Vesey signs with Rangers; huge thread now moot

[Claude_Verret]

My take.... As much as we hate to admit it, even with Eichel the Sabres are still in FA hell. It took trading for his rights to get him to hear our pitch, otherwise we wouldn't have been able to get a chance to sell the team to him. I think GMTM took a gamble and moved a 3rd rd pick to get a chance at a kid that he wouldn't have had a chance with otherwise.

 

And I'm OK with that.

 

Now lets go win some playoff games and get out of FA hell, FFS.

Yep, it took a 3rd round pick to even get a seat at the table and Eichel wasn't enough to overcome Because Buffalo when all the marquee markets are in the running.

[3putt]

Sorry to burst your PA bubble, but the Sabs were the team that landed the biggest FA this year, and Okposo was him.

You are not bursting anything. This is analogous to a tallest midget debate. Okposo is a nice player, but a playoff team didn't seem to think he was worth the price he was asking. Because he was a free agent and he signed here is not evidence of the desirability of Buffalo, but rather that based on the offers this was the most lucrative. Okposo reportedly was courted by the Canadiens but did not want to raise his young children in a bilingual environment. Okposo is a nice player but I doubt other desirable destinations were offering the same money. Staying put would have been optimum and they didn't even tender an offer.

[3putt]

I 'll raise you. If the Sabres can sign Hudler to a 2.5 aav for less than 2 years I'll say Buffalo is a desirable FA destination. I think that is what he is worth and the length of contract I am willing to give.

[Hoss]

If Jiri Hudler is the tipping point on whether Buffalo is a desirable free agent destination then best of luck to you

[dudacek]

You are not bursting anything. This is analogous to a tallest midget debate. Okposo is a nice player, but a playoff team didn't seem to think he was worth the price he was asking. Because he was a free agent and he signed here is not evidence of the desirability of Buffalo, but rather that based on the offers this was the most lucrative. Okposo reportedly was courted by the Canadiens but did not want to raise his young children in a bilingual environment. Okposo is a nice player but I doubt other desirable destinations were offering the same money. Staying put would have been optimum and they didn't even tender an offer.

There is a report cited in the Okposo thread about the Islanders approaching him last summer about an extension and balking when he asked for $7 million. Not sure if that contradicts your point or supports it.

Edited August 20, 2016 by dudacek

[WildCard]

Let me know what day he hit free agency.

Wasn't a free agent (technically)

Indeed he was

[3putt]

It is not the player but value. I think he will be offered around 2.5 to 3. 2.5 for 2 years would be a good signing. If we have to pay more or he signs elsewhere for that amount is definitely probative.

[Hoss]

Indeed he was

He never hit free agency. Didn't survive the Foreplay Window.

[3putt]

There is a report cited in the Okposo thread about the Islanders approaching him last summer about an extension and balking when he asked for $7 million. Not sure if that contradicts your point or supports it.

And they didn't counter but rather let him go to ufa.

[dudacek]

It is not the player but value. I think he will be offered around 2.5 to 3. 2.5 for 2 years would be a good signing. If we have to pay more or he signs elsewhere for that amount is definitely probative.

If I read you correctly, the only way Buffalo will ever sign a free agent is to overpay, therefore if they do sign one, like Okposo, they must have overpaid. Nice little argument you've built yourself there.

[WildCard]

He never hit free agency. Didn't survive the Foreplay Window.

Does anyone?

[Thorner]

A proven 28-year-old winger who has been among the NHL's highest point producing wingers over the past three seasons chooses to come to Buffalo and generates a 400-post thread that dies out about a week after his signing.

An unproven 23-year-old winger who is one of the best players in college hockey over the past two seasons chooses not to come to Buffalo after generating a 3,100-post thread that keeps growing.

Because Buffalo.

/perspective

 

You are not bursting anything. This is analogous to a tallest midget debate. Okposo is a nice player, but a playoff team didn't seem to think he was worth the price he was asking. Because he was a free agent and he signed here is not evidence of the desirability of Buffalo, but rather that based on the offers this was the most lucrative. Okposo reportedly was courted by the Canadiens but did not want to raise his young children in a bilingual environment. Okposo is a nice player but I doubt other desirable destinations were offering the same money. Staying put would have been optimum and they didn't even tender an offer.

You are drastically undervaluing Okposo and drastically underestimating the level of interest he had around the league. It's like you *want* to believe we can't get big names. He was the TOP free agent, a solidly first line level scorer, and if we didn't pay him what we did, someone would have.

 

Okposo coming to Buffalo damn sure means more than Vesey not.

Does anyone?

After a few beers, sure.

[3putt]

If I read you correctly, the only way Buffalo will ever sign a free agent is to overpay, therefore if they do sign one, like Okposo, they must have overpaid. Nice little argument you've built yourself there.

You didn't even bother to address why his team didn't even negotiate. Nice little self righteous indignation you've built for yourself.

[Thorner]

You didn't even bother to address why his team didn't even negotiate. Nice little self righteous indignation you've built for yourself.

The fact that they signed a RAPIDLY declining Andrew Ladd to a big money long term deal should tell you all you need to know about their player evaluation.

