OT: Publicly Funded Sports Stadiums

[Stoner]

Are emojis and emoticons the same? Emoticons have been around forever; only recently have we heard about emojis. What do you call these things ---> ;-(-

[JJFIVEOH]

Ancient?

[LGR4GM]

We never have the full information when we vote on anything else, either.

 

 

Would you believe that I never have used an emoji on this board?

True.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Erie County Public Library has a 27million dollar operating budget for 2016. 400million dollars in Public Money could fund that library system for roughly 12 years if you include a small % increase each year. So if the Bills wanted 400million in tax money for a 8 day a year football stadium when you could spend the same amount over 12 years on something more people use and actually does have an impact on the community, well that simply seems like stupidity. Sports aren't life, they are entertainment. 

[Drunkard]

True.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Erie County Public Library has a 27million dollar operating budget for 2016. 400million dollars in Public Money could fund that library system for roughly 12 years if you include a small % increase each year. So if the Bills wanted 400million in tax money for a 8 day a year football stadium when you could spend the same amount over 12 years on something more people use and actually does have an impact on the community, well that simply seems like stupidity. Sports aren't life, they are entertainment. 

 

I get the point of your argument but public libraries are probably not the best example. Thanks to the internet libraries are quickly becoming less and less important. Who needs a giant building full of books when you have access to basically all the information you need in a device that fits in your pocket and now technology is moving towards things like e-readers, nooks, or whatever they call them? About the only thing libraries are really needed for now is for providing computers for people who can't afford them to access the internet. That and renting old movies for free to the same people who can't afford internet access or Netflix. I haven't set foot in a library in over 10 years. I think the last time I was in a library was during my undergrad studies and I believe I went there twice to meet a study group and I never checked out a single book. I think the last book I checked out was in high school and it was required because I was taking an elective called Library Science.

[Eleven]

I get the point of your argument but public libraries are probably not the best example. Thanks to the internet libraries are quickly becoming less and less important. Who needs a giant building full of books when you have access to basically all the information you need in a device that fits in your pocket and now technology is moving towards things like e-readers, nooks, or whatever they call them? About the only thing libraries are really needed for now is for providing computers for people who can't afford them to access the internet. That and renting old movies for free to the same people who can't afford internet access or Netflix. I haven't set foot in a library in over 10 years. I think the last time I was in a library was during my undergrad studies and I believe I went there twice to meet a study group and I never checked out a single book. I think the last book I checked out was in high school and it was required because I was taking an elective called Library Science.

 

 

Don't go down this road...

[LGR4GM]

I get the point of your argument but public libraries are probably not the best example. Thanks to the internet libraries are quickly becoming less and less important. Who needs a giant building full of books when you have access to basically all the information you need in a device that fits in your pocket and now technology is moving towards things like e-readers, nooks, or whatever they call them? About the only thing libraries are really needed for now is for providing computers for people who can't afford them to access the internet. That and renting old movies for free to the same people who can't afford internet access or Netflix. I haven't set foot in a library in over 10 years. I think the last time I was in a library was during my undergrad studies and I believe I went there twice to meet a study group and I never checked out a single book. I think the last book I checked out was in high school and it was required because I was taking an elective called Library Science.

Libraries are about access to resources, not just books. While you somewhat acknowledge this you fail to acknowledge the large portion of the poor who do not have reliable internet access, the after school and reading programs public libraries offer, or the myriad of technologies they offer to people who wouldn't have access, that technology by the way comes with free training for anyone who walks in the door. Also you assume that all information is available freely via the internet which completely dismisses the millions of dollars spent each year by libraries to provide online access to content that would otherwise sit behind a paywall.  I bet as an undergraduate you had to write a research paper, maybe even many of them. Anytime you used a journal article or an online resource chances are your irrelevant library was paying for that and supporting your use of them via training and making sure you had simple access. Libraries aren't book repositories and this has been true for the better part of the last 20 years, especially college libraries. If you went to the University at Buffalo they are tier 1 research institute so I would guess their library is spending around 9-11million per year on those "buildings full of books" which are actually the hundred thousand dollar a year databases that you probably used a lot. That number by the way is just on the collection, that isn't to pay for staffing, maintenance, electricity, health coverage etc... for the buildings and employees, that is just for buying new print materials and more important maintaining the electronic materials. 

 

Point being, Libraries and other public institutions such as museums are more important for the community than the 8 day a year Buffalo Bills or the 41 day a year Sabres will be. 

