Steven Stamkos stays in Tampa Bay, 8.5mil x 8yrs

[LGR4GM]

So do we think Stamkos is one of the top 5 players in the league and will he continue to be that 2, ,3 or 4 years from now?

 

Also Stamkos wants to be a center and I bet he expects to be captain of any team he plays for.  Are you comfortable with Eichel as the 2nd line center and Stamkos being the captain over ROR?

 

I think depending on how you answers these questions, it will determine how you feel about Stamkos. 

 

 

Stamkos is no doubt a very good player.  For 9mil 5 years I might jump on that train. I think he will want 12mil X 7 years and that is where I balk.  Now we could get lucky.  I remember hearing that ROR wanted 8mil+ and 7 years but I think having him at 7.5 is a good deal.  Stamkos might be fine with 6 years and say 10mil but again, I am not sure if he will be worth that deal.

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by LGR4GM

[TrueBlueGED]

Can you add a poll for how much we think he'll get (<10, 10, >10) and how much we'd be willing to give? I'm curious how expectations and desires line up on this.

[JJFIVEOH]

No, I don't think he should be the captain of this team.

No, I don't think he should be given the reigns over Eichel.

No, I don't think Murray should be handcuffing this team with that kind of cap hit for a one dimensional playoff disappearing act.

 

Thanks for listening. :D

Edited March 18, 2016 by JJFIVEOH

[sabills]

So do we think Stamkos is one of the top 5 players in the league and will he continue to be that 2, ,3 or 4 years from now?

 

Also Stamkos wants to be a center and I bet he expects to be captain of any team he plays for.  Are you comfortable with Eichel as the 2nd line center and Stamkos being the captain over ROR?

 

I think depending on how you answers these questions, it will determine how you feel about Stamkos. 

 

 

Stamkos is no doubt a very good player.  For 9mil 5 years I might jump on that train. I think he will want 12mil X 7 years and that is where I bulk.  Now we could get lucky.  I remember hearing that ROR wanted 8mil+ and 7 years but I think having him at 7.5 is a good deal.  Stamkos might be fine with 6 years and say 10mil but again, I am not sure if he will be worth that deal.

 

I don't want either of those things. This it the biggest hangup with Stammer coming here, honestly. Murray basically promised ROR he would play center, and he has earned the Captain title this year so hard. I don't really want both of our theoretical future centers being moved to wing; I want Eichel at center for the next 15 years.

 

Stamkos definitely will need to be center, I don't know his feelings on the Captaincy, maybe an "A" would be enough for him. They only way I see this being resolved is Murray/DD saying to ROR "OK, we're going to move you to wing, but you are our Captain next year. You cool with that?" and ROR saying yes. Then your top two lines are Kane-Stamkos-ROR and Girgensons-Eichel-Reinhart; maybe ennis in there for Girgs.

 

I'm not really planning on it though. For my money, I'd rather they bring in Mike Hoffman from Ottawa, stick him on Eichels wing with Reinhart, put Ennis up top with ROR and Kane, and watch Hoffman score 35.

[TrueBlueGED]

Thanks for adding the poll. I promise not to talk about TWD here now :nana: ;)

[sabills]

No, I don't think he should be the captain of this team.

No, I don't think he should be given the reigns over Eichel.

No, I don't think Murray should be handcuffing this team with that kind of cap hit for a one dimensional playoff disappearing act.

 

Thanks for listening. :D

 

Just for reference (Honestly. I'm not really sure if this number is especially bad or just ok compared with other players):

 

Stamkos Goals-Per-Game: Regular season=.55 Playoffs =.36

Stamkos Points-Per-Game: Regular Season=.985 Playoffs = .72

 

 

And with the new poll, I would totally pay him the big money, I just don't want to give him the status that he wants. If he's willing to come play on Eichels with and wear an A they can give him a max deal as far as I'm concerned.

Edited March 18, 2016 by sabills

[LGR4GM]

Thanks for adding the poll. I promise not to talk about TWD here now :nana: ;)

lol's

[Weave]

*IF* being captain is important to Stamkos, and *IF* being the 1st line center is important to Stamkos, we won't have to worry about him coming here because he knows he's not getting those things here.

 

*IF* he wants to be a key offensive piece to a young and upcoming team chock full of high end offensive talent........... the salary he demands would be an interesting debate.  Lots of pros and cons there.

[That Aud Smell]

*IF* being captain is important to Stamkos, and *IF* being the 1st line center is important to Stamkos, we won't have to worry about him coming here because he knows he's not getting those things here.

 

*IF* he wants to be a key offensive piece to a young and upcoming team chock full of high end offensive talent........... the salary he demands would be an interesting debate.  Lots of pros and cons there.

 

Terrific distillation of what's going on here. Fascinating subject, really. Could he be the team's Hossa?

[JJFIVEOH]

Just for reference (Honestly. I'm not really sure if this number is especially bad or just ok compared with other players):

 

Stamkos Goals-Per-Game: Regular season=.55 Playoffs =.36

Stamkos Points-Per-Game: Regular Season=.985 Playoffs = .72

 

 

And with the new poll, I would totally pay him the big money, I just don't want to give him the status that he wants. If he's willing to come play on Eichels with and wear an A they can give him a max deal as far as I'm concerned.

 

Thanks, those numbers sound about right. While those playoff numbers aren't bad, they aren't elite. When you're a one dimensional player, and you expect an elite level contract, you'd better be performing your one dimension on an elite level at all times because you don't have much else to add.

 

Here's my issue. Some say Stamkos isn't the same without St. Louis, but if he had Eichel..................... My issue with that is, Stamkos is supposed to be an elite player, he is the one that is supposed to make everybody else better. Not the other way around. If a one dimensional player needs a complimentary piece to perform on an elite level, he doesn't deserve an elite contract much less elite demands. Murray can find complimentary pieces much cheaper.

