Lehner's back: What happens?

[pi2000]

Oh, you mean like Ullmark in September?

 

Lets not pretend that Ullmark has been Hasek circa 1999 here; he had a good last two games but anyone who is splitting time with Chad Johnson is not so good that they have to keep him up here. This is better for his development anyways; let him be the man in the AHL for a year, then when Johnson's contract is up he comes up. If Lehner hasn't proven himself by then, well then we have a goalie competition on our hands.

 

Lehner and Ullmark have virtually identical career NHL statistics.   The only difference is that Lehner has played 70 more games and is 2 years older.    There's half a season left, Buffalo is coming of two solid road wins with Ullmark playing very well.   Hockey is streaky sport, don't with the lineup when you've just started a winning streak, especially by bringing in an unproven goalie who hasn't played in a year and who's ceiling may only be marginally higher than the young guy you're cutting from the team.

 

At least give Lehner another weekend of games in Roch (he has 14 days as per the rules)... after all, what's the rush to get him back?   To stroke GMTMs ego?    Is that what this is now... all about GMTM being able to say "I told you so!" on this Lehner deal?   Is that the kind of GM we have?   I hope not.

[Doohicksie]

The best thing to do when the team finally wins a couple of games........................... mess up the combination. Way to go guys. I'm beginning to think this organization really doesn't want to win.

This year, no. But I can see where playing Lehner now will be good for the long term. Lehner could be awesome once he gets up to speed, so you might as well see what you've got. In the meantime, the rest of the team can learn to protect a weak goalie. If they learn how to do that, how much better do they get when they have a good goalie?

 

This year is not about playoffs, or tanking. It's about development and playing with Lehner could help that.

[WildCard]

How is bringing back your #1 goalie a tank move?

Edited January 14, 2016 by WildCard

[TrueBlueGED]

How is bringing back your #1 goalie a tank move?

Risidual anger over spending a 1st round pick on a guy most felt wasn't worth a 1st round pick.

[Doohicksie]

... after all, what's the rush to get him back? To stroke GMTMs ego? Is that what this is now... all about GMTM being able to say "I told you so!" on this Lehner deal? Is that the kind of GM we have? I hope not.

Maybe it's about GMTM determining what he has.

[sabills]

Lehner and Ullmark have virtually identical career NHL statistics.   The only difference is that Lehner has played 70 more games and is 2 years older.    There's half a season left, Buffalo is coming of two solid road wins with Ullmark playing very well.   Hockey is streaky sport, don't ###### with the lineup when you've just started a winning streak, especially by bringing in an unproven goalie who hasn't played in a year and who's ceiling may only be marginally higher than the young guy you're cutting from the team.

 

At least give Lehner another weekend of games in Roch (he has 14 days as per the rules)... after all, what's the rush to get him back?   To stroke GMTMs ego?    Is that what this is now... all about GMTM being able to say "I told you so!" on this Lehner deal?   Is that the kind of GM we have?   I hope not.

 

I think you and I have very different opinions about this seasons goals. I don't think Murray is worried about winning streaks.(Also, are we really calling 2 games a streak? I guess the way our latests seasons have gone it might be fair.) Not that he's trying to tank like he was last year, but the end results this year don't matter. You bring Lehner up because you want your guys to get used to playing with the guy who you believe is the #1 goalie for the future, and that is Lehner to Murray. You may think he's wrong, but I'm sure he doesn't care.

 

The point of this year is getting this team to grow together. Having them build chemistry with a goalie who isn't going to be on the team for a season or so is helping nobody in the long term. I get not wanting to mess with winning, but back to back wins in January when your team is in 28th place is not a reason to think the future is now.

[JJFIVEOH]

This year, no. But I can see where playing Lehner now will be good for the long term. Lehner could be awesome once he gets up to speed, so you might as well see what you've got. In the meantime, the rest of the team can learn to protect a weak goalie. If they learn how to do that, how much better do they get when they have a good goalie?