 

Let's change the example to a new aquarium. A new aquarium costs 300million to build and another 100million to get up and running. That provides a year round attraction to Buffalo. Or you can invest the same amount of money in a stadium where 70% of the users already live in Buffalo which means they are not impacting the economy of the area because they are spending money there anyway. 

Don't go down this road...

To GD late. 

Edited June 9, 2016 by LGR4GM

[That Aud Smell]

Oy. Do we need an OT - All About Libraries thread?
 

The role of the public library is changing, sure. But it's never been more vital. There's a reason that ancient Greeks considered the library a cornerstone of their democracy.

[Drunkard]

Libraries are about access to resources, not just books. While you somewhat acknowledge this you fail to acknowledge the large portion of the poor who do not have reliable internet access, the after school and reading programs public libraries offer, or the myriad of technologies they offer to people who wouldn't have access, that technology by the way comes with free training for anyone who walks in the door. Also you assume that all information is available freely via the internet which completely dismisses the millions of dollars spent each year by libraries to provide online access to content that would otherwise sit behind a paywall.  I bet as an undergraduate you had to write a research paper, maybe even many of them. Anytime you used a journal article or an online resource chances are your irrelevant library was paying for that and supporting your use of them via training and making sure you had simple access. Libraries aren't book repositories and this has been true for the better part of the last 20 years, especially college libraries. If you went to the University at Buffalo they are tier 1 research institute so I would guess their library is spending around 9-11million per year on those "buildings full of books" which are actually the hundred thousand dollar a year databases that you probably used a lot. That number by the way is just on the collection, that isn't to pay for staffing, maintenance, electricity, health coverage etc... for the buildings and employees, that is just for buying new print materials and more important maintaining the electronic materials. 

 

Point being, Libraries and other public institutions such as museums are more important for the community than the 8 day a year Buffalo Bills or the 41 day a year Sabres will be. 

 

Let's change the example to a new aquarium. A new aquarium costs 300million to build and another 100million to get up and running. That provides a year round attraction to Buffalo. Or you can invest the same amount of money in a stadium where 70% of the users already live in Buffalo which means they are not impacting the economy of the area because they are spending money there anyway. 

To GD late. 

 

Ok. So digitalize the bulk of it (besides maybe the children's sections) and make them public computer labs so they can pump more of the money into the technology end, digital content, and training and eliminate the walls and walls of book shelves that have to be reshelved, dusted, vacuumed, and mopped rather than spending the money to keep up fancy old relics, newspapers that feed into those giant bamboo flagpole type things, and copies of Ernest Saves Christmas, Ernest Goes to Jail, and the animated version of the Hobbit (half of this is kind of tongue in cheek since I haven't been in a library in forever so I'm going off memory).

 

I'm definitely not passing around a collection plate for the poor billionaire owners of major sports franchises either but having a team also puts dozens of millionaires into the area who buy houses, cars, frequent stores and restaurants, employ landscapers, chefs, lawyers, and accountants, and pay high levels of income and property tax, not to mention the charity work many of them do. I don't like the idea of John Q. Taxpayer having to foot the bill for these over extravagant coliseums either but they do provide some economic benefit, even if the money would be better spent elsewhere.

 

Maybe they should spend the money just fixing the entire internet infrastructure so everyone could have a lightning fast fiber optic connection at dirt cheap prices. I'm sure the people at Comcast, Fios, Time Warner, Charter, and whomever would still find a way to either screw it up or price gouge the public anyway though.

[LGR4GM]

Ok. So digitalize the bulk of it (besides maybe the children's sections) and make them public computer labs so they can pump more of the money into the technology end, digital content, and training and eliminate the walls and walls of book shelves that have to be reshelved, dusted, vacuumed, and mopped rather than spending the money to keep up fancy old relics, newspapers that feed into those giant bamboo flagpole type things, and copies of Ernest Saves Christmas, Ernest Goes to Jail, and the animated version of the Hobbit (half of this is kind of tongue in cheek since I haven't been in a library in forever so I'm going off memory).

 

Do you have any idea how much time and energy it would take to digitize all of it? Google has spent a ton of money partnering with libraries to digitize just items in the public domain. That does not take into account copyright laws either. Add on to that maintaining the collection, that stuff has to be backed up on a server and also archived in some way in case that server crashes.

 

The bulk of the money now goes into digital content. I'd bet money without even looking that the ECPL has a system to electronically check out books to your favorite e-reader.