 

Several Sabres (Risto, Eichel, Reinhart, Girgensons..........) will be looking at significant pay raises in the near future. I don't want to be handcuffed against the cap, possibly needing to move some of our current talent, in order to afford Stamkos.

[Weave]

I think we'd need to look at other elite players playoff stats before deciding Stamkos' numbers aren't among them.  Scoring goes down in the playoffs.

[sabills]

I think we'd need to look at other elite players playoff stats before deciding Stamkos' numbers aren't among them.  Scoring goes down in the playoffs.

 

Yeah, thats what I'm wondering about, too. If I get the time tonight I'll look up some comparables.

Edited March 18, 2016 by sabills

[LGR4GM]

I think we'd need to look at other elite players playoff stats before deciding Stamkos' numbers aren't among them.  Scoring goes down in the playoffs.

I'll run the numbers, if we can name some names.

[tom webster]

I think we'd need to look at other elite players playoff stats before deciding Stamkos' numbers aren't among them.  Scoring goes down in the playoffs.

Come on, the first facts changed the argument from disappearing act to not bad. You add other comparables, then what will the argument be? I don't like blonds?

[JJFIVEOH]

I think we'd need to look at other elite players playoff stats before deciding Stamkos' numbers aren't among them.  Scoring goes down in the playoffs.

 

Scoring is pretty close to regular season. In fact in 2010-11, the other year Stamkos played more than one playoff series, the playoff average was actually higher than the regular season. Not sure about last year. Last year he was 4th on the team in goals, not what I expect out of an elite player supposedly seeking $10+ mil/yr.

 

http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_GoalsPerGame.php

[sabills]

I'll run the numbers, if we can name some names.

 

I'd say Kane is an obvious one, as well as Crosby and OV. Maybe John Tavares would be good, but IDK how much playoff time he has.

[TrueBlueGED]

I'll run the numbers, if we can name some names.

 

 

I'd say Kane is an obvious one, as well as Crosby and OV. Maybe John Tavares would be good, but IDK how much playoff time he has.

 

Malkin, Kopitar, Bergeron, Hossa, Toews, Getzlaf, Perry...maybe a general comparison to say the top two forwards on each team that has made the conference finals in the past few years? Lots of legwork, but by narrowing down to conference finals we A) cut down a lot of that legwork and B) get a team comparable for what we hope the Sabres are sooner than later.

[JJFIVEOH]

Kane:

 

.37 GPG regular season

1.00 PPG regular season

 

.413 GPG postseason

.98 PPG postseason

[LGR4GM]

P. Kane = 1.0ppg Reg / 0.983 PPG PO

S. Crosby = 1.329ppg Reg / 1.18 PPG PO

A. Ovechkin = 1.158ppg Reg / 0.972 PPG PO

[WildCard]

*IF* being captain is important to Stamkos, and *IF* being the 1st line center is important to Stamkos, we won't have to worry about him coming here because he knows he's not getting those things here.

 

*IF* he wants to be a key offensive piece to a young and upcoming team chock full of high end offensive talent........... the salary he demands would be an interesting debate.  Lots of pros and cons there.

I would say all of those things are huge for him, and that's why a) he won't come here and b) bringing him here would be a huge mistake

 

I'll run the numbers, if we can name some names.

Malkin, Kopitar, Bergeron, Hossa, Toews, Getzlaf, Perry...maybe a general comparison to say the top two forwards on each team that has made the conference finals in the past few years? Lots of legwork, but by narrowing down to conference finals we A) cut down a lot of that legwork and B) get a team comparable for what we hope the Sabres are sooner than later.

Justin Williams? Patrik Kane? Both with Conn Smythes (at least I think Williams has one).

 

Actually, I think Quick got one, and Doughty the other for the Kings

P. Kane = 1.0ppg Reg / 0.983 PPG PO

S. Crosby = 1.329ppg Reg / 1.18 PPG PO

A. Ovechkin = 1.158ppg Reg / 0.972 PPG PO

I would imagine a lot of Ovechkin's has to do with limited pp opportunities in the postseason. I'm shocked Crosby's isn't lower, I would figure teams would glue onto him in the postseason much more so

[sabills]

P. Kane = 1.0ppg Reg / 0.983 PPG PO

S. Crosby = 1.329ppg Reg / 1.18 PPG PO

A. Ovechkin = 1.158ppg Reg / 0.972 PPG PO

 

Seeing as I'm writing up benchmarking numbers for work right now I kinda want to throw a bunch of these stats in excel and see what kind of info we can squeeze out of this. Obviously they all have a drop, but what is the percent drop? How about power play time Reg. vs. Playoffs? ANALYTICS!

Edited March 18, 2016 by sabills

[LGR4GM]

Seeing as I'm writing up benchmarking numbers for work right now I kinda want to throw a bunch of these stats in excel and see what kind of info we can squeeze out of this. Obviously they all have a drop, but what is the percent drop? How about power play time Reg. vs. Playoffs? ANALYTICS!

If you want to do the leg work I would love to see it and interpret those stats. 

[WildCard]

I want to vote in the thread, but I would only pay Stamkos what ROR makes  :lol:

[LGR4GM]

I feel like by Board Law if something is a hockey super thread it must have all the analytics.

[sabills]

If you want to do the leg work I would love to see it and interpret those stats. 

 

We'll see how inspired I get tomorrow evening. The wife's going out with some friends, and you know what they say: when the cat's away, the mouse will use that time to record and interpret advanced statistics to argue with strangers on the internet!