 

This year is not about playoffs, or tanking. It's about development and playing with Lehner could help that.

 

Won't mean anything when he starts to unload players................again.................and everybody's getting used to all new linemates next year................again.............. all while they fail to win again next year because there is no level of cohesiveness and management is sitting around scratching their heads trying to figure out why so much talent can't win games.

[Doohicksie]

Lehner starts. The Big Johnson is the backup. Linus "The One" Ullmark gets seasoning in the AHL.

 

I can't possibly imagine any other scenario.

And so it has come to pass. Lehner called up, Linus to the A. Edited January 14, 2016 by The Big Johnson

[clintwestwood]

Lehner and Ullmark have virtually identical career NHL statistics.   The only difference is that Lehner has played 70 more games and is 2 years older.    There's half a season left, Buffalo is coming of two solid road wins with Ullmark playing very well.   Hockey is streaky sport, don't ###### with the lineup when you've just started a winning streak, especially by bringing in an unproven goalie who hasn't played in a year and who's ceiling may only be marginally higher than the young guy you're cutting from the team.

 

At least give Lehner another weekend of games in Roch (he has 14 days as per the rules)... after all, what's the rush to get him back?   To stroke GMTMs ego?    Is that what this is now... all about GMTM being able to say "I told you so!" on this Lehner deal?   Is that the kind of GM we have?   I hope not.

That's definitely not the GM we have. The team, GMTM included, wants the #1 depth chart goalie back to see what he's made of. If they kept Lehner in the AHL for the weekend, and Ullmark plays well tomorrow and Saturday, then what? Does Lehner ride the bench until Ullmark has a bad game? Lehner was #1 coming in to the season. An injury isn't going to and shouldn't cost him that spot, poor play is. Has nothing to do with an ego. This is the best thing for both goalies in my opinion. Lehner deserves a chance to prove himself, and Ullmark's natural talent is undeniable but giving him an opportunity to smooth out the rougher edges in the AHL will be really good for him.

[WanderingEye]

Lehner's AHL conditioning numbers look a lot like his NHL preseason numbers, which sucked. I don't think he's gonna get a lot of slack from the majority of the fans especially with his price tag.

[MattPie]

Lehner's AHL conditioning numbers look a lot like his NHL preseason numbers, which sucked. I don't think he's gonna get a lot of slack from the majority of the fans especially with his price tag.

 

I think he was coming off injury in the preseason too. I'm willing to give him some slack since it's not like this year is playoffs or bust for me.

[beerme1]

Lehner's AHL conditioning numbers look a lot like his NHL preseason numbers, which sucked. I don't think he's gonna get a lot of slack from the majority of the fans especially with his price tag.

 

True but not fair to him. And he will take some time to get back up to speed for sure. I do expect him to be our number 1 for a long time so I guess I'm biased. I like Linus too and if he pushes Lehner for number 1 when he's here I think that's a good problem to have. I don't think that time is now. Linus needs to figure out how to control rebounds a lot better than he does for instance.Playing time will help that although I'm sure that will piss somebody off in Roch too.

[Norcal]

What happens if Lehner goes on a run similar to the hamburgler or Dubnyk last year? Nobody thought that would happen but guess what, it did. Why not Buffalo?

[pi2000]

That's definitely not the GM we have. The team, GMTM included, wants the #1 depth chart goalie back to see what he's made of. If they kept Lehner in the AHL for the weekend, and Ullmark plays well tomorrow and Saturday, then what? Does Lehner ride the bench until Ullmark has a bad game? Lehner was #1 coming in to the season. An injury isn't going to and shouldn't cost him that spot, poor play is. Has nothing to do with an ego. This is the best thing for both goalies in my opinion. Lehner deserves a chance to prove himself, and Ullmark's natural talent is undeniable but giving him an opportunity to smooth out the rougher edges in the AHL will be really good for him.

 

Why are we under the impression Lehner (when completely healthy) is better than the current version of Ullmark?    Their career NHL stats are virtually identical, the only difference Lehner has played 70 more games.

