World Cup 2016

[dudacek]

Flagg, I salute your effort at explaining...but there's no way people of Smell's age made it through that without falling asleep.

Aw, look at you, all pretending to be millennial and stuff.

Edited September 10, 2016 by dudacek

[French Collection]

In Ottawa for my son's hockey tournament. We've got tickets for the grudge match game tonight.

I hope it's a barn burner.

[3putt]

I wasn't exactly sober either so I'm afraid to read what I typed :lol: I'm just going to pretend it never hapI haveened

You hit the high points.  I too shared your observations without having tuned into hf boards.  I also think most missed the salient point in Liners post. "I have seen Jack play better."  We all have and yes that may have caused the disappointment on my end.  I echo the concern I have that people keep challenging a posters opinion with media reports.  I watch they watch and  our observations can differ.  I really don't care what some writer has to say.  If they have inside info great.  But I don't need them to inform my opinion of what I am seeing.  Nice post.

[Thorner]

You hit the high points.  I too shared your observations without having tuned into hf boards.  I also think most missed the salient point in Liners post. "I have seen Jack play better."  We all have and yes that may have caused the disappointment on my end.  I echo the concern I have that people keep challenging a posters opinion with media reports.  I watch they watch and  our observations can differ.  I really don't care what some writer has to say.  If they have inside info great.  But I don't need them to inform my opinion of what I am seeing.  Nice post.

 

The more we all discuss this, the more I think these things are just going to come down to personal temperament of the poster. I think there are several things about Jack's play that game that can be interpreted in a number of ways, and that there isn't just one valid interpretation. One person may be inclined to point out a perceived negative, and another may not. I don't think there is a right or wrong way to go about it. 

Edited September 10, 2016 by Thorny

[dudacek]

The more we all discuss this, the more I think these things are just going to come down to personal temperament. I think there are several things about Jack's play that game that can be interpreted in a number of ways, and that there isn't just one valid interpretation. One person may be inclined to point out a perceived negative, and another may not. I don't think there is a right or wrong way to go about it.

 

So Stafford actually does care?

[Thorner]

So Stafford actually does care?

 

Sorry, I meant the temperament of the poster. I'll go back and edit.

 

But, yes, Stafford does definitely care.

 

....about conserving as much energy as possible for retired living. 

[That Aud Smell]

Very disappointed to see this dust up transform into a damn Kumbaya circle.

 

Such is the life cycle of a good message board, though.

[WildCard]

all y'all Jack Eichel sucks social security should be cut and jet fuel can't melt steel beams

[Randall Flagg]

Ristolainen had a couple of points today. Huge minutes again. Tim has to get on the phone with the coach of Team Finland. I don't want Risto playing 6 30-minute games before the NHL season starts. He was worn out by game 45 last season. 

Also praying to the hockey gods that Kulikov (who is playing big minutes for team Russia) really helps Risto out and that Bylsma cuts his ice time by a couple minutes a game. 

[dudacek]

Am really hoping Kulikov is a big mistake by the Panthers.

[K-9]

Okay, so I feel responsible for the direction this thread turned, since I'm the one that first mentioned Jack. I'm going to quote myself a bit and make everything I've been saying a bit more clear.

 

Towards the end of the first period, I posted these: "Honestly, he's been the worst player through a period on that team" and "People on hfboards are making fun of his play so far  :( "

 

Then, this: "Luckily, I don't think he gives a ######, and is just trying to get to the regular season. It's not that he's trying hard and can't keep up, he just looks like he did in the summer league."

"To his credit, the second half of the game he was much better. That first period was ugly though."

 

Then, Liger made one comment about how he thinks Jack floats sometimes, and how he was doing it in this game, how he was a little disappointed, but whatever. He said he was very strong on the puck, which he was. 

Then a bit of piling on, with three posters or so debating these points. Whatever, fair game. Then Liger said this "He wasn't bad. No one on team USA was bad. But when our franchise center goes out there and is just okay, in a game of other young stars, I don't have to like. I expect more of Jack going forward and I am mystified by having to defend saying "jack eichel could have been better last night, he floated a bit too much". Which, IMO, was totally fair.

 

It is not irrational for us to be excited after months of no hockey to see our stud play with others his age, and then to be a bit disappointed when his first period in particular was not good, while we fully admitted that his play improved as the game went on. It's just not. I'm not backing down from how I felt in the moment last night. He lost the puck on about four rushes in the first period because he was a bit careless. While I was making these comments, there were hundreds of fans who watch as much hockey as us, or more, on hfboards, piling on our guy for his play. That happened. It isn't just Liger and I. They don't care about Eichel, they were just seeing the same things we were. All we wanted to say was that that doesn't feel as good to watch as we were hoping for. His first period was bad hockey, period. He started generating things in the second and third, and had a few very nice backchecks, which are not the same thing as defensive zone play, by the way. Which he also looked better at than I remember him finishing last season. 

 

I watched Jack Eichel play 81 games last year. Jack has had many "good games", Carolina, Detroit, Ottawa several times, Philadelphia, Tampa, Winnipeg. Last night wasn't a "good game" just like it wasn't his "worst game" and I'm not going to apologize or back down from saying that, and I'm not going to pretend the sky is falling and demand Jack to be a PPG player and lead us to glory. 

 

 

 Thorny posts

The thing is, all the articles I've read from major outlets say Eichel had a good game yesterday, and tout the 200 foot game he displayed. So if he's getting praise from outside sources (irrelevant jabber of the HF Boards not withstanding), why must we be so critical in here? Especially as it was a meaningless game. I understand one has every right to do so and to each their own, just reads like people are going out of their way to do so.

 

I don't think we're being "so critical", as I quoted above, I think it all started perfectly in line. I'm not sure if you caught the game, and I read the articles, and by 200 foot game they meant about four backchecks. Which is great. These articles didn't actually give any depth into his game or anything else, including the TBN one. I learn way more from hockey fans in-game than I do reading articles from "experts" after the game, personally. I saw what I saw. You're right that it was a meaningless game, too, I'm just as baffled as to how this became the big thing it did, not even getting into the "millennial" stuff.

Smell is right when he says it's going to be a long season. If Jack is getting criticized like this now, I can't imagine how much it'll increase going forward. I daresay the expectations placed on the kid will be unmeetable.

 

I've spent four or five seasons on this board. This season is going to be fantastic and fun, and we're all going to learn many things from each other, just like every other season. It's not going to be an insufferable call to burn Jack at the stake because we wish he didn't look bad among his peers for a period. This is where we get into "straw man" territory or something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I get where you are coming from and you have every right to make your view on the matter heard, and I can't speak for everyone, but I don't like how it keeps getting framed in a way that implies those disagreeing with the viewpoint you are expressing are just "shouting down" any criticism of Eichel because it's ludicrous as a rule. I'm not against criticism of him or any other player for that matter, when I believe it's warranted. I just happen to wholeheartedly disagree with the criticism of Eichel in this case for a myriad of reasons.As I read through how this started again, I'm not so sure that this isn't how it started, to a small degree. 

There is not one single aspect of the crticism of his play yesterday I agree with, on any level.DId you see the first period, where most of our criticism came from? I hadn't seen him play like that since before Christmas break. He stuck out like a sore thumb, and got better. I'm sure in the real games he'll be great. But again, I will post something here when our guy looks the way he did, especially when Toronto's guy had a great period (that was a sad 20 minutes before Matthews kinda disappeared) and guess what? I'll go into the Eichel thread and predict 30+goals, because it's not going to be a long, Eichel-hunting season after a few comments.

 

K-9 post

 

 

There's nothing inherently "healthy" about criticizing the guy on a message board. What health benefits come from it? The power of negative thinking?

