Sabres' brass LOVES Leafs fans at FNC

[SwampD]

The notion that the Sabres have not been "supported" by the Pegulas is ridiculous on its face.

 

Please cite a single example of the Pegulas' lack of support.

 

 

Oh, man. I'd forgotten all about that scene, that movie.

 

I think the implication there is that the owners pre-2/2/11 were spotty, shady.

Yes.

 

OK, thanks.

 

If that's the implication -- it's been 5 years of the Pegulas throwing money at the franchise.  I don't see how anyone could question their support.

Absolutely. One could also see someone building value in one of their assets.

 

I agree with this.

 

But I don't begrudge the cynics who wonder if there is another shoe yet to drop.

Absolutely. It's real easy to support a bunch of kids on entry level contracts. Forgive us if we've been programmed to expect talent to go elsewhere if they want to be supported by ownership. We've seen it too many times in the past.

 

FTR, I beleive they will be supported when it comes time to see if winning is the only goal, but I don't condemn anyone for questioning it.

EDIT to add: Yeah,... that train scene...

[That Aud Smell]

I just exchanged emails with Lorne Opler. I asked him specifically about the question/context around Mike's Stanley Cup dream killing words... The poor guy is rightfully confused as hell as to why anyone would require clarification on that article...

 

 

Apparently Lorne didn't find Mike's comments "indefensible"...

 

:huh:

 

I hadn't felt like this thread was all that weird. It's getting there now.

 

Absolutely. It's real easy to support a bunch of kids on entry level contracts. Forgive us if we've been programmed to expect talent to go elsewhere if they want to be supported by ownership. We've seen it too many times in the past.

 

FTR, I beleive they will be supported when it comes time to see if winning is the only goal, but I don't condemn anyone for questioning it.

 

Well, wait a second. We've already seen strong proof that the Pegulas are willing to throw beaucoup bucks at people. Tyler Myers comes to mind. I don't think there's any doubt that, had the Pegulas owned the team in/around 2006-07, July 1, 2007 would not be known as Black Sunday.

 

I don't think that's where the skepticism lies.

Edited February 2, 2016 by That Aud Smell

[woods-racer]

Aren't Weber's advanced stats decent compared to the other Sabres defensemen?

They are decent compared to other defensemen around the league. Giving consideration to the role he should have.

He was/is the Connelly or Staford of the current roster.

[That Aud Smell]

I do think this is getting lost in the sauce.

 

This, to me, was a valid line of inquiry: Should the Sabres FO be on record saying that they love Leaf fans being in their building?

[That Aud Smell]

#fancystatshijack

[SDS]

:huh:

 

I hadn't felt like this thread was all that weird. It's getting there now.

 

 

Revisiting the original post...

 

 

That sound you just heard is one more of the million things you do to win a Cup getting flushed down the toilet.

[WildCard]

#fancystatshijack

Sorry, my bad guys  :lol:

[That Aud Smell]

Fair deuce.

 

I tend to gloss over that sort of hyperbole. That's kinda PA's m.o., though. I take that to mean: Is this sort of statement consistent with the mission statement Pegula articulated at his opening press conference? Is saying you love opposing fans in your building consistent with saying that the purpose of your franchise is to be a SC contender? I realize different people said those things (but from the same FO), at different times, in different contexts.

 

I think the statements can be reconciled. But it's a fair feckin' question. As in, what are we (they) doing here?

Edited February 2, 2016 by That Aud Smell

[darksabre]

Or death by a million bitter posts tearing down a team you claim to love, but despise at every turn, regardless if they actually did anything despiteful in the first place. You admittedly knew this would be a "hot topic" because you enjoy being a troll. "Hot topics" don't originate from puff pieces in the travel section of local newspapers, unless someone is willing to bend and twist the situation to illicit that hot reaction you know all so well. That's the definition of a troll - a person who writes inflammatory posts to create a negative reaction. It is what you do. Some tolerate it. Some find it tiresome and get chased away.

 

If you can't stand the site then find something else that you do enjoy. It's not unprecedented. This is supposed to be a place of enjoyment and despite the constant animosity you show us - we do try to make this a place where everyone can enjoy themselves. How many people do you think have silently left because they no longer enjoyed the daily drumbeat of two guys endlessly ruining thread after thread bashing the front office? 

 

Although the phrasing of LGR4GM's outburst was inappropriate and was rightfully warned about it, I hope everyone stops for a second to think about WHY he reacted like that. It wasn't random. He doesn't have Turrets. There are two sides to every story. He happened to have reached the end of his tolerance for those juicy "hot topics" like scores of others before him. Most others just log-off and leave... many for good. Just give that a thought. Not everyone has the ability to dismiss this junk every day, forever.