 

At this point I am playing both devil's advocate and also library's advocate. 

Edited June 9, 2016 by LGR4GM

[Eleven]

[That Aud Smell]

So great.

Check out Seinfeld barely restraining laughter throughout the scene (and no doubt its multiple shoots).

[Drunkard]

Do you have any idea how much time and energy it would take to digitize all of it? Google has spent a ton of money partnering with libraries to digitize just items in the public domain. That does not take into account copyright laws either. Add on to that maintaining the collection, that stuff has to be backed up on a server and also archived in some way in case that server crashes.

 

The bulk of the money now goes into digital content. I'd bet money without even looking that the ECPL has a system to electronically check out books to your favorite e-reader.

 

At this point I am playing both devil's advocate and also library's advocate. 

 

Same here, just the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

Copyright, scmopyright. They don't need no stinking copyrights. Put them old blue haired librarians with their glasses and their condescending looks on salary and make them work overtime scanning each book by hand into pdf files until every server is full. If they don't play ball threaten to take their cats (they all have cats) to a farm upstate. Then they can have a bonfire with all the old hard backs and paperbacks, periodicals, and all those SHHHH quiet please signs. It'll be glorious and it'll help keep the homeless warm.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Drunkard

[MattPie]

Do you have any idea how much time and energy it would take to digitize all of it? Google has spent a ton of money partnering with libraries to digitize just items in the public domain. That does not take into account copyright laws either. Add on to that maintaining the collection, that stuff has to be backed up on a server and also archived in some way in case that server crashes.

 

The bulk of the money now goes into digital content. I'd bet money without even looking that the ECPL has a system to electronically check out books to your favorite e-reader.

 

At this point I am playing both devil's advocate and also library's advocate. 

 

Chester County PA does, I'd be surprised if Erie County doesn't.

 

Same here, just the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

Copyright, scmopyright. They don't need to stinking copyrights. Put them old blue haired librarians with their glasses and their condescending looks on salary and make them work overtime scanning each book by hand into pdf files until every server is full. If they don't play ball threaten to take their cats (they all have cats) to a farm upstate. Then they can have a bonfire with all the old hard backs and paperbacks, periodicals, and all those SHHHH quiet please signs. It'll be glorious and it'll help keep the homeless warm.

 

I don't want to be a jerk, but, you have no idea what goes into digital archiving based on this paragraph.

[Drunkard]

Chester County PA does, I'd be surprised if Erie County doesn't.

 

 

I don't want to be a jerk, but, you have no idea what goes into digital archiving based on this paragraph.

 

I really don't know, nor do I care to, but I was joking around anyway so it doesn't matter. I would assume it's more complicated than scanning a document into a pdf and saving it to a hard drive though. 

[LGR4GM]

Anyways, to veer back to the original topic, wonder what the Bills will be doing in 5 years when they decide to build a new stadium.

[Eleven]

Anyways, to veer back to the original topic, wonder what the Bills will be doing in 5 years when they decide to build a new stadium.

 

 

They'll be somewhere between 7-9 and 9-7.

[Drunkard]

They'll be somewhere between 7-9 and 9-7.

The playoff drought will be old enough to drink finally.

[ubkev]

They'll be somewhere between 7-9 and 9-7.

Yep...

[Eleven]

Anyways, to veer back to the original topic, wonder what the Bills will be doing in 5 years when they decide to build a new stadium.

 

 

To answer your question seriously, I think there will be a mix of state, county (which one?) and private funding.  And some of that private funding may come from outside the Pegula empire; there has been talk of Delaware North getting involved.

[Taro T]

They'll be somewhere between 7-9 and 9-7.

Long winded way to say 8-8 unless you're expecting one of those mythical ties. :p

[SwampD]

As some who believes that Orwell just got the date wrong, no way do I want everything only digitized.

[Eleven]

As some who believes that Orwell just got the date wrong, no way do I want everything only digitized.

 

This is why I love you.  Can we hug?

[TrueBlueGED]

To answer your question seriously, I think there will be a mix of state, county (which one?) and private funding.  And some of that private funding may come from outside the Pegula empire; there has been talk of Delaware North getting involved.

 

Isn't the NFL pretty dead-set against non-owner private money being used for new stadium construction? I could've sworn I read something to that effect.

[Neo]

As some who believes that Orwell just got the date wrong, no way do I want everything only digitized.

I believe he just got the date wrong.