I didn't know that, thanks for the clarification.

 

So now we are just mad at him for taking advantage of a rule that allows him to choose his place of employment.

 

Got it.

 

GO SABRES!!!

I see the goal posts moving now.

Posted

That's not what he wrote though. He said that we can't fault Vesey for wanting to maximize the money he'll get due to his increased production.

After others were kind enough to provide information I wasn't aware of, I pared it down to, "now we are just mad at Vesey for taking advantage of a rule that allows him to choose his place of employment."

 

And I said nothing about "increased production." I simply pointed out that he improved his game from 3rd round prospect to a top 10 in the draft prospect. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

I see the goal posts moving now.

Not at all. 

 

Look, I appreciate the added information about what Nashville offered. I wasn't aware they offered him the max ELC. 

 

The goal posts are stopped at being mad at him for taking advantage of a rule that allows him a say in where he plays. 

 

I think we're done now. 

 

GO SABRES!!

Posted

That's not what he wrote though. 

 

 

Four years ago he was drafted as a third round prospect. In those interim four years, he developed as a prospect to the point where he would have been a top 10 choice in this year's draft. 

 

There is a rule in place that allows four year college players to become UFAs. 

 

If anyone here had increased his value as a player like Vesey has, would you still sign with your original team or would you take advantage of a rule that allows you to maximize your earnings? 

 

I think he did say, or imply, what I wrote above. K-9 may not have intended to refer to increasing career earning potential by landing in the best possible place, but that's what I inferred.

Posted

I think he did say, or imply, what I wrote above. K-9 may not have intended to refer to increasing career earning potential by landing in the best possible place, but that's what I inferred.

My entire premise was based on his original status as a 3rd round pick vs. his status as a prospect that would have gone top 10 in the draft. As I stated, I didn't know that Nashville had offered him the max and I don't think it unreasonable to assume they might have started negotiations the 3rd round point of view.

 

Kas is just mad that I used the word "stupid". Which I think it is when everyone here would have done the same thing. At least anyone that actually values having a say in where they work. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

Posted

I've been thinking some about the 'top 10 in the draft' phrase.  Vesey

was drafted in 2012, but he could have been drafted in 2011, so I try

to compare him to players in the 2011 draft, this way he's not a year older

than everyone else.

 

I think 'top 10 in the 2012 draft' is a fair statement, it was a fairly weak

draft and he's a year older than everyone else, but comparing Vesey to the

2011 draft, I think 20th is as high as I could go. My model has him 13th in 2014,

and 27th in 2015.  This is the 2015 year for that age group:

 

1 JOHNNY GAUDREAU NHL 2528
2 DOUGIE HAMILTON NHL 2454
3 NIKITA KUCHEROV NHL 2222
4 COLTON PARAYKO NHL 2005
5 GABRIEL LANDESKOG NHL 1990
6 MARK SCHEIFELE NHL 1925
7 BRANDON SAAD NHL 1739
8 JONATHAN HUBERDEAU NHL 1739
9 OSCAR KLEFBOM NHL 1728
10 VICTOR RASK NHL 1536
11 VINCENT TROCHECK NHL 1484
12 VIKTOR ARVIDSSON AHL 1472
13 SHAYNE GOSTISBEHERE NHL 1423
14 MIKA ZIBANEJAD NHL 1410
15 SEAN COUTURIER NHL 1387
16 JOSH LEIVO AHL 1387
17 RYAN NUGENT-HOPKINS NHL 1385
18 DARREN DIETZ NHL 1371
19 BOONE JENNER NHL 1339
20 RICKARD RAKELL NHL 1338
21 BEN HUTTON NHL 1280
22 SETH GRIFFITH AHL 1256
23 COLIN SMITH AHL 1236
24 DANIEL PRIBYL Czech 1200
25 J.T. MILLER NHL 1175
26 NATHAN BEAULIEU NHL 1154  
27 JIMMY VESEY NCAA 1150

Posted

That's just my raw valuation.  Rule of thumb is that 1000 is an NHL player, If you get there at 18 you will be great, if you get there at 22, you'll be OK

Where would Vesey have gone in this year's draft? He's better player than he was four years ago. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

Posted

Where would Vesey have gone in this year's draft? He's better player than he was four years ago. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

That's not a fair comparison. Vesey is 23 and you want him compared to 17/18year olds.

Posted

Anybody know why Vesey didn't sign with NSH after his junior season?   He had a monster year and was 2nd place in Hobey Baker voting (to Jack). 

 

I applaud academics, but that's unusual for a player of his caliber at his age (22 at the time) to return to school for a 4th year.

 

If he stayed in school to get his degree, then I salute him, but if it was just to avoid NSH, then I lose some amount respect for him.    I guess we'll never know.

Posted

That's not a fair comparison. Vesey is 23 and you want him compared to 17/18year olds.

I understand that. Just curious. He's a far better player than he was four years ago. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

Posted

I understand that. Just curious. He's a far better player than he was four years ago. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

The list is year 2015, it has nothing to do with 2011, I'm just comparing his 2015 year to other players his age

Posted

Anybody know why Vesey didn't sign with NSH after his junior season?   He had a monster year and was 2nd place in Hobey Baker voting (to Jack). 

 

I applaud academics, but that's unusual for a player of his caliber at his age (22 at the time) to return to school for a 4th year.

 

If he stayed in school to get his degree, then I salute him, but if it was just to avoid NSH, then I lose some amount respect for him.    I guess we'll never know.

A Harvard University diploma or playing a year between the AHL and NHL? I think he made the right choice regardless of motivation. In this instance, the school does matter.  

Posted

The list is year 2015, it has nothing to do with 2011, I'm just comparing his 2015 year to other players his age

It's all good. Greatly appreciate your formulas and the work you put in applying them. Great stuff. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

Posted

Anybody know why Vesey didn't sign with NSH after his junior season?   He had a monster year and was 2nd place in Hobey Baker voting (to Jack). 

 

I applaud academics, but that's unusual for a player of his caliber at his age (22 at the time) to return to school for a 4th year.

 

If he stayed in school to get his degree, then I salute him, but if it was just to avoid NSH, then I lose some amount respect for him.    I guess we'll never know.

 

A Harvard University diploma or playing a year between the AHL and NHL? I think he made the right choice regardless of motivation. In this instance, the school does matter.  

 

I think that, by then, he'd already decided he wasn't going to sign with the Preds and knew he had to play is final college year to get to free agency.  Not really a mystery.

Posted

I choose to believe it has always been his lifelong dream to play on the same team that drafted his heroes, Danny Paille and Jason Dawe.

This topic is OLD. A NEW topic should be started unless there is a VERY SPECIFIC REASON to revive this one.

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