Vesey signs with Rangers; huge thread now moot

[wjag]

In 2-3 years Eichel and Matthews will be putting up similar point totals as they battle each other each year. Who will end up the better player when the dust clears in a decade... no idea, but for now Eichel is the better player until Matthews proves otherwise.

 

 

And both will be dwarfed by that kid in Edmonton 

[GoPre]

So maybe I'll have to figure out to get three front page ultimate insults from the Toronto newspapers for my avatar after we sign Vesey and Stamkos. :w00t:

 

 

Speaking of Avatars, pi2000 yours is causing me some discomfort at work!

 

Ha I have difficulty reading his posts w/ the avatar sitting right next to them. It's something you don't want to look at, but some how you just can't avoid it.  :sick:

[Sabel79]

And both will be dwarfed by that kid in Edmonton

 

Assuming his clavicles hold up...

[PotentPowerPlay22]

Risk? We gave up a 15 per cent opportunity to draft Corey Tropp.

You dream of getting a Jimmy Vesey level prospect with a third-rounder.

 

What seems to be overlooked here is how Tim Murray just bought himself some time.

He thinks he can sign him, obviously. He has some inside indication of that, almost certainly.

But he can't afford to wait around until August to find out for sure.

By that time Stamkos has already been signed and Nash has already been traded.

 

Vesey signs, all of a sudden it's a lot easier to let go of Tyler Ennis or Zemgus Girgensons in a trade.

All of a sudden you don't need to pay a premium for Jordan Eberle, or to rush Justin Bailey into the lineup.

All of sudden you feel a lot more comfortable drafting Chychrun over Nylander.

 

A good GM identifies the pieces he wants, he lays the groundwork and then goes out and gets them.

And if he whiffs, he tries again. Because champions aren't built without pushing the envelope.

The Darcy Regiers of the NHL sit on their hands and wait for value to pop lose in the bargain bin.

They win trades and collect assets while winners build teams.

 

Thank god we have a real GM.

It was never "but Buffalo" it was about having people in charge who expected nothing better.

 

Vesey was drafted in the third round. Is he no good?  Vesey will be available August 15 for free. If the Sabres are confident that they can sign him, then they should have waited and kept their pick. If they are not confident, then they wasted a good pick. 

 

Don't underestimate later picks. How about Henrik Zetterberg, Pavel Datsyuk, Brett Hull, Doug Gilmour, Henrik Lundqvist, Jamie Benn, etc. All were drafted later than round 4.

 

The argument that the Sabres could give away a 3rd since they had four reduces the odds of hitting on one of those picks. Four picks improves your odds over a lesser number of picks.

 

The argument that IF Vesey signs all these other possibilities are in play. Based on what is known, Vesey intends to wait until Aug 15. All your scenarios for trades and moves based on a "what if" become invalid. Stamkos is gone, Nash is traded, etc.  

 

Sure, a good GM identifies the pieces he wants, but it is foolish for a good GM to overpay when that player will be available for free in 7 weeks. 

 

I really hopes Vesey signs with the Sabres. I hope Murray succeeds. Time will tell.

[qwksndmonster]

By that logic, it'll be fine when Vesey doesn't sign and TM flips his rights for a 5th and drafts Hasek II with the pick.

[LGR4GM]

for every player that "makes it" after being drafted in the 3rd round or later, there are 10 players who don't. So while it is all nice and cute that ppl can toss out names like Zetterberg, what gets left out are the John Doe's numbering in the hundreds who were draft 3rd round or later and didn't do .

[Doctor of Philhousley]

Vesey was drafted in the third round. Is he no good?  Vesey will be available August 15 for free. If the Sabres are confident that they can sign him, then they should have waited and kept their pick. If they are not confident, then they wasted a good pick. 

This logic only works if no other team aggressively trades for a 22 year old kid and convinces him in two months that it would be a better decision for him to sign with their team. The kid could also intend to sign with you in July and change his mind in August. 

[Eleven]

This logic only works if no other team aggressively trades for a 22 year old kid and convinces him in two months that it would be a better decision for him to sign with their team. The kid could also intend to sign with you in July and change his mind in August. 

 

I'm not sure I understand this part.