 

I spoke to Mike Gilbert tonight. You know - to actually get some facts instead of building a daily straw man to knockdown and piss the word "Pegulaville" over it. (Everyone knows the original poster certainly meant "Pegulaville" as a term of endearment, not derision - right? Because what type of person would deride the attempted rebirth of a region that is going on in Buffalo? Something to ponder.) Anyways...

 

The author, Lorne, is from Buffalo, who lives in Toronto. As a freelance writer, he probably gets about $100 an article. He got an idea for easy money writing a puff piece for the travel section of the online paper for Hamilton and gave Mike a call 2 months ago asking if he could come in and get some information about the Harborcenter.

 

Mike said:

 

- Lorne contacted him two months ago and requested information regarding a local destination travel piece he was writing (He was probably home for Thanksgiving as he is from Buffalo but lives in Toronto)

- The Sabres did NOT initiate contact with Lorne.

- Mike sent him to a lower level employee who provided the details Lorne requested for his article. (If people are unfamiliar with the style of destination travel pieces - try reading some. It's formula. It sounded like a press release because that's the nature of the genre. The Sabres provided the information as requested, but Lorne was responsible for the final copy. If you don't like the fact that it sounded like a press release then blame him.).

- Lorne asked Mike a few questions because he wanted another voice for the article.

- The article does not say what question elicited Mike's response, nor did I ask Mike. (Probably an important fact before one criticizes the response. Not hard to imagine Mr. Travel writer guy asking a question specifically about Leaf fans that required him to directly answer about Leaf fans. A shocking assertion.). 

- Mike the VP of Public and Community Relations chose/choses to welcome all hockey fans to enjoy a game at Harborcenter. (It is what they do in community relations - welcome the community.)

- 18% of all sales come from SO/Hamilton. Most are Sabres fans (he presumes), but there are Montreal/Toronto fans too. Fans of the game are welcome. Period. (as if there is any other acceptable answer here from the Community Relations guy)

- Notes that atmosphere at the arena much more lively when the Leafs play and it makes for a better experience for everyone in attendance. (Kudos to those who mentioned this)

- He wishes all games could have a similar atmosphere, but recognizes that they don't.

- Says the Sabres lose money.

- Marketing department had nothing to do with that article. Strictly a Community Relations response to an information inquiry from a Toronto-based travel writer wanting to highlight the Harborcenter.

 

So, that's the big bad boogieman for you. Those incompetent front office buffoons... Two guys do their job in the least noteworthy way possible, one quotes the other (and edits to the greatest appeal of his target audience while not providing any context) and some see that as another opening to create a "hot topic" to cast another round of aspersions on the franchise. Because, you know, everyone goes waaaaaay out of their way to constantly crap on something they "love" - right?

 

My only question is what could possibly be next? The national anthem singer has already been outed as a problem. Hard-hitting travel writers have exposed the wretched underbelly of the beast. I'm guessing someone will notice Terry's farts smell like Philly cheesesteaks and not Frank's hot sauce. Selling out to the Broad Street Bullies? Who could possibly doubt it...

 

 

 

I just exchanged emails with Lorne Opler. I asked him specifically about the question/context around Mike's Stanley Cup dream killing words... The poor guy is rightfully confused as hell as to why anyone would require clarification on that article...

 

 

Apparently Lorne didn't find Mike's comments "indefensible"...

Excellent work done here if your goal was to completely miss the point. Seeking out the author and Gilbert doesn't solve the question at hand in this thread, regardless of what PA posted initially. The conversation has moved forward and you've evidently skimmed over it.

 

I will reiterate what Smell has also reiterated:

 

 

I do think this is getting lost in the sauce.

 

 

This, to me, was a valid line of inquiry: Should the Sabres FO be on record saying that they love Leaf fans being in their building?

 

While many of us probably have no problem with the Sabres courting fans from out of town and even from other teams, making them feel welcome, taking their money, there appears to be a contingent here (PA foremost) that thinks this is some kind of violation of team spirit. That the Sabres business priorities are taking precedent over their loyalty to the Sabres as a symbol of pride. This perceived lack of loyalty is being equated with a lack of real desire to see the team win. 

 

It's a philosophical question. The cold logic of business vs. the emotion of tribal loyalty. 

 

The only thing that matters is whether you're interested in exploring it or not. If not, then don't participate. 

[musichunch]

Well, then.

