Steven Stamkos stays in Tampa Bay, 8.5mil x 8yrs

[SwampD]

I just don't want us Sabre fans getting our hopes up only to be used as a way to milk Toronto out of more money.

Is that a Dyngus Day avatar? Nice.

[WildCard]

A few things that have been thrown out here:

*Stamkos won't play wing

*Stamkos will demand to be captain

*Stamkos is a coach killer

Add up to a poisonous ego that will disrupt team chemistry.

 

Can someone please post links that support these statements?

 

 

Am I the only one who thinks the combination of Jack and Steve could be absolutely dynamite on the ice?

Or Sam and Steve, or Ryan and Steve?

 

Can someone please point to a team other than Toronto who

A) can pay Stamkos $12 million

B) where it makes sense to pay Stamkos more than $10 million

 

I think here are some premises here that need to be more closely examined.

I just really, really doubt you can put as large a presence as Stamkos into our locker room without him influencing it. He's not just going to come in here and slide in behind ROR for leadership and Jack for the prominent offensive player. He's been the man his entire career; #1 overall pick, face of the franchise, captain, etc. He has his choice where he goes, why would he come somewhere where

A) He likely gets paid less

B) Might play a position he doesn't like

C) Plays 2nd fiddle to two different, younger players than him

 

With all of that, our future cap needs, our current positional needs, and someone willing to overpay him (looking at you, Montreal, Toronto), I see absolutely no reason for Stamkos coming here

I have said it many times that Stamkos along side either Eich, or Samson, would be magical.

 

And I'd give him 12 million if he asked nicely.

Sure, it'd be fun to watch. Doubt it gets you a Cup though. 

He's not worth more than 9mil.

:wub:

 

Stamkos is one of the best offensive players in the league. It's oure inanity to think all he is is a power play specialist.

Who would you consider a power play specialist? Ovechkin?

Edited March 20, 2016 by WildCard

[dudacek]

I just really, really doubt you can put as large a presence as Stamkos into our locker room without him influencing it. He's not just going to come in here and slide in behind ROR for leadership and Jack for the prominent offensive player. He's been the man his entire career; #1 overall pick, face of the franchise, captain, etc. He has his choice where he goes, why would he come somewhere where

A) He likely gets paid less

B) Might play a position he doesn't like

C) Plays 2nd fiddle to two different, younger players than him

 

With all of that, our future cap needs, our current positional needs, and someone willing to overpay him (looking at you, Montreal, Toronto), I see absolutely no reason for Stamkos coming here

 

Sure, it'd be fun to watch. Doubt it gets you a Cup though?

This is all good stuff. Comes down to Steve's personality and how it fits with the role he would have here.

Personally, I like the idea because I project him as our much-needed sniper.

The fact he might not be comfortable in that role is a legitimate question.

[tom webster]

I just really, really doubt you can put as large a presence as Stamkos into our locker room without him influencing it. He's not just going to come in here and slide in behind ROR for leadership and Jack for the prominent offensive player. He's been the man his entire career; #1 overall pick, face of the franchise, captain, etc. He has his choice where he goes, why would he come somewhere where

A) He likely gets paid less

B) Might play a position he doesn't like

C) Plays 2nd fiddle to two different, younger players than him

 

With all of that, our future cap needs, our current positional needs, and someone willing to overpay him (looking at you, Montreal, Toronto), I see absolutely no reason for Stamkos coming here

 

Sure, it'd be fun to watch. Doubt it gets you a Cup though.

 

:wub:

 

Who would you consider a power play specialist? Ovechkin?

1) you make a lot of good points as to why if you were Stamkos you wouldn't come here. Fact is, no one but he and his inner circle know what factors will influence his decision. I think it was Hoss who said it earlier, everyone is motivated toward a decision by their own value system. It's no different then people assuming guys want to play for their hometown; some guys want to be anywhere but.

2) I consider a player like Franson a playoff specialist. Guys like Ovechkin and Stamkos bring a whole lot more.

[JJFIVEOH]

I remember a long time ago fans would criticize Andreychuck because most of his goals were on the PP. Like that is a bad thing.

How many power plays did the average NHL game get in the 80's and 90's compared to today?

[WildCard]

1) you make a lot of good points as to why if you were Stamkos you wouldn't come here. Fact is, no one but he and his inner circle know what factors will influence his decision. I think it was Hoss who said it earlier, everyone is motivated toward a decision by their own value system. It's no different then people assuming guys want to play for their hometown; some guys want to be anywhere but.