Sure, it's all well and good to do so in conversation if it's warranted, but if it was healthy to do so it would be worth doing it just for the sake of doing it. But it's not.

Honestly, Jack was good yesterday.Jack was alright yesterday, Jack was good against Carolina in March, and Jack was great in Tampa last November 10th. 

 

Thorny postI think people are trying to find things to criticize about him as a defence mechanism. If you pick him apart now, and learn to expect the perceived negative habits, it won't hurt so much when he doesn't become the greatest player in the NHL and score 100 points every year. Heaven forbid we just appreciate his talent. Better to criticize perceived failings - get ahead of the curve. It's ok now, no one will think you are a blind fanboy, you've critiqued your franchise player in an exhibition game....No. Your guys' arguments are getting weird. I'm still saying the same things. I'm not some idiot who watched 30 seconds of the game, saw Jack flub a pass, and called him a bust. I don't need Jack to be anything more than what I'm confident he'll become.

Sometimes it's just easier to try and find the failings in someone, I guess.

 

...ok.

 

 

 

K-9

 

 

Some interesting psychological food for thought here.

As for Jack's game last night and the idead he was floating, I've come to the conclusion that some just didn't pay closer attention to the game. He played well, why no praise for that from his detractors?

 

Maybe it's hard to believe, but I watched the game pretty eagerly. I'm pretty confused by the latest direction of these "Jack didn't play bad" arguments. And Liger and I both had said numerous times that he improved and looked strong as hell, which I'd call praise.

 

And I'd just like to emphasize one more time, the experts who write articles who suck sometimes and should be taken at their word others, whichever is most convenient, only cited a few backchecks as their "strong 200 foot game" claim. He was fine in the defensive zone, he is visibly the strongest guy on the ice and his acceleration is great. He had a bad first period, bad enough to be a talking point among people who don't give a rat's ass about the Sabres, and for some fans to point it out here. It will happen to every player at some point this season. Wait til an injury puts Gionta next to O'Reilly. 

 

Go Sabres, and I still love you Jack. 

 

 

 

 

Edit: I'm not sure what happened here, I"ll try and fix it. 

Edit again: Okay, it didn't like me quoting that much I guess. Hope this makes sense

 

 

Also, I'm a millennial college student and I don't know what a safe space is

 

I didn't post the first one you attributed to me.

 

He was good on Thursday and we can agree to disagreed on that if you wish.

 

I railed against the connection between "suffering" during the tank with holding him to a higher standard because of that "suffering." I wont ever be on board with that line of reasoning.

[Randall Flagg]

I didn't post the first one you attributed to me.

 

He was good on Thursday and we can agree to disagreed on that if you wish.

 

I railed against the connection between "suffering" during the tank with holding him to a higher standard because of that "suffering." I wont ever be on board with that line of reasoning.

My bad, I had everything in the quotes but the board didn't like how many I had and scrambled everything up and I tried to get it back into correct order but I'm not surprised I didn't get everything right.

 

Fully agreed on not lashing out at Jack because of the tank.

 

He's gonna help lead us to the playoffs this year and we're going to have a lot of fun coming along for the ride.

Am really hoping Kulikov is a big mistake by the Panthers.

They used Yandle to (more than) cover for his ability to move the puck up the ice, so they're going to be okay, but Kulikov's skill set is going to be one that we notice right away, because we've sorely lacked it.

[K-9]

My bad, I had everything in the quotes but the board didn't like how many I had and scrambled everything up and I tried to get it back into correct order but I'm not surprised I didn't get everything right.

 

Fully agreed on not lashing out at Jack because of the tank.

 

He's gonna help lead us to the playoffs this year and we're going to have a lot of fun coming along for the ride.

They used Yandle to (more than) cover for his ability to move the puck up the ice, so they're going to be okay, but Kulikov's skill set is going to be one that we notice right away, because we've sorely lacked it.

Just for the record Randall, I think you and Liger are two of the best contributors to this space and I hope neither of you will take my adversarial position to heart. We are gonna disagree from time to time, but I'm content knowing we all have Jack's and the Sabres' best interest in mind. 

