GDT: Winnipeg @ Buffalo 1:00 PM EST 3-26-16

[PromoTheRobot]

Soccer players curve their shots all of the time.

Totally different aerodynamics.

Can a puck curve?

A "knuckle-puck" moves crazy but Jack is using his momentum to curl pucks to the net.

[North Buffalo]

Can a puck curve?

Yes, think frisbee. A strong wrist shot with lots of spin can make it happen if you led it slide a little off the end of the blade. Kinda like hitting a baseball or golf ball with an inside out swing.

Edited March 28, 2016 by North Buffalo

[SwampD]

Yes, think frisbee. A strong wrist shot with lots of spin can make it happen if you led it slide a little off the end of the blade. Kinda like hitting a baseball or golf ball with an inside out swing.

 

Maybe over 100 yards or so, but I doubt a puck curves (or twists) very much from the blue line to the net around.

 

Although, I wonder who gets more twist because of the Coriolis effect, Lefties or Righties.

[Randall Flagg]

That shot looked straight as an arrow to me.

[Winston]

From a baseball background, the reason that pitchers are able to curve pitches from only 60 feet is because of the immense spin they create. When a curveball is thrown at 2500+ revolutions per minute, that spin creates high pressure on top of the ball, low pressure on the bottom, so the ball drops. Now that's a vertical drop, but pitchers are also able to produce lateral movement like we're talking about here when they throw sliders. Similar concept, except now the ball is spinning on an axis that is rotated in comparison to the curve. The high RPM creates pressure that goes against the air resistance on one side of the ball, with the air resistance on the other side. Again, high/low pressure helps the ball dive.

 

Could a hockey player produce sufficient RPM with a wrister to curve a puck like a pitcher does with a ball? I honestly have no idea. It would be a fascinating thing for some sports science lab to investigate.  

 

That video from Calgary sure looks like the puck bends. I wish the camera was still the entire time, although it seems to stop panning before Jack releases. Maybe Jack has mastered the puck-curve, maybe it was tipped by that defender's stick, maybe it was just an optical illusion, or maybe Samson used the force to bend it in. We may never know.  

[WildCard]

There was a much better video where the camera is still and shot from overhead. You can very clearly see it bend from that angle

[Weave]

I'm doubtful that puck moved left to right.  I'd be hard pressed to believe the crosshatching on the side of the puck is anywhere near deep enough to provide the aerodynamic effect to move the puck a noticeable amount over 20' or so.  A baseball isn't doing much inside its first 20' of travel either.

 

You can't compare a puck to a frisbee.  A puck doesn't have an airfoil to create lift, and move it sideways when it isn't perfectly level.

[Randall Flagg]

I shoot around with a street hockey puck a lot, it's a lot lighter than an ice hockey puck, and that thing curves. Hard to imagine the ice hockey puck doing anything similar.

[Winston]

I'm doubtful that puck moved left to right.  I'd be hard pressed to believe the crosshatching on the side of the puck is anywhere near deep enough to provide the aerodynamic effect to move the puck a noticeable amount over 20' or so.  A baseball isn't doing much inside its first 20' of travel either.

 

You can't compare a puck to a frisbee.  A puck doesn't have an airfoil to create lift, and move it sideways when it isn't perfectly level.

 

Yeah, I agree a frisbee is a tough comparison because the air radically impacts them by design. That's why I brought up a baseball, despite the difference in shape. It's true that a ball does most of its movement in the last 20-30 feet. However, Jack's shot from the blue line against Calgary was just about 60 feet out. IF puck curving is possible, he was far enough out to do it.

 

That's certainly not to say I'm convinced. The fanatic in me wants to believe that he's got super powers. However, the realist in me thinks it's unlikely that anyone can spin a puck enough to create that insane, side-to-side inducing RPM. As a pitcher, you've got a higher amount of control with your finger positioning, release point/technique, tight grip, etc. You're set up to induce high RPM. You just don't have that control when you're using a stick, regardless of the curve on your blade.

 

On that note, does anyone know if Jack has a unique blade pattern? That seems like it would impact the amount of spin you put on a wrister. As a result, that could be pertinent to this conversation. 

[bunomatic]

I think its almost matrix like whot Jack does. Not saying he's actually curving the puck per say but actually bending time/space in much the same way a wormhole might work and the puck seems to reappear in another place. Because he's Jack.

[Wyldnwoody44]

I think jack used his bending powers to bend mcdavid's clavicle. That or a voodoo doll.

 

It's tough, if you follow closely you can see a small curve (very slightly) but if you really focus you can also see a straight line from this video.