[Doctor of Philhousley]

I'm not sure I understand this part.

The previous poster stated "If the Sabres are confident that they can sign him, then they should have waited and kept their pick." They keep the pick sure, but even if you have inside info from the agent that the player likes Buffalo, it does nothing to guarantee that he will not change his mind as a free agent in August. Locking him up now at a cost of a third round pick seems a prudent strategy. Bird in hand is worth two in the bush if you will.

[Eleven]

The previous poster stated "If the Sabres are confident that they can sign him, then they should have waited and kept their pick." They keep the pick sure, but even if you have inside info from the agent that the player likes Buffalo, it does nothing to guarantee that he will not change his mind as a free agent in August. Locking him up now at a cost of a third round pick seems a prudent strategy. Bird in hand is worth two in the bush if you will.

 

 

Gotcha.  Well, they wouldn't have been able to talk to him or his agents in July anyway without this trade.

 

I still think it's going to come to nothing unless Eichel can convince him to personally visit Buffalo.

[Crusader1969]

Gotcha.  Well, they wouldn't have been able to talk to him or his agents in July anyway without this trade.

 

I still think it's going to come to nothing unless Eichel can convince him to personally visit Buffalo.

 

the whole thing is based around Eichel. without him the trade doesnt happen. Do you think that Eichel and Vesey have already had a conversation? Im assuming they have. 

[ct fab]

Simple Math:  15% of 3rd rounders play 50+ games in the NHL; 99% chance Vesey plays 50+ games in the NHL; thus if, because of this trade, there's a 16% or better chance he signs with the Sabres, it's a risk worth taking.  I think it clearly is

[Thorner]

Gotcha.  Well, they wouldn't have been able to talk to him or his agents in July anyway without this trade.

 

I still think it's going to come to nothing unless Eichel can convince him to personally visit Buffalo.

And even now, they can talk with him. Just no contract until July. It does put a wrench into what to expect this draft, in terms of what to hope for, for trades. Added uncertainty.

[K-9]

Vesey was drafted in the third round. Is he no good?  Vesey will be available August 15 for free. If the Sabres are confident that they can sign him, then they should have waited and kept their pick. If they are not confident, then they wasted a good pick. 

 

Don't underestimate later picks. How about Henrik Zetterberg, Pavel Datsyuk, Brett Hull, Doug Gilmour, Henrik Lundqvist, Jamie Benn, etc. All were drafted later than round 4.

 

The argument that the Sabres could give away a 3rd since they had four reduces the odds of hitting on one of those picks. Four picks improves your odds over a lesser number of picks.

 

The argument that IF Vesey signs all these other possibilities are in play. Based on what is known, Vesey intends to wait until Aug 15. All your scenarios for trades and moves based on a "what if" become invalid. Stamkos is gone, Nash is traded, etc.  

 

Sure, a good GM identifies the pieces he wants, but it is foolish for a good GM to overpay when that player will be available for free in 7 weeks. 

 

I really hopes Vesey signs with the Sabres. I hope Murray succeeds. Time will tell.

I love how exceptions are used to explain the rule. 

 

The Sabres took a calculated risk, nothing more. One well worth it considering Vesey is a far cry from the third round pick he was originally and if the Sabres sign him, his value dwarfs that of the 76th overall pick they gave up for the chance. 

 

There is extremely little downside to the Sabres with this trade. Virtually none, actually. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

[pi2000]

the whole thing is based around Eichel. without him the trade doesnt happen. Do you think that Eichel and Vesey have already had a conversation? Im assuming they have. 

 

There is no rule preventing GMTM from asking Eichel about Vesey's intentions.   If Eichel and Vesey are as tight as everybody says they are, there's is no chance the haven't had a long talk about playing together in Buffalo.    All it takes is GMTM asking Eichel for his thoughts on the matter.    GMTM can't talk to Vesey directly (well, now he can), but I can't imagine him trading a pick without at least consulting with Eichel about Vesey's intentions.

 

Eichel probably told GMTM something like... "We really enjoy playing together and working out together.   He likes what we're building in Buffalo."    It makes sense in that case for Murray to spend a pick to get his offer on the table before any other team can change his mind.