[3putt]

That cuts both ways. Maybe Ladd is better than you wish to believe and Okposo is not. The fact remains the Isles felt Okposo was replaceable for a lot less than he was asking. And before you retort to it is the Isles, remember they were in the playoffs and we weren't. Is that dispositive? Not by any means but I don't think simply dismissing the fact that the team with the most knowledge of Okposo's value chose to sit it out.

 

I also think people are missing my point. Until we have a track record of winning, we are not as desirable a destination as people may think based on our potential. As a result we must pay a premium for FA s to come here.

[DirtDart]

I would have loved to have Vessey in blue and gold. Fact of the matter is, he is an unproven player that generated a lot of hype. Our team does not get any worse with him signing in NYC. We still have a lot of pieces that will make this team better waiting in the system.  GMTM did his due diligence in trying to add another piece, I applaud that.  I bet Chicago isn't crying about him not signing there.

 

We are fine, probably better off he didn't sign here.

[LGR4GM]

That cuts both ways. Maybe Ladd is better than you wish to believe and Okposo is not. The fact remains the Isles felt Okposo was replaceable for a lot less than he was asking. And before you retort to it is the Isles, remember they were in the playoffs and we weren't. Is that dispositive? Not by any means but I don't think simply dismissing the fact that the team with the most knowledge of Okposo's value chose to sit it out.

 

I also think people are missing my point. Until we have a track record of winning, we are not as desirable a destination as people may think based on our potential. As a result we must pay a premium for FA s to come here.

We paid ROR because the Avs wouldn't, did we overpay?

 

Show me a team that doesn't pay a premium for UFAs. UFAs by nature demand a premium

Edited August 20, 2016 by LGR4GM

[DirtDart]

/perspective

 

 

You are drastically undervaluing Okposo and drastically underestimating the level of interest he had around the league. It's like you *want* to believe we can't get big names. He was the TOP free agent, a solidly first line level scorer, and if we didn't pay him what we did, someone would have.

 

Okposo coming to Buffalo damn sure means more than Vesey not.

 

After a few beers, sure.

I agree Thorny. I fell much better having a proven free agent in Okposo. Jimmy's loss.....

[3putt]

We paid ROR because the Avs wouldn't, did we overpay?

You're leaving out amounts. They wouldn't pay what we did. Did they offer market value? We don't know. We paid what ROR wanted that is not he same as market value.

[LGR4GM]

You're leaving out amounts. They wouldn't pay what we did. Did they offer market value? We don't know. We paid what ROR wanted that is not he same as market value.

What is ROR worth right now on the open market? Take a guess.

 

Also in your scenario, GMTM just gives ROR what he asked for, no negotiations. That's laughable.

[WildCard]

What is ROR worth right now on the open market? Take a guess.

$8M+

[dudacek]

You didn't even bother to address why his team didn't even negotiate. Nice little self righteous indignation you've built for yourself.

No one except Garth Snow knows. My opinion from what's been reported is Okposo wanted to move on, and Snow knew it. I expressed my perception of your argument. Can you better demonstrate why Buffalo overpaid for Okposo?

 

Or perhaps a better question is what evidence is there that Buffalo has a harder time signing free agents than other NHL teams? On the surface it appears to me that under the Murray era it has done a better job than most teams at signing them.

 

I mean, signing a UFA almost by definition means you've overpaid. If Okposo defines overpaid:

Montreal? Overpaid for Subban, overpaid for Radulov, overpaid for Markov, overpaid for Petry.

Boston? Got Krecji to re-sign at market value. Got Bergeron for a steal. Overpaid for Backes. Overpaid for Hayes. Couldn't re-sign Erickson

Toronto? Hasn't signed anyone of note.

 

The league has 30 teams. How many are doing a better job of attracting free agents than Buffalo?

Edited August 20, 2016 by dudacek

[3putt]

What is ROR worth right now on the open market? Take a guess.

Also in your scenario, GMTM just gives ROR what he asked for, no negotiations. That's laughable.

It really isn't. At the time of the trade TM said he would be signed, essentially giving ROR the upper hand. I think he would be 6.5 to 7 over 7 on the open market. But I also don't think his contract would have the structure it currently has, I.e bonus based and essentially untraceable.

[dudacek]

It really isn't. At the time of the trade TM said he would be signed, essentially giving ROR the upper hand. I think he would be 6.5 to 7 over 7 on the open market. But I also don't think his contract would have the structure it currently has, I.e bonus based and essentially untraceable.

25-year-old first-line centres don't get to UFA very often, so there aren't a lot of comparables.

In a world where Bobby Ryan gets $7.2 million not to hit the open market and a 32-year-old David Backes gets $6 million,I would be shocked to see ROR getting less than $7 million.

Edited August 20, 2016 by dudacek

[Thorner]

That cuts both ways. Maybe Ladd is better than you wish to believe and Okposo is not. The fact remains the Isles felt Okposo was replaceable for a lot less than he was asking. And before you retort to it is the Isles, remember they were in the playoffs and we weren't. Is that dispositive? Not by any means but I don't think simply dismissing the fact that the team with the most knowledge of Okposo's value chose to sit it out.

I also think people are missing my point. Until we have a track record of winning, we are not as desirable a destination as people may think based on our potential. As a result we must pay a premium for FA s to come here.

Except it doesn't, because Ladd is objectively worse, and turning 31.