 

So the upside with Lehner (when he's healthy and on his game) is the same production we're currently getting from Ullmark.     At best Lehner is going to prove he's just as good as Ullmark.   At worst (and most likely scenario) he'll show that he's an uhealthy, rusty version of Ullmark.

[nfreeman]

Lehner and Ullmark have virtually identical career NHL statistics.   The only difference is that Lehner has played 70 more games and is 2 years older.    There's half a season left, Buffalo is coming of two solid road wins with Ullmark playing very well.   Hockey is streaky sport, don't ###### with the lineup when you've just started a winning streak, especially by bringing in an unproven goalie who hasn't played in a year and who's ceiling may only be marginally higher than the young guy you're cutting from the team.

 

At least give Lehner another weekend of games in Roch (he has 14 days as per the rules)... after all, what's the rush to get him back?   To stroke GMTMs ego?    Is that what this is now... all about GMTM being able to say "I told you so!" on this Lehner deal?   Is that the kind of GM we have?   I hope not.

 

Generally I think your hockey insights are very good, but this is a fairly hysterically stated straw man.

 

Why are we under the impression Lehner (when completely healthy) is better than the current version of Ullmark?    Their career NHL stats are virtually identical, the only difference Lehner has played 70 more games.

 

So the upside with Lehner (when he's healthy and on his game) is the same production we're currently getting from Ullmark.     At best Lehner is going to prove he's just as good as Ullmark.   At worst (and most likely scenario) he'll show that he's an uhealthy, rusty version of Ullmark.

 

No.  That is not Lehner's upside.  You cannot possibly determine Lehner's upside based on that small of a sample size. 

 

Lehner's upside is that he could be a no-BS very good #1 NHL goalie -- and an NHL GM, who's seen him play a ton of games, thinks he can get there.  And since he's physically ready to return, we might as well start seeing as much of him as possible so we can figure out whether he can reach his potential.

 

As for Ullmark, he's not being "cut" from the team.  The Sabres are keeping his rights and putting him in the A, where he'll get a ton of work and develop into a better goalie.

[Brawndo]

Maybe it's about GMTM determining what he has.

Exactly

[dudacek]

I would hope that Lehner's ceiling is better than what we've seen from Ullmark this year.

I would doubt that we will see Lehner's ceiling any time soon.

[MattPie]

Why are we under the impression Lehner (when completely healthy) is better than the current version of Ullmark?    Their career NHL stats are virtually identical, the only difference Lehner has played 70 more games.

 

So the upside with Lehner (when he's healthy and on his game) is the same production we're currently getting from Ullmark.     At best Lehner is going to prove he's just as good as Ullmark.   At worst (and most likely scenario) he'll show that he's an uhealthy, rusty version of Ullmark.

 

We're not. Ullmark is waiver exempt, Lehner isn't. It really doesn't need to be more complex than that. The Sabres aren't going to squander assets to play the hot goalie in a borderline down season. They'd be stupid to lose Lehner or Johnson for nothing. And frankly, Ullmark shows promise but isn't playing so great that he's a slam dunk; his rebounds are horrible. Let him play in the AHL, give Lehner his shot, and then figure out what to do in the off season (or when Johnson, who is UFA, is traded before the deadline). It's better for the Sabres to know what they have at this point in the rebuild.

 

I suspect you're going to ignore the (IMHO) valid points I've brought up anyway, I think I'm out on this one.

[pi2000]

We're not. Ullmark is waiver exempt, Lehner isn't. It really doesn't need to be more complex than that. The Sabres aren't going to squander assets to play the hot goalie in a borderline down season. They'd be stupid to lose Lehner or Johnson for nothing. And frankly, Ullmark shows promise but isn't playing so great that he's a slam dunk; his rebounds are horrible. Let him play in the AHL, give Lehner his shot, and then figure out what to do in the off season (or when Johnson, who is UFA, is traded before the deadline). It's better for the Sabres to know what they have at this point in the rebuild.