2) I consider a player like Franson a playoff specialist. Guys like Ovechkin and Stamkos bring a whole lot more.

Sorry, but do you mean, a pp specialist?

[Brawndo]

Side note, where has Hoss been?

[tom webster]

Sorry, but do you mean, a pp specialist?

Sorry, yes

[WildCard]

Sorry, yes

No worries. Franson, as in Johan, or Cody? If you don't mind, if you're referring to Cody, could you give me an example of a forward you consider to be a pp specialist? 

Side note, where has Hoss been?

No clue. Did the pp specialist discussion make you miss Hoss?  :nana:

[tom webster]

I'm not sure there is a forward that I would consider a playoff specialist. My point was that referring to anyone as a "specialist" infers that he is a liability to your team in other parts of the game. Guys like Stamkos and Ovechkin bring so much more to the game. Do they excel on the power play? Of course but to state that they shouldn't play 5 on 5 is, well, laughable.

[nucci]

How many power plays did the average NHL game get in the 80's and 90's compared to today?

I don't know. How many?

[inkman]

Side note, where has Hoss been?

Hopefully spending time with his better half. Although his hiatus came immediately after his Bona meltdown. I feel for the kid...a little.

[JJFIVEOH]

I don't know. How many?

 

Today's power play opportunities are only about 60-70% of what they were in Andreychuk's days.

 

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/stats.html

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Comparing Stamkos to Ovechkin? Stamkos is 58th in goals/60 minutes 5v5................ Ovechkin is 2nd.

 

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=201516&sit=5v5&pos=skaters&minutes=500&teamid=0&type=individual&sort=igoals60&sortdir=DESC

Edited March 20, 2016 by JJFIVEOH

[tom webster]

Today's power play opportunities are only about 60-70% of what they were in Andreychuk's days.

 

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/stats.html

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Comparing Stamkos to Ovechkin? Stamkos is 58th in goals/60 minutes 5v5................ Ovechkin is 2nd.

 

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=201516&sit=5v5&pos=skaters&minutes=500&teamid=0&type=individual&sort=igoals60&sortdir=DESC

 

And if you compare apples to apples Stamkos is 13th in the league in a down year when you filter out everyone playing less then 15 minutes per game.

Like I said, a little info in the wrong hands. If anyone wants, I'll spend a day researching stats to prove how good he is or we can just assume that hockey's brightest minds will be bidding on him because he is.

Hopefully spending time with his better half. Although his hiatus came immediately after his Bona meltdown. I feel for the kid...a little.

Two scenarios, I got tired of playing Jeckyl and Hyde, especially when I won my own contest, or that wasn't a voice in my head telling me he needed a little time away.

[WildCard]

And if you compare apples to apples Stamkos is 13th in the league in a down year when you filter out everyone playing less then 15 minutes per game.

Like I said, a little info in the wrong hands. If anyone wants, I'll spend a day researching stats to prove how good he is or we can just assume that hockey's brightest minds will be bidding on him because he is.

I trust you to not be biased and present stats showing what player he is, not just how good he is. If you'd like to, I would love to read it

Edited March 20, 2016 by WildCard

[JJFIVEOH]

I trust you to not be biased and present stats showing what player he is, not just how good he is. If you'd like to, I would love to read it

 

I've been waiting all thread for some proof. There's more to a player than power play points.

[Randall Flagg]

And if you compare apples to apples Stamkos is 13th in the league in a down year when you filter out everyone playing less then 15 minutes per game.

Like I said, a little info in the wrong hands. If anyone wants, I'll spend a day researching stats to prove how good he is or we can just assume that hockey's brightest minds will be bidding on him because he is.

 

Two scenarios, I got tired of playing Jeckyl and Hyde, especially when I won my own contest, or that wasn't a voice in my head telling me he needed a little time away.

This would be very cool, if you have time.

[tom webster]

I trust you to not be biased and present stats showing what player he is, not just how good he is. If you'd like to, I would love to read it

I think you missed my point. There seem to be hundreds of data bases measuring every part of every game and quantifying every players impact on that game. Is there one stat that is the be all, end all? No. So what stats do you use. JJ seems to like 5 on 5 goal scoring but what is the proper filter? I say over 15 minutes per game, someone else will say well jeez, if you give player X that many minutes he'd score as well.

Anyway, I have a day off this week, maybe I'll put together 20 categories and measure his ranking in those categories.

