3/29/2016 Sabres @ Penguins 7:00 PM on MSG

[WildCard]

You and I just look for entirely different things in defensemen.

I'm interested in hearing what you look for

I think his upsides far outweigh his downsides. Everybody wants the perfect defensemen, they don't exist. Twice as much is asked out of defensemen nowadays as opposed to 10-15 years ago, bad things will eventually happen over the course of a game for every D-man. Especially when they're put in position to be a 1/2 pairing facing off against the opposing team's best forwards. If I gave a + for every good thing each of our D-men did, and a - for each bad thing................. Bogo would be leading this team.

Not sure Bogo would be leading this team in your given metric. In fact, I fully oppose it

 

Perfect defenseman? Easy. Drew Doughty

[TrueBlueGED]

I'm interested in hearing what you look for

 

 

In a grand bit of SabreSpace irony, a bunch of stuff that isn't quantified (which is different from can't be quantified, since if I were running a team's analytics department I would most certainly track these things).

 

1) Quick, sound, decision making, especially under pressure. Most Dmen can survey the ice and make a quality choice if they have the requisite time to do so, but being able to do so on the fly when being pressured by a checker is a different matter entirely. It's something that's critical to performance in all three zones, both with and without the puck. 

 

2) Skating in tight areas. I don't need my defensemen to be able to fly up and down the ice at Karlsson-like speeds (although I wouldn't be upset if they could!), but I do need quality one and two step quickness with change of direction ability. Dmen spend a lot of time covering limited stretches of ice, be it offensively or defensively. As an added bonus, it can act as a great compensation tool for misreading plays or flubbing a bouncing puck or whatever. Neither here nor there, but I think one of the things that limits Gorges defensively are his shortcomings in this area.

 

3) Passing ability. Making the right decisions is all well and good, but if your exit/rush passes constantly end up in your teammates' skates or on the other team's sticks, it really doesn't matter.

 

I think possessing these qualities leads not only to effective transition play, but quality defensive play as well.

 

How Risto handled Crosby's forecheck towards the end of OT perfectly illustrated 1 & 2--heavy pressure from one of the best players in the world, and Risto doesn't panic and over stick handle, or fling it off the boards hoping for the best with a 50/50 chance Pittsburgh recovers it in the neutral zone...he calmly handles it and skates around and away from Crosby, who was fiercely trying to steal it away. My jaw dropped watching it. Perfect.

 

Other stuff matters of course (ability to win battles, keeping the crease clear, shooting ability), but if a player can't do 2/3 of the things I listed, I really don't want them anywhere near my top-4. Hence the Bogo Bunker, my desire to have Gorges on the 3rd pair, me not being as high on McCabe as many, and my high opinion of Pysyk (although he's really testing it this year).

[North Buffalo]

Yeah, no way they're taking a shootout against that lineup.

Agreed, Penns should have flipped 1st with their effort

In a grand bit of SabreSpace irony, a bunch of stuff that isn't quantified (which is different from can't be quantified, since if I were running a team's analytics department I would most certainly track these things).

 

1) Quick, sound, decision making, especially under pressure. Most Dmen can survey the ice and make a quality choice if they have the requisite time to do so, but being able to do so on the fly when being pressured by a checker is a different matter entirely. It's something that's critical to performance in all three zones, both with and without the puck.

 

2) Skating in tight areas. I don't need my defensemen to be able to fly up and down the ice at Karlsson-like speeds (although I wouldn't be upset if they could!), but I do need quality one and two step quickness with change of direction ability. Dmen spend a lot of time covering limited stretches of ice, be it offensively or defensively. As an added bonus, it can act as a great compensation tool for misreading plays or flubbing a bouncing puck or whatever. Neither here nor there, but I think one of the things that limits Gorges defensively are his shortcomings in this area.

 

3) Passing ability. Making the right decisions is all well and good, but if your exit/rush passes constantly end up in your teammates' skates or on the other team's sticks, it really doesn't matter.

 

I think possessing these qualities leads not only to effective transition play, but quality defensive play as well.

 

How Risto handled Crosby's forecheck towards the end of OT perfectly illustrated 1 & 2--heavy pressure from one of the best players in the world, and Risto doesn't panic and over stick handle, or fling it off the boards hoping for the best with a 50/50 chance Pittsburgh recovers it in the neutral zone...he calmly handles it and skates around and away from Crosby, who was fiercely trying to steal it away. My jaw dropped watching it. Perfect.