 

I suspect you're going to ignore the (IMHO) valid points I've brought up anyway, I think I'm out on this one.

 

I know he's not released from the team, but he IS cut from the roster.    My point is why rush Lehner back when he still looks shaky?    He says he's still store in his interview today, and doesn't sound very confident at all ("...am I going to be perfect?  I don't know...  we'll see how it goes...").   They should've max'd out his time in Roch before bringing him back up.    Give him some confidence.     He was there for 8 days, they could've left him there for another 6 days which means another weekend of games to fine tune his technique and get his mind right.     Why not take advantage of that option?   

[WildCard]

Won't mean anything when he starts to unload players................again.................and everybody's getting used to all new linemates next year................again.............. all while they fail to win again next year because there is no level of cohesiveness and management is sitting around scratching their heads trying to figure out why so much talent can't win games.

You act like we're getting rid of ROR; you know, a real leader of the team that actually dictates the line's play. 

 

What exactly was Murray supposed to do these last two years? Frantically attempt to retain UFA's that wanted nothing with our tire fire in attempts to keep the locker room happy all while hoping the tire fire blasts a whole into the ozone large enough to drag McEichel through it? There has been no talent on this team the last 2 years, management isn't '[again] scratching their heads' as to why we're not winning, and they won't be doing it next season either. If they aren't winning next year, it's not because we've lost Jamie McGinn, it's because our defense lacks any real possession guys, we have 1-2 wingers, and our depth scoring is abysmal. Failing to address those, and utter regressions in the progress of our 4 rookies, will lead to the same season. All of which are perfectly correctable

[JJFIVEOH]

You act like we're getting rid of ROR; you know, a real leader of the team that actually dictates the line's play. 

 

What exactly was Murray supposed to do these last two years? Frantically attempt to retain UFA's that wanted nothing with our tire fire in attempts to keep the locker room happy all while hoping the tire fire blasts a whole into the ozone large enough to drag McEichel through it? There has been no talent on this team the last 2 years, management isn't '[again] scratching their heads' as to why we're not winning, and they won't be doing it next season either. If they aren't winning next year, it's not because we've lost Jamie McGinn, it's because our defense lacks any real possession guys, we have 1-2 wingers, and our depth scoring is abysmal. Failing to address those, and utter regressions in the progress of our 4 rookies, will lead to the same season. All of which are perfectly correctable

 

One, I wasn't complaining about not resigning FA's from the last two years. Two I didn't reference them scratching their heads the last two years. I was referencing the present and the future. Murray shouldn't be hitching about not winning when he can't keep half the team together for more than  a year. 

[WildCard]

One, I wasn't complaining about not resigning FA's from the last two years. Two I didn't reference them scratching their heads the last two years. I was referencing the present and the future. Murray shouldn't be hitching about not winning when he can't keep half the team together for more than a year.

Half the team blows, and Murray isn't bitching about winning Edited January 14, 2016 by WildCard

[JJFIVEOH]

We'll have to agree to seeing this in a completely different light. My gripe doesn't have as much to do with Lehner as it does with trade rumors, free agency and cohesiveness. So I'll keep this out of the thread even though it's already been derailed.

[shrader]

We'll have to agree to seeing this in a completely different light. My gripe doesn't have as much to do with Lehner as it does with trade rumors, free agency and cohesiveness. So I'll keep this out of the thread even though it's already been derailed.

 

 

Every single team has roster turnover from one season to the next.

[nfreeman]

I know he's not released from the team, but he IS cut from the roster.    My point is why rush Lehner back when he still looks shaky?    He says he's still store in his interview today, and doesn't sound very confident at all ("...am I going to be perfect?  I don't know...  we'll see how it goes...").   They should've max'd out his time in Roch before bringing him back up.    Give him some confidence.     He was there for 8 days, they could've left him there for another 6 days which means another weekend of games to fine tune his technique and get his mind right.     Why not take advantage of that option?   

 

Now this is a reasonable point.