 

It's Scott's sandbox, as is often said

And I appreciate how PA's "I can't stand this site" line would irritate the operator. It chafed me a bit. A bit.

 

PA agitates and provokes, but I don't think be can so tidily be referred to as a troll. There's too much intelligence there.

 

In my experience, online communities need a provocateur or three to remain vibrant and varied. Otherwise, the conversation trends toward fairly uniform group think and constant thumbs up emojis.

 

If it were put to a vote: Is your online community better off with PA or without? I vote "with".

 

As for those who bruise so easily as to get chased off by an agile agitator such as PA? I mean - whaddayagonnado.

 

p.s. Gibby told you the Sabres lose money? Huh. I guess I haven't given that issue much thought in a while, given that Uncle Terry and Aunt Kim are in charge.

 

p.p.s. Such a staunch and rousing defense of the FO will tend to reinforce the speculation that the site has some sort of tie, official or un-, to the team itself.

 

Couldn't have said it better. It always seems to be the Anti-Pegula posts that make the mods go berserk. 

[That Aud Smell]

 

It's a philosophical question. The cold logic of business vs. the emotion of tribal loyalty. 

 

Hear, hear.

 

I'd posited upthread: Does this "love" suggest that, once a shiny new stadium is up and running in the First Ward, the masterminds at OneBuffalo will start pushing packages to Jets fans? Or, in our reconfigured AFC North, Steelers fans? Browns fans?

 

And I don't mean to suggest that that'd be a fundamentally bad thing. But it might prove to be a very interesting thing. Is this another Russ Brandon workaround for our modest little market?

Edited February 2, 2016 by That Aud Smell

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I really do think that SDS's post was over the top.

 

PA starts discussions and contributes to other discussion based on his fandom and his desire for the Sabres to do well and win a cup.  It is perfectly acceptable to me and is desirable to question management / ownership desire to win a cup when said owner has publicly stated that is the only reason that the Sabres exist complete with tears in eyes, but some actions do put that in question.

 

I would not be surprised if PA has logged off for the last time.

 

I do enjoy this site, but at times it is kind of out there.

[Weave]

Excellent work done here if your goal was to completely miss the point. Seeking out the author and Gilbert doesn't solve the question at hand in this thread, regardless of what PA posted initially. The conversation has moved forward and you've evidently skimmed over it.

 

I will reiterate what Smell has also reiterated:

 

 

 

 

While many of us probably have no problem with the Sabres courting fans from out of town and even from other teams, making them feel welcome, taking their money, there appears to be a contingent here (PA foremost) that thinks this is some kind of violation of team spirit. That the Sabres business priorities are taking precedent over their loyalty to the Sabres as a symbol of pride. This perceived lack of loyalty is being equated with a lack of real desire to see the team win. 

 

It's a philosophical question. The cold logic of business vs. the emotion of tribal loyalty. 

 

The only thing that matters is whether you're interested in exploring it or not. If not, then don't participate. 

 

A-freaking-men.

[K-9]

... While many of us probably have no problem with the Sabres courting fans from out of town and even from other teams, making them feel welcome, taking their money, there appears to be a contingent here (PA foremost) that thinks this is some kind of violation of team spirit. That the Sabres business priorities are taking precedent over their loyalty to the Sabres as a symbol of pride. This perceived lack of loyalty is being equated with a lack of real desire to see the team win. 

It's a philosophical question. The cold logic of business vs. the emotion of tribal loyalty. 

 

The only thing that matters is whether you're interested in exploring it or not. If not, then don't participate. 

The idea that business logic and loyalty to the fan base are mutually exclusive concepts is lost on me. Entirely. It's entirely feasible, indeed logical, that the Sabres would seek to maximize revenues AND build a winning team on parallel tracks. 

 

Welcoming fans of all hockey stripes is part of the equation, regardless of the misguided and naive notion that by doing so, the Sabres are not being loyal to their fan base. It's a childish notion, actually. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

[Weave]

Couldn't have said it better. It always seems to be the Anti-Pegula posts that make the mods go berserk. 

 

And also an interesting observation.  Posters can go into hysterical fits on and off for months and not get so much as a firm PM to behave until they'e littered a thread with profanities, but question whether courting rival fans is consistent with a stated desire to win big and you get threatened with the ban hammer.  i don't get it.

Edited February 2, 2016 by We've

[WildCard]

Losing PA would be a real kick in the dick. Especially after, you know, we lost Ghost, X, LabattBlue, and Liger and Webster with brief leaves. 