One thing I can probably guarantee without doing it? Out of all the players that fall into the elite category in those rankings, he is going to be one of the only ones available without giving up any assets. That's what creates this debate. Whether you believe he is top 10 or top 50, you can add him to your team without weekending any other part of your team for at least two years.

[WildCard]

I think you missed my point. There seem to be hundreds of data bases measuring every part of every game and quantifying every players impact on that game. Is there one stat that is the be all, end all? No. So what stats do you use. JJ seems to like 5 on 5 goal scoring but what is the proper filter? I say over 15 minutes per game, someone else will say well jeez, if you give player X that many minutes he'd score as well.

Anyway, I have a day off this week, maybe I'll put together 20 categories and measure his ranking in those categories.

One thing I can probably guarantee without doing it? Out of all the players that fall into the elite category in those rankings, he is going to be one of the only ones available without giving up any assets. That's what creates this debate. Whether you believe he is top 10 or top 50, you can add him to your team without weekending any other part of your team for at least two years.

I fail to see how I missed your point. You want to collect stats to paint a picture on Stamkos, all I'm asking is you collect stats from every facet of his game, not just those years/stats that support an argument for obtaining him. 

 

As for your 2nd part, I wholly disagree with that. You are still weakening your team through choosing 1 path of surplus over another of deficiency. 

Edited March 20, 2016 by WildCard

[tom webster]

I fail to see how I missed your point. You want to collect stats to paint a picture on Stamkos, all I'm asking is you collect stats from every facet of his game, not just those years/stats that support an argument for obtaining him.

 

As for your 2nd part, I wholly disagree with that. You are still weakening your team through choosing 1 path of surplus over another of deficiency.

A) maybe I didn't make my point well

B) adding Stamkos doesn't prevent adding a top pair defensemand and extending Risto

[WildCard]

A) maybe I didn't make my point well

B) adding Stamkos doesn't prevent adding a top pair defensemand and extending Risto

Ah but I think it does. I think it very much reduces the quality of depth you have in your both your future forwards and defensemen, as well as limiting Risto to a partner that is much more suited for a 2nd/3rd pairing than top minutes. Basically a Gorges or a Bogo

[beerme1]

Said this before I wouldn't go over 11 mill.     but 10 mill + is what he is at least getting and I can't see him signing in tampa for that kind of money.

They offered him 8 mill, If I'm Stamkos I laugh and walk away.

 

 

Why? 8 mil in FL is the same as 10 mil here after taxes.

[tom webster]

Ah but I think it does. I think it very much reduces the quality of depth you have in your both your future forwards and defensemen, as well as limiting Risto to a partner that is much more suited for a 2nd/3rd pairing than top minutes. Basically a Gorges or a Bogo

Disagree with the part about the defenseman and I am not interested in spending a lot on depth forwards. With Stamkos, O'Reilly, Sam and Jack, two years of Evander and Zemgus plus an intact third line, the rest of the forwards will be kids and interchangeable pieces you add and subtract at the deadline and prior to every year.

Again, I'm not even advocating for Stamkos just stating that it's very doable for at least two years and after that is dependant on the cap and choosing the right players to keep. One thing I'm sure of, if the contracts are good value, you will never lose good players for nothing.

I feel like we are going in circles so I'm done for now but I will spend some time on putting together a statistical argument to support his worth.

[dudacek]

Ah but I think it does. I think it very much reduces the quality of depth you have in your both your future forwards and defensemen, as well as limiting Risto to a partner that is much more suited for a 2nd/3rd pairing than top minutes. Basically a Gorges or a Bogo

I think it has been shown in this thread how we could add both Stamkos and a Fowler without going over the cap.

Even after paying Risto this summer , we will have $19 million to play with.

 

Gionta and Franson are coming off the books, Ennis will almost certainly be gone, but that will pay for raises to Sam and Jack

There is the sticky issue of Moulson, which may force us to deal Kane.

Hopefully we find a creative way to deal with that, but even if we don't, we have the cap space to make two big moves.

[WildCard]

I think it has been shown in this thread how we could add both Stamkos and a Fowler without going over the cap.

Even after paying Risto this summer , we will have $19 million to play with.

 

Gionta and Franson are coming off the books, Ennis will almost certainly be gone, but that will pay for raises to Sam and Jack

There is the sticky issue of Moulson, which may force us to deal Kane.

Hopefully we find a creative way to deal with that, but even if we don't, we have the cap space to make two big moves.

And there goes your forward depth. Chicago, Anaheim, hell even the Caps this year, are good because they don't rely on just 2 lines. Pittsburgh, meanwhile, continues to toil around in their own woes