GDT: Columbus @ Buffalo, 7:00 pm est, 4-8-2016

[JJFIVEOH]

Do you really want to compare Henrik's career year to Johnson's?

 

If you can't figure out the basis for the comparison, then I can't help you. 

[dudacek]

• That was like a game from the early '90s. There were times when we went Globetrotters on them in their zone but their goals all came from shooters who had a ton of open ice.

Jack had a real pond hockey game going, with all the good and bad that implies.

How come no one is talking about how when Bogo goes down and the D falls apart? :P

That was one of the dumbest injuries I've ever seen. What the hell was he thinking?

Schneider showed some hockey sense, but he was one of the most awkward skaters I've seen in a long time. Couldn't find open ice to save his life. Hope you enjoyed your game kid.

Rodrigues always had his feet moving. I could see him with a future on a Bylsma team.

Chad deserved his honour. He was just as good as Lehner this year and over a longer stretch.

Only one negative post about Kasdorf in the whole thread? I'm proud of you guys.

We will probably never see Colaiacovo in a Sabres jersey again.

And can somebody send Callaway some bunnies or something? I'm worried about that guy.

Edited April 9, 2016 by dudacek

[WildCard]

If you can't figure out the basis for the comparison, then I can't help you. 

This is Johnson's career year, you've repeatedly compared his numbers to Vezina winners. I didn't bring up Henrik

 

Your basis of comparison is a backup who's played 18 games in the AHL to a goalie who's been the starter all but 20 games this season and has played 45 games. I don't see how anyone can figure out that comparison

If you're basing a stat on a stretch of games, you don't take away a chunk in between. I took away the first month because of the simple fact that Johnson missed the end of last season and was injured. Wildcard and Blue didn't like that so I said let's go with the entire year and dismiss my stat altogether. NHL requires (I think) 25 games to be considered stat-worthy. Blue of all people should know this....... you know, sample size. In that case he is 13th out of 44. 

 

There's a reason Scott Wedgewood isn't being considered for the Vezina. 

I've taken, on multiple occasions, his career stats and his stats for this entire year, both in a conventional sense and in advanced stats. I've proven every single way that Chad Johnson is an average goalie. I'm not saying you can't win with an average goalie, indeed I've said the opposite. I am saying that I would prefer him to not be the starter for a serious Cup run

Edited April 9, 2016 by WildCard

[JJFIVEOH]

This is Johnson's career year, you've repeatedly compared his numbers to Vezina winners. I didn't bring up Henrik

 

I brought up Lundqvist because he's not being considered for the Vezina either........... just like you said Johnson isn't. Hence the similarity of a ridiculous stat. 

 

Johnson is currently in the mix with other past Vezina winners in terms of save percentage. Funny, this is his "career year" yet his save percentage is only .003 higher than his career numbers. I guess that means he's a pretty consistent and reliable goaltender. 

[TrueBlueGED]

 

• That was like a game from the early '90s. There were times when we went Globetrotters on them in their zone but their goals all came from shooters who had a ton of open ice.
• Jack had a real pond hockey game going, with all the good and bad that implies.
• How come no one is talking about how when Bogo goes down and the D falls apart? :P
• That was one of the dumbest injuries I've ever seen. What the hell was he thinking?
• Schneider showed some hockey sense, but he was one of the most awkward skaters I've seen in a long time. Couldn't find open ice to save his life. Hope you enjoyed your game kid.
• Rodrigues always had his feet moving. I could see him with a future on a Bylsma team.
• Chad deserved his honour. He was just as good as Lehner this year and over a longer stretch.
• Only one negative post about Kasdorf in the whole thread? I'm proud of you guys.
• We will probably never see Colaiacovo in a Sabres jersey again.
• And can somebody send Callaway some bunnies or something? I'm worried about that guy.

 

 

You're right, Bogo is better than an empty defensive slot. Congratulations! :p ;)

 

I really liked Rodrigues tonight. If nothing else, his speed was noticeable. I want to see more, hope he gets to play tomorrow.

[WildCard]

I brought up Lundqvist because he's not being considered for the Vezina either........... just like you said Johnson isn't. Hence the similarity of a ridiculous stat. 

 

Johnson is currently in the mix with other past Vezina winners in terms of save percentage. Funny, this is his "career year" yet his save percentage is only .003 higher than his career numbers. I guess that means he's a pretty consistent and reliable goaltender. 

So what you're saying is, Vezina trophies don't mean anything?

 

Do you really want to rehash this? I've legitimately given every stat imaginable 

Edited April 9, 2016 by WildCard

[JJFIVEOH]

You win. 

[TrueBlueGED]

I brought up Lundqvist because he's not being considered for the Vezina either........... just like you said Johnson isn't. Hence the similarity of a ridiculous stat. 