 

I have a lot of science background, but I'm not even gonna try and tackle the physics behind this, though, If those with more sound engineering background chime In, I'm very interested to hear the debate :)

[Weave]

Yeah, I agree a frisbee is a tough comparison because the air radically impacts them by design. That's why I brought up a baseball, despite the difference in shape. It's true that a ball does most of its movement in the last 20-30 feet. However, Jack's shot from the blue line against Calgary was just about 60 feet out. IF puck curving is possible, he was far enough out to do it.

 

That's certainly not to say I'm convinced. The fanatic in me wants to believe that he's got super powers. However, the realist in me thinks it's unlikely that anyone can spin a puck enough to create that insane, side-to-side inducing RPM. As a pitcher, you've got a higher amount of control with your finger positioning, release point/technique, tight grip, etc. You're set up to induce high RPM. You just don't have that control when you're using a stick, regardless of the curve on your blade.

 

On that note, does anyone know if Jack has a unique blade pattern? That seems like it would impact the amount of spin you put on a wrister. As a result, that could be pertinent to this conversation. 

 

The other thing to consider is, aerodynamic force has half the surface of a baseball to work with.  With a puck, deltaP only has the height of the puck to to direct force against.  And a baseball has slightly less mass.  More area for force to work against + less mass = easier to alter the trajectory.

Edited March 28, 2016 by We've

[Doohicksie]

Totally different aerodynamics.

A "knuckle-puck" moves crazy but Jack is using his momentum to curl pucks to the net.

 

If he's curving it, it has more to do with the spin of the puck relative to the speed of the shot, than it does with the fact that he's moving.

That shot looked straight as an arrow to me.

 

That's the other possibility.  Some people see a curve but it could just as easily be a trick of the eye, and some see it while some don't.  It could be just the sinking of the ballistic path of the puck (if anything).

Could a hockey player produce sufficient RPM with a wrister to curve a puck like a pitcher does with a ball? I honestly have no idea. It would be a fascinating thing for some sports science lab to investigate.

This.

The other thing to consider is, aerodynamic force has half the surface of a baseball to work with.  With a puck, deltaP only has the height of the puck to to direct force against.  And a baseball has slightly less mass.  More area for force to work against + less mass = easier to alter the trajectory.

 

Another way to think about it, is that the puck only has the part of a sphere (in an approximate sense) that is acting at the maximum distance from the spin axis. 

[Stoner]

Has anyone ever heard a player or coach or commentator talk about a curved shot?

[North Buffalo]

I shoot around with a street hockey puck a lot, it's a lot lighter than an ice hockey puck, and that thing curves. Hard to imagine the ice hockey puck doing anything similar.

I dont have much of a slap shot but grew up playing street hockey. On ice i swear i have bent a puck into the net from the corner on the goal line. Depends how much curve on the stick and spin but again think frisbee especially frisbees used for distance. Ruberized discs smaller and heavier than normal frisbees.

[SDS]

The puck drifts with lateral movement. In one shot, Eichel is backing up and it drifts right to left. In the Jets game he is moving forward and the puck drifts left to right. There is no way he is taking the same wrist shot, with the same spin and curving the puck in opposite directions.

[LTS]

Can a puck curve?

 

On the ice.. yes.

 

The puck drifts with lateral movement. In one shot, Eichel is backing up and it drifts right to left. In the Jets game he is moving forward and the puck drifts left to right. There is no way he is taking the same wrist shot, with the same spin and curving the puck in opposite directions.

 

Yeppers.  Just the appearance of a curve.

 

In the jets game his goal is primarily scored because he pulls the puck in about 6 inches towards his body before letting the shot go.  In doing this he rapidly changes the starting point of the shot and thus impacts the tracking of Hutchinson. Top snipers and goalies will talk about that all the time.  Players who can alter the starting point of their shot rapidly will give a goaltender problems.

 

In the other game he floats a shot from the blueline.  There will continue to be some lateral inertia on the puck because he's not apply a hard enough forward force to counteract it.  Thus the puck will tend to drift.

 

On the ice you can curve a puck over the distance of the rink.  But that's expected when you use the friction on the spinning puck surface.  However, it only goes one way as I've not figured out how to shoot from toe to heel and get any significant revolutions on the puck.

[Winston]

The puck drifts with lateral movement. In one shot, Eichel is backing up and it drifts right to left. In the Jets game he is moving forward and the puck drifts left to right. There is no way he is taking the same wrist shot, with the same spin and curving the puck in opposite directions.

This is a good point.. It's not really possible to shoot both a "curve puck" and a "screw puck," to continue my baseball analogies. The right to left movement we appear to see in the Calgary shot would need to be induced by counter-clockwise spin. The low pressure would need to be on the left side of the puck. When you take a wrist shot (as a righty), you're putting clockwise spin on the puck. If anything, it would curve left to right.

Edited March 28, 2016 by EichSnipe

[dudacek]

Ball hockey it is very common to put action on your shot in a variety of ways, but that's much lighters hand a puck.