 

Other stuff matters of course (ability to win battles, keeping the crease clear, shooting ability), but if a player can't do 2/3 of the things I listed, I really don't want them anywhere near my top-4. Hence the Bogo Bunker, my desire to have Gorges on the 3rd pair, me not being as high on McCabe as many, and my high opinion of Pysyk (although he's really testing it this year).

And on those fronts Sabres new D has shown unperfect but remarkable poise! Maybe he doesnt know any better but wow Go Nelson.

Bogo is needed. His physicality is important and kids around him need to grow up

Edited March 30, 2016 by North Buffalo

[clintwestwood]

I think his upsides far outweigh his downsides. Everybody wants the perfect defensemen, they don't exist. Twice as much is asked out of defensemen nowadays as opposed to 10-15 years ago, bad things will eventually happen over the course of a game for every D-man. Especially when they're put in position to be a 1/2 pairing facing off against the opposing team's best forwards. If I gave a + for every good thing each of our D-men did, and a - for each bad thing................. Bogo would be leading this team. 

 

I'm interested in hearing what you look for

Not sure Bogo would be leading this team in your given metric. In fact, I fully oppose it

 

Perfect defenseman? Easy. Drew Doughty

 

Seconded for Doughty.

[Marvelo]

the Sabres have only scored 4 shootout goals all season.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Marvelo

[inkman]

the Sabres have only scored 4 shootout goals all season.

Bring back Kotalik!!

 

 

This concerns me not a bit.

[Stoner]

Was anyone else tempted in the 2nd intermission to look up the worst loss after being up 3-0? I had a strong feeling we were about to do something historic. Glad to see I was wrong.

A good trivia question would center around a certain Sabres-Bruins game at the Aud back in the day.

[LGR4GM]

I wonder if McDavid would have scored on that breakaway or that shoot out attempt?

Nah, he would have broke a bone in the 1st period.

[Beer]

Bring back Kotalik!!

 

 

This concerns me not a bit.

I think it would concern you if we were in the playoff hunt and these precious points meant facing  #4 seed vs. higher seed or gave a more favorable matchup.  The shootout is a skills competition.  Last I checked we have guys with  skills.  Therefore I find our success rate unacceptable.  How difficult would it be for DD to run a shootout drill at the end of every practice... bury it and go home, don't bury it and you go again.  Make it fun.  Encourage creativity.  It will also help improve our goalies for this situation too.  Lehner could use some SO practice.  He's terrible at it.

[deluca67]

Another point after trailing going into the 3rd. 

 

Hate seeing them give up the 3 goal lead. Pittsburgh is on fire at 9-1 over their last 10. It was good to see the Sabres shake off the 4 straight goals to tie it up. Little signs that team is heading in the right direction.  

[apuszczalowski]

Another point after trailing going into the 3rd. 

 

Hate seeing them give up the 3 goal lead. Pittsburgh is on fire at 9-1 over their last 10. It was good to see the Sabres shake off the 4 straight goals to tie it up. Little signs that team is heading in the right direction.

 

I wouldn't say getting a goal to tie the game after giving up 4 straight is a sign they are heading in the right direction, especially after blowing an early 3 goal lead.....

[deluca67]

I wouldn't say getting a goal to tie the game after giving up 4 straight is a sign they are heading in the right direction, especially after blowing an early 3 goal lead.....

Previous teams would have folded after giving up a three goal lead. This group didn't. It's just another sign in a growing list of signs. There's something different about this team, IMO. 

 

Also,

 

A three goal lead after one period while being out-shot 18-9, did anyone not expect a Pens comeback? 

[beerme1]

Previous teams would have folded after giving up a three goal lead. This group didn't. It's just another sign in a growing list of signs. There's something different about this team, IMO. 

 

Also,

 

A three goal lead after one period while being out-shot 18-9, did anyone not expect a Pens comeback? 

 

 

With a back up goalie who should never leave the crease or handle the puck. Against the hottest team in the league and on the road with a need for a bounce back game after a dismal performance the night before. There are many signs as you say. 

[Jsixspd]

Nah, he would have broke a bone in the 1st period.

LOL!!!!

[dudacek]

Previous teams would have folded after giving up a three goal lead. This group didn't. It's just another sign in a growing list of signs. There's something different about this team, IMO. 

 

 

Good stuff.

Anyone who hasn't seen this this season hasn't been paying attention.

 

I've been a Gorges defender because his battle and his defensive reads have mostly made up for his many flaws for most of this season despite the fact he's been playing out of his weight class all year.

In the past month the cracks are really starting to show.

[Taro T]

Previous teams would have folded after giving up a three goal lead. This group didn't. It's just another sign in a growing list of signs. There's something different about this team, IMO. 

 

Also,

 

A three goal lead after one period while being out-shot 18-9, did anyone not expect a Pens comeback?

 

1st Sabres team that's just fun to watch since '05-'06. (Even more enjoyable IMHO than '06-'07 because there isn't the constant feeling of impending doom of knowing they'll lose one of (but only one of :doh:) Drury or Briere.)

 

Except for the stretch around New Year's Day & the 1st 2 games minus O'Reilly & the 1 minus Eichel, this has been a VERY entertaining team to watch & one that is very easy to cheer for. Not looking to be beyond the last 5 games, but am reaaaally looking forward to next year.

Good stuff.

Anyone who hasn't seen this this season hasn't been paying attention.

I've been a Gorges defender because his battle and his defensive reads have mostly made up for his many flaws for most of this season despite the fact he's been playing out of his weight class all year.

In the past month the cracks are really starting to show.

Pretty sure the plan was to have somebody step up & replace him on the 1st pairing by now. Guess that guy will come in during the off-season. (Fowler please. ;))

 

Sliding Gorges into the D equivalent of Legwand's usage would be great next year.

[dudacek]

Pretty sure the plan was to have somebody step up & replace him on the 1st pairing by now. Guess that guy will come in during the off-season. (Fowler please. ;))

Sliding Gorges into the D equivalent of Legwand's usage would be great next year.

Agreed on all points. Gorges Pysyk would be good third pair IMO, but I think Pysyk is gone in the trade that brings us our Fowler.

[Taro T]

Agreed on all points. Gorges Pysyk would be good third pair IMO, but I think Pysyk is gone in the trade that brings us our Fowler.

Gorges would be a good partner for Pysyk. If he's moved in the Fowler (or equivalent) deal, there's 3 potential mentees for him on that pairing already: Nelson, Guhle, or the top pick in this year's draft. Would really like to see Gorges get 1 last shot at mentoring a kid into a player.

[Thorner]

Gorges would be a good partner for Pysyk. If he's moved in the Fowler (or equivalent) deal, there's 3 potential mentees for him on that pairing already: Nelson, Guhle, or the top pick in this year's draft. Would really like to see Gorges get 1 last shot at mentoring a kid into a player.

 

Obviously the returns on him are still very early, but I'd like to see Nelson get that shot. Would fit best too as hes a right handed shot and Gorges needs to be playing on the left. Say we get our Fowler, our D looks pretty decent as: Fowler-Ristolainen, McCabe-Bogosian, Gorges-Nelson.

 

And I would still like to use our pick on a LHD, to supplant Gorges down the line.

[Taro T]

Obviously the returns on him are still very early, but I'd like to see Nelson get that shot. Would fit best too as hes a right handed shot and Gorges needs to be playing on the left. Say we get our Fowler, our D looks pretty decent as: Fowler-Ristolainen, McCabe-Bogosian, Gorges-Nelson.

 

And I would still like to use our pick on a LHD, to supplant Gorges down the line.

Nelson is making a case for himself. Hoping it's not just a case of all the stars aligning like Foligno's 1st stint w/ Ennis & Stafford.

[inkman]

Nelson is making a case for himself. Hoping it's not just a case of all the stars aligning like Foligno's 1st stint w/ Ennis & Stafford.

It would be really nice to hit with him. Save one personnel move in the offseason. Although I don't think we will know his status until after next season.

[Taro T]

It would be really nice to hit with him. Save one personnel move in the offseason. Although I don't think we will know his status until after next season.

Not sure that him being a win would alter this off-season's plans. But it would be huge for helping the Sabres come out solid on the other side of an expansion draft.

 

My ideal scenario is him fitting in as the PP specialist Franson was supposed to be (& then some). Give him 3rd pairing early and see if he fits into a higher pairing when he gets used to the NHL.

[LGR4GM]

Not sure that him being a win would alter this off-season's plans. But it would be huge for helping the Sabres come out solid on the other side of an expansion draft.

 

My ideal scenario is him fitting in as the PP specialist Franson was supposed to be (& then some). Give him 3rd pairing early and see if he fits into a higher pairing when he gets used to the NHL.

Taro we're agreeing. .. that means the end is near.