 

Johnson is currently in the mix with other past Vezina winners in terms of save percentage. Funny, this is his "career year" yet his save percentage is only .003 higher than his career numbers. I guess that means he's a pretty consistent and reliable goaltender. 

 

I'm not about to run the numbers for Johnson and all other regular starters for years, but just eyeballing it, his variance looks really high. He's never had two consecutive years within 2 points of one another. "Consistent" is a label I wouldn't put anywhere near him. He's had a nice year, but let's not get carried away.

[WildCard]

I'm not about to run the numbers for Johnson and all other regular starters for years, but just eyeballing it, his variance looks really high. He's never had two consecutive years within 2 points of one another. "Consistent" is a label I wouldn't put anywhere near him. He's had a nice year, but let's not get carried away.

Don't bother, I've run the numbers.

You win. 

You brought forward a statement, I refuted it multiple times, and I get sarcasm. I've been wrong on here a lot, a ton of times, I have no issue when someone proves me wrong. I don't get why that's an issue here or in reality. The point of a healthy debate is to learn from it. True was right with ROR, I advocated Drouin > MacKinnon when the draft happened, I thought Marcus < Des, and was huge into Mantha; pretty clearly wrong on all fronts, but I appreciate the debates I had that let me realize it

Edited April 9, 2016 by WildCard

[JJFIVEOH]

I'm not about to run the numbers for Johnson and all other regular starters for years, but just eyeballing it, his variance looks really high. He's never had two consecutive years within 2 points of one another. "Consistent" is a label I wouldn't put anywhere near him. He's had a nice year, but let's not get carried away.

 

All 3 years of them? 

[SarasotaSabre]

But you're okay with cutting the dates for the purpose of making someone look better? That doesn't make any sense.

 

 

 

I'm going to assume that part of getting Kasdorf to sign was that he'd get a start at some point.

If true, all the more reason to start him tomorrow at a roadie instead of the home finale (disguised as Fan Asphixiation night)

[WildCard]

Johnson's QS%:

 

.750, .652, .412, .575. Pretty inconsistent IMO 

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/j/johnsch02.html

[TrueBlueGED]

All 3 years of them? 

 

I won't lie, I didn't pay any attention to games played his first 3 years :lol:

 

Still, he's gone .925-.889-.920. I'd like to re-sign him for a year or two, but I wouldn't be surprised a-tall if he tanked next season.

[JJFIVEOH]

What I think the Sabres should do, considering next year might possibly be a year they could contend for a playoff spot, is to go with the college kid with one game experience, the Swede that can't win a game in the minors, the headcase that can't stay healthy for 15 games, and the one that sees double. After all, Johnson is just average, with a winning record on a non-playoff team, pushing 30. We all know what happens to goaltenders once they hit 30. They start going downhill, ain't the right Lou? 

[WildCard]

What I think the Sabres should do, considering next year might possibly be a year they could contend for a playoff spot, is to go with the college kid with one game experience, the Swede that can't win a game in the minors, the headcase that can't stay healthy for 15 games, and the one that sees double. After all, Johnson is just average, with a winning record on a non-playoff team, pushing 30. We all know what happens to goaltenders once they hit 30. They start going downhill, ain't the right Lou? 

Sure, introduce you're own Straw Man, that'll work

[JJFIVEOH]

Sure, introduce you're own Straw Man, that'll work

 

I'm really not sure what else you're trying to argue for. 

[LGR4GM]

Reinhart made espn top 10

[WildCard]

I'm really not sure what else you're trying to argue for. 

Look up what a Straw Man argument is

[JJFIVEOH]

Look up what a Straw Man argument is

 

Don't patronize me, I know damn well what a straw man argument is. It still doesn't negate the fact you're arguing for the sake of arguing. You didn't like the fact that I omitted the month of October. So I put it back and here you are, arguing with no point in sight. 

 

Get back to me when you have one, you're become repetitive. 

[WildCard]

Don't patronize me, I know damn well what a straw man argument is. It still doesn't negate the fact you're arguing for the sake of arguing. You didn't like the fact that I omitted the month of October. So I put it back and here you are, arguing with no point in sight. 

 

Get back to me when you have one, you're become repetitive. 

Nice JJ, real nice. Sorry when I responded to your claim that 'I don't know what you're arguing' I tried to explain it; I'm not patronizing you. Others brought it up on here and I had to look it up. I've never once said we should go into next season with Ullmkar and Kasdorf as our 1-2. In fact, nobody has. You built that argument up yourself, and tried making it look absurd, when of course it is, because nobody advocated it

 

Repetitive, really? This is rich

Edited April 9, 2016 by WildCard

[dudacek]

What I like best about Johnson is how he managed to outplay his talent level for 40 games this year.

 

There's been some interesting statements made about injuries lately on here.

I think in most instances "injury-prone" is caused by nothing more than freak circumstances.

 

In Bogo's case, when it has happened for six consecutive seasons, there has to be a reason: reckless play, or fragile bones or something.

 

But is it fair to call Lehner injury-prone after essentially suffering two unrelated albeit serious injuries in one calendar year?

And are people dismissing him as our goalie of the future because of this year's injuries, or this year's play?

Edited April 9, 2016 by dudacek

[WildCard]

What I like best about Johnson is how he managed to outplay his talent level for 40 games this year.

 

There's been some interesting statements made about injuries lately on here.

I think in most instances "injury-prone" is caused by nothing more than freak circumstances.

 

In Bogo's case, when it has happened for six consecutive seasons, there has to be a reason: reckless play, or fragile bones or something.

 

But is it fair to call Lehner injury-prone after essentially suffering two unrelated albeit serious injuries in one calendar year?

And are people dismissing him as our goalie of the future because of this year's injuries, or this year's play?

I like having Johnson for awhile longer. I dismiss Lehner and have jumped into the Bogo Bunker because of injuries

[JJFIVEOH]

What I like best about Johnson is how he managed to outplay his talent level for 40 games this year.

 

There's been some interesting statements made about injuries lately on here.

I think in most instances "injury-prone" is caused by nothing more than freak circumstances.

 

In Bogo's case, when it has happened for six consecutive seasons, there has to be a reason: reckless play, or fragile bones or something.

But is it fair to call Lehner injury-prone after essentially suffering two unrelated albeit serious injuries in one calendar year?

And are people dismissing him as our goalie of the future because of this year's injuries, or this year's play?

 

No, I don't think it's fair to label Lehner as injury prone yet. I like Lehner, a lot. I like his attitude and the image he brings to the ice.

 

At this point though I don't think it's worth the risk to find out if he's injury prone or not. Teams that rely solely on a high dollar goaltender put themselves at significant risk if he happens to get hurt. Teams that rely on a 1A and 1B........ or a starter that is willing to split duty 50-30+/- is the way to go. Lehner isn't going anywhere any time soon and I don't think he expects to play 60 games yet. Johnson this year has proven himself to be dependable starter. There is no reason he can't be signed (if he wants to be here of course) for 2-3 years and let him and Lehner split duty. If Lehner can stay healthy then he'll be the one going forward in a year or two. 

[JujuFish]

If you're basing a stat on a stretch of games, you don't take away a chunk in between. I took away the first month because of the simple fact that Johnson missed the end of last season and was injured. Wildcard and Blue didn't like that so I said let's go with the entire year and dismiss my stat altogether. NHL requires (I think) 25 games to be considered stat-worthy. Blue of all people should know this....... you know, sample size. In that case he is 13th out of 44. 

 

There's a reason Scott Wedgewood isn't being considered for the Vezina. 

 

To your first sentence: I was just correcting what you said.  "Let's take away November, he's still at .923".  No, taking away November, he's at .914.  Taking away everything from November and prior, he's .920.  .923 is nowhere to be found.

 

To your next point, he's 15th if you want a minimum of 25 games.

 

But let's make that 21 games, so we can include our own Lehner on the list.

 

With a minimum of 21 games played, Chad is 17th.  Lehner is 6th.

Edited April 9, 2016 by JujuFish

[TrueBlueGED]

What I like best about Johnson is how he managed to outplay his talent level for 40 games this year.

 

There's been some interesting statements made about injuries lately on here.

I think in most instances "injury-prone" is caused by nothing more than freak circumstances.

 

In Bogo's case, when it has happened for six consecutive seasons, there has to be a reason: reckless play, or fragile bones or something.

 

But is it fair to call Lehner injury-prone after essentially suffering two unrelated albeit serious injuries in one calendar year?

And are people dismissing him as our goalie of the future because of this year's injuries, or this year's play?

 

I definitely agree, but as you allude to, there's always exceptions. Once you hit 5-6-7 years I tend to shift from "bad luck" to "there's something going on here."

 

Since Kane and Bogo came up here and elsewhere, they haven't played a full season since they entered the league. Even if we dismiss the possibility they're just fragile for whatever reason and go to play style, which can theoretically be adjusted...if they cut back on the things that expose them to injury, that seriously curtails their value. If you take Kane's physicality and aggressive forecheck away from him, aren't you really just looking at a better skating Drew Stafford? Take Bogo's semi-craziness away, and you have...what, exactly? But knowing you're losing a key piece for 1/5-1/4 of each season is a tough pill to swallow. Availability matters.

 

With respect to Lehner, I think it's tough to escape the injury prone label when it hits at the beginning of a career. If he had 400 starts and had a two year run of injuries, I don't think many would point to it as anything other than bad luck. But as a young goaltender breaking into the league...something about never having a second chance to make a first impression. I think it'd be insane to write him off as injury prone, but I don't think it's crazy to raise an eyebrow at it.