Making a Murderer - Steve Avery

[CallawaySabres]

I know there is a tv show topic going on but this documentary is so disturbing on so many levels that I don't even know where to begin. Never before have I ever watched something that made my blood boil the way this series did. Not only do I pray that this guy gets out of jail (AGAIN), but I pray ever harder that the entire law enforcement agency involved burns in hell and loses everything in their lives someday. I could pick one of a 20 incredibly obvious lies and betrayals that would prove his innocence and somehow this jury chooses to overlook every single one of them. 

 

I don't even know which is more tragic, Avery or his mentally abused nephew going to life for prison. Nobody on a higher level will touch this case for fear of the repercussions that would follow. This is truly a very scary precedent and I can only wonder as to how corrupt government really is from top to bottom (I mean...waaayyy worse than I could have imagined).

[bcsaberks]

Just started the series the other day, completed episode 3 and very disturbed as well.  Will revisit this thread when complete.

[Huckleberry]

Its even making headlines over here, what a up

[bunomatic]

Watched the first 3 episodes last night. Really torn after that 3rd episode. Not sure how he can't be involved but I somehow wouldn't be surprised with police corruption and involvement with that squad. As Callaway alluded to I'm also blown away by how people who are lacking in the IQ department are taken advantage of and their rights are basically thrown out the window in the name of getting their man. The nephew in particular. 

[sabills]

I haven't started watching this because I haven't felt like being depressed yet, but I'm sure as February rolls in I'll get there. Has anyone watched this AND listened to Serial from NPR? They seem similar to me, which would be a very good thing.

[josie]

I think I'm broken. I've watched so many crime docs that I got bored seven episodes in. I suppose I just have little patience for court. I remember this case. Radiolab did an episode on that interviewed the lady who accused him of rape. It's a horrible story. 

 

I greatly dislike dealing in uncertainties, which is the entirety of this case. I am a massive proponent of forensics, and I'm disgusted that the possibility of planted evidence seems so high. The prosecution declined to work with the documentary, but I'd like to hear their side as well. I don't feel I can judge without all the gathered information in front of me.

 

The footage of the nephew's "confession" is blood chilling. A case of cramming square pegs in round holes to make the puzzle pieces fit. Certainly damns the prosecution. 

 

I'll go back and finish it up at some point.

 

Another good doc series is Jinx, about Robert Durst. Check it out if you haven't, you can see it all on dailymotion for free. 

[musichunch]

I've watched about half of it so far. The entire situation is REALLY bad and it's beautiful that karma is turning on that entire department. 

 

Don't forget the reason the murder charges happened: to avoid paying that $30M+. And like the defense attorney said, it's not about this one county paying $30M, but about every county having to pay $30M to every ex-convict they exonerate due to planting evidence or corruption. I can't even imagine how many men and women are in jail for crimes they didn't commit because the police department and prosecutors office wanted to make their jobs easier. 

 

I've been seeing "the other side" posts on Facebook, showing some evidence that makes Avery look suspicious. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but seeing how far the department went to frame him, I have no qualms about assuming that evidence is made up too. 

 

You don't need to be an empath to look at those police officers, sheriffs, prosecutors, and public defense attorneys to see what kind of people they are. I'm hoping some ambitious politician looking for votes will take on this cause now. Bravo to the filmmakers and bravo to Netflix. 

[chileanseabass]

One thing's for sure... Steve Avery had a killer curveball.

[CallawaySabres]

I've watched about half of it so far. The entire situation is REALLY bad and it's beautiful that karma is turning on that entire department. 

 

Don't forget the reason the murder charges happened: to avoid paying that $30M+. And like the defense attorney said, it's not about this one county paying $30M, but about every county having to pay $30M to every ex-convict they exonerate due to planting evidence or corruption. I can't even imagine how many men and women are in jail for crimes they didn't commit because the police department and prosecutors office wanted to make their jobs easier. 

 

I've been seeing "the other side" posts on Facebook, showing some evidence that makes Avery look suspicious. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but seeing how far the department went to frame him, I have no qualms about assuming that evidence is made up too. 

 

You don't need to be an empath to look at those police officers, sheriffs, prosecutors, and public defense attorneys to see what kind of people they are. I'm hoping some ambitious politician looking for votes will take on this cause now. Bravo to the filmmakers and bravo to Netflix. 

They will NEVER get out of jail, neither one of them. The only possibility would be for one of the cops to confess on his death bed and that's never going to happen.

[musichunch]

They will NEVER get out of jail, neither one of them. The only possibility would be for one of the cops to confess on his death bed and that's never going to happen.

 

Why do you think? You don't think the national tide could force an investigation, retrial, or acquittal?

[CallawaySabres]

Why do you think? You don't think the national tide could force an investigation, retrial, or acquittal?

Not a chance, the corruption runs way too deep on this one and the ripple effect it would have on law enforcement and government.....they'll never let it happen. It's going to have to take an officer coming forward

[JJFIVEOH]

I see there are 11 episodes. Is that the end or are there more? Is it a series or a multi-part documentary?