Edited February 2, 2016 by WildCard

[Weave]

The idea that business logic and loyalty to the fan base are mutually exclusive concepts is lost on me. Entirely. It's entirely feasible, indeed logical, that the Sabres would seek to maximize revenues AND build a winning team on parallel tracks. 

 

Welcoming fans of all hockey stripes is part of the equation, regardless of the misguided and naive notion that by doing so, the Sabres are not being loyal to their fan base. It's a childish notion, actually. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

I agree.  But that idea is also a worthy point of conversation.

[darksabre]

The idea that business logic and loyalty to the fan base are mutually exclusive concepts is lost on me. Entirely. It's entirely feasible, indeed logical, that the Sabres would seek to maximize revenues AND build a winning team on parallel tracks. 

 

Welcoming fans of all hockey stripes is part of the equation, regardless of the misguided and naive notion that by doing so, the Sabres are not being loyal to their fan base. It's a childish notion, actually. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

I'll echo weave. I agree with you. But others don't. I think it's worth exploring the "why". 

 

I was going to ignore this thread until a legitimate question presented itself. Now I'm interested. 

Edited February 2, 2016 by d4rksabre

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Losing PA would be a real kick in the dick. Especially after, you know, we lost Ghost, X, LabattBlue, and Liger and Webster with brief leaves. 

 

Not to mention Yuri, who choose to go out on his own terms in a real blaze of glory.

[K-9]

I agree.  But that idea is also a worthy point of conversation.

The Sabres have been aggressively marketing to Southern Ontario since their inception. Where has all this outrage been all that time or have Sabres fans always assumed that only Sabre fans inhabitant that region? 

[darksabre]

 

 

 

 

Hear, hear.

 

I'd posited upthread: Does this "love" suggest that, once a shiny new stadium is up and running in the First Ward, the masterminds at OneBuffalo will start pushing packages to Jets fans? Or, in our reconfigured AFC North, Steelers fans? Browns fans?

 

And I don't mean to suggest that that'd be a fundamentally bad thing. But it might prove to be a very interesting thing. Is this another Russ Brandon workaround for our modest little market?

 

Thought provoking. Personally, I think the team aught to do what it can to get fans in the seats and make itself money. And while the rebuild of the on-ice product is ongoing, certainly the business side of things doesn't have to delay itself. 

 

But there is something to be said for trying to strike the balance between the business side and the team spirit side. 

 

I'm curious to explore that balance. 

The Sabres have been aggressively marketing to Southern Ontario since their inception. Where has all this outrage been all that time or have Sabres fans always assumed that only Sabre fans inhabitant that region? 

Southern Ontario =/= "We love Leafs fans". There's a difference. And it's an important one to this particular discussion. 

[K-9]

I'll echo weave. I agree with you. But others don't. I think it's worth exploring the "why". 

 

I was going to ignore this thread until a legitimate question presented itself. Now I'm interested. 

The "why"? The "why" of "what", exactly? 

 

Is it the "why" would the Sabres pursue hockey fans of all stripes to attend games?

 

Or

 

Is it the "why" would Sabres fans think that is a sign of disloyalty? 

 

I submit the answers to both are obvious. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

[PromoTheRobot]

Please don't confuse healthy debate with paranoid delusion. There comes a point where all you are doing is looking for the monsters you are convinced are in your closet. Rather than accept the obvious evidence of no monsters, you construct outlandish yet barely plausible explanations why the monsters are really there.

 

Much of this behavior comes from a kind of "battered fan syndrome," where after years of bad management and outright criminal behavior, and vultures circling both pro franchises, we cannot accept it when fortune actually smiles on us.

 

Our benevolent owner is no longer acceptable. Their machinations are not trusted. He/she must now meet some level of unattainable purity, one that constantly shifts with the whim of certain "guardians of thought" who divine evidence of skullduggery in the most innocent transactions.

 

This what SS, and to a lesser extent, TBD have been to reduced to. It's as if us fans long for the days of woe because it defined us. Now we are lost.

Edited February 2, 2016 by PromoTheRobot

[darksabre]

The "why"? The "why" of "what", exactly? 

 

Is it the "why" would the Sabres pursue hockey fans of all stripes to attend games?

 

Or

 

Is it the "why" would Sabres fans think that is a sign of disloyalty? 

 

I submit the answers to both are obvious. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

The latter question. And I don't think the answer is obvious. 

[K-9]

Southern Ontario =/= "We love Leafs fans". There's a difference. And it's an important one to this particular discussion. 

Again, the idea of outrage over the statement "We love Leaf fans" is childish. Especially in the context of Gilbert's role in charge of community relations. Absurd, really. 

 

GO SABRES!!!