 

All this stuff about his agent saying he still intends to see this through to Aug 15th, is just what he's supposed to say.    How would it sound if he came out and said, that he wanted to go to Buffalo all along and he'll sign July 1st... you can bet there would be some internal investigation into tampering.     They need to play it coy, and they're doing just that.

Edited June 21, 2016 by pi2000

[Radar]

I love how exceptions are used to explain the rule. 

 

The Sabres took a calculated risk, nothing more. One well worth it considering Vesey is a far cry from the third round pick he was originally and if the Sabres sign him, his value dwarfs that of the 76th overall pick they gave up for the chance. 

 

There is extremely little downside to the Sabres with this trade. Virtually none, actually. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

Thank you. I'm not at all sure he will sign with us but I would definitely paid what we did to be able to at least try to. For those say I g wait until August and it costs nothing well that is a bigger gamble and the third round pick is as long a shot than signing him is.

[K-9]

Thank you. I'm not at all sure he will sign with us but I would definitely paid what we did to be able to at least try to. For those say I g wait until August and it costs nothing well that is a bigger gamble and the third round pick is as long a shot than signing him is.

Actually, I'd say the odds of us signing him are better than a third round pick panning out. Murray said a 3rd rounder has a 10% - 30% of making it; I think our odds of signing Vesey are at worst 50/50.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[ct fab]

If TOR or BOS would have send a 3rd for Vesey rights we'd all be pissed.  His agent just said Buffalo has been on his short list all along = good.  Also said after what they went through with NAS, why wouldn't they wait til 8/15 = bad or postering

[Brawndo]

John Wawrow

 

Jimmy Vesey's agent tells AP that #Sabres are on his client's "shortlist." However ...

 

Vesey's agent says it would be "silly" for his client not to pursue free agency after what he went though in Nashville. ...

 

That said, Vesey's agent tells AP that he intends to meet with #Sabres at draft this weekend, and have talks leading up to Aug. 15.

[pi2000]

John Wawrow

 

Jimmy Vesey's agent tells AP that #Sabres are on his client's "shortlist." However ...

 

Vesey's agent says it would be "silly" for his client not to pursue free agency after what he went though in Nashville. ...

 

That said, Vesey's agent tells AP that he intends to meet with #Sabres at draft this weekend, and have talks leading up to Aug. 15.

 

That's good, I think?   

 

But what would these "talks" entail?   He can only get max ELC, nothing more, and that's what they would offer, and spot in top 6 they already know that.   Where else is there to discuss?   Will he get to play with Eichel?   Power Play time?  etc? bonuses?   There's not much left to discuss.

[3putt]

It comes down to where.  Any team can afford a max elc.  If the fit is right he signs with that team.  Anaheim, LA, Chicago SJ would welcome him with open arms.  The kid can pick where, that's what the rules allow.  My fingers are crossed its us, but no guarantee, now or in August.  Sending a 3rd round pick for his rights is a strong message that we want him, but so does every other gm.  

[SarasotaSabre]

Embarrassed to ask, but how credible is Buccigross?

 

think of him as the Barry Melrose of ESPN w/out the mullet and pimp suits

[DeleteThisAccount]

Link to latest version of AP Story:

 

http://www.bigstory.ap.org/article/2cbbe0df210744d0a30ad1a9e2302277/agent-sabres-veseys-shortlist-free-agency-likely

 

jw

[Hoss]

Link to latest version of AP Story:

 

http://www.bigstory.ap.org/article/2cbbe0df210744d0a30ad1a9e2302277/agent-sabres-veseys-shortlist-free-agency-likely

 

jw

Good stuff here. Vesey's agent says they'll meet Buffalo at the draft and will have talks leading up to August 15th. Wouldn't rule out signing in Buffalo and said they're on his shortlist.

Does say he thinks it'd be silly not to stay the course and go to free agencyz

[Kruppstahl]

That's good, I think?   

 

But what would these "talks" entail?   He can only get max ELC, nothing more, and that's what they would offer, and spot in top 6 they already know that.   Where else is there to discuss?   Will he get to play with Eichel?   Power Play time?  etc? bonuses?   There's not much left to discuss.

He can also get an additional $2.85 million in performance bonuses in addition to 10% signing bonus.