 

And I STILL like the cut of your jib!

 

GO SABRES!!!

[Randall Flagg]

Just for the record Randall, I think you and Liger are two of the best contributors to this space and I hope neither of you will take my adversarial position to heart. We are gonna disagree from time to time, but I'm content knowing we all have Jack's and the Sabres' best interest in mind.

 

And I STILL like the cut of your jib!

 

GO SABRES!!!

Thanks for the kind words, and same to you. :thumbsup: Edited September 10, 2016 by Randall Flagg

[bunomatic]

This thread went off the rails. No one watch the game last night ?

[TrueBlueGED]

This thread went off the rails. No one watch the game last night ?

Wasn't on TV for me, and didn't feel like going out. I wanted to watch, though.

[bunomatic]

Wasn't on TV for me, and didn't feel like going out. I wanted to watch, though.

I was looking forward to some game discussion and was surprised with the lack of. Actually I'm more hyped to watch team NA to see the younguns. 

[Eleven]

I was looking forward to some game discussion and was surprised with the lack of. Actually I'm more hyped to watch team NA to see the younguns.

 

Same. This isn't a legit international tournament to me.

[LTS]

Ristolainen had a couple of points today. Huge minutes again. Tim has to get on the phone with the coach of Team Finland. I don't want Risto playing 6 30-minute games before the NHL season starts. He was worn out by game 45 last season. 

 

Also praying to the hockey gods that Kulikov (who is playing big minutes for team Russia) really helps Risto out and that Bylsma cuts his ice time by a couple minutes a game. 

 

So it's bad Risto is playing too much but Jack should skate harder?  I'm not Goldilocks.. not quite sure where "just right" lies on the scale. ;)

 

I want to watch.. but some damn fool went and got two puppies yesterday (we had lost our last dog in April after 18 years) so I was busy last night.  That said... the wife is happy, the kids are ecstatic and I have two pretty damn cool puppies in the house.  One of them has shown an interest in watching the TV.  Hope she's a hockey fan. :)

[Randall Flagg]

So it's bad Risto is playing too much but Jack should skate harder?  I'm not Goldilocks.. not quite sure where "just right" lies on the scale. ;)

 

I want to watch.. but some damn fool went and got two puppies yesterday (we had lost our last dog in April after 18 years) so I was busy last night.  That said... the wife is happy, the kids are ecstatic and I have two pretty damn cool puppies in the house.  One of them has shown an interest in watching the TV.  Hope she's a hockey fan. :)

I assume you're joking, so I won't get into why this is an incorrect assessment of my stance. :) 

 

What time is the game on tonight?

[Winston]

I assume you're joking, so I won't get into why this is an incorrect assessment of my stance. :)

 

What time is the game on tonight?

6:00 I believe.. So, soon!

 

Can't wait to see Johnny-McDavid-Eichel. Should be lots of fun. Pretournament hockey making me forget all about football. Who woulda thought?

[Huckleberry]

So it's bad Risto is playing too much but Jack should skate harder?  I'm not Goldilocks.. not quite sure where "just right" lies on the scale. ;)

 

I want to watch.. but some damn fool went and got two puppies yesterday (we had lost our last dog in April after 18 years) so I was busy last night.  That said... the wife is happy, the kids are ecstatic and I have two pretty damn cool puppies in the house.  One of them has shown an interest in watching the TV.  Hope she's a hockey fan. :)

 

What did you get ?

[Randall Flagg]

Eichel almost put one in early, on a pass from McDavid. This should be fun.

[Winston]

My ESPN feed has so commentators.. Can hear all the on-ice action though. It's oddly satisfying.

[Randall Flagg]

Ekblad scores, from Matthews.

2-0, Larkin on a 3 on 1.

Chara is such a pilon. It's sad how good Matthews is.

3-0, Ekblad. This team is nuts.