[musichunch]

Not a chance, the corruption runs way too deep on this one and the ripple effect it would have on law enforcement and government.....they'll never let it happen. It's going to have to take an officer coming forward

 

Hopefully. We already have jurors coming forward.

 

 

The juror, Richard Mahler, who was released on the first day of deliberations for personal reasons, told Golodryga: “According to the evidence that I reviewed in the court room the six weeks I was there, it didn’t all add up.”

Mahler said he could understand why another juror is afraid for his safety. Mahler said he feared for his life during the trial and still does now. He told Golodryga that he has been “getting a lot of threats on social media.”

 

https://www.yahoo.com/katiecouric/former-steven-avery-case-juror-on-making-a-154605397.html

 

 

 

The filmmakers behind smash Netflix hit Making a Murderer revealed that a juror has come forward to say that Steven Avery was framed and that he was only convicted because the juror feared for his or her safety. 

 

Laura Ricciardi and Moira Demos, who spent nearly a decade making the true-crime documentary series, told the Today show Tuesday that after the show's Dec. 18 debut, a juror in Avery's case reached out to them and spoke at length about the case. 

 

"We were contacted by one of the jurors who sat through Steven Avery's trial and shared what us their thoughts and they told us that they believe Steven Avery was not proven guilty, they believe that Steven was framed by law enforcement," Ricciardi shared. "They believe he deserves a new trial, and if he receives a new trial, in their opinion it should take place far away from Wisconsin." 

 

http://www.people.com/article/steven-avery-juror-believes-he-deserves-a-new-trial

[bcsaberks]

I haven't started watching this because I haven't felt like being depressed yet, but I'm sure as February rolls in I'll get there. Has anyone watched this AND listened to Serial from NPR? They seem similar to me, which would be a very good thing.

Serial Season 1?  Similar in format and depth of coverage and court case/murder, but very different theme to me.   I think this one is about poor and uneducated being mistreated by the system.  Adnan was arguably privileged class.  Either way both excellent and time well spent.  

 

This one is depressing.  Sadness for the vitcim and family of course.  But the abuse of power, crystal clear motive to plant evidence, and weak case, how the ### they convict on that?  And said to be 7 "not guilty" at first vote.  Nuts.  Not to mention the kid.  I need to google for some balance at this point.

 

Coincidentally I have jury duty in a few weeks, looking forward to it.

[wjag]

This show has me really scratching my head,  Hooked first, and then hooked the wife.

 

I see soooooo many due process violations that go unchecked ....

 

I'm going to stay out of here until I am done.

Would really love to hear a criminal lawyers  perspective on this. 

[DirtDart]

I know there is a tv show topic going on but this documentary is so disturbing on so many levels that I don't even know where to begin. Never before have I ever watched something that made my blood boil the way this series did. Not only do I pray that this guy gets out of jail (AGAIN), but I pray ever harder that the entire law enforcement agency involved burns in hell and loses everything in their lives someday. I could pick one of a 20 incredibly obvious lies and betrayals that would prove his innocence and somehow this jury chooses to overlook every single one of them. 

 

I don't even know which is more tragic, Avery or his mentally abused nephew going to life for prison. Nobody on a higher level will touch this case for fear of the repercussions that would follow. This is truly a very scary precedent and I can only wonder as to how corrupt government really is from top to bottom (I mean...waaayyy worse than I could have imagined).

Stayed up until 2 am last night watching episode 3/4. Addicting, and very odd story.

[sabills]

Serial Season 1?  Similar in format and depth of coverage and court case/murder, but very different theme to me.   I think this one is about poor and uneducated being mistreated by the system.  Adnan was arguably privileged class.  Either way both excellent and time well spent.  

 

This one is depressing.  Sadness for the vitcim and family of course.  But the abuse of power, crystal clear motive to plant evidence, and weak case, how the ### they convict on that?  And said to be 7 "not guilty" at first vote.  Nuts.  Not to mention the kid.  I need to google for some balance at this point.

 

Coincidentally I have jury duty in a few weeks, looking forward to it.

 

You might be able to get out of it by saying you've watched this show and no longer trust the legal system.

 

Ok, I'm leaving this thread til I finish the show. I have a feeling I'm going to watch it all once I start.

[deluca67]

The wife and I binged watched this over the Christmas weekend. My wife works for a defense attorney and at points during the series she was brought to tears and other times she was so angry and frustrated we had to pause the show. 

 

There is no doubt that Sgt. Colborn was in possession of the vehicle after the victim went missing and days before it was "discovered." Add in the fact that a previous blood sample had been tampered with it is astounding the convictions were not overturned. There should be a US Justice department investigation of the entire Wisconsin judicial system. 

[CallawaySabres]

The thing that passes me off the most is that even IF they get out of jail, nothing will end up happening to the wrong doers. ..I'd be fine with death penalty

[bunomatic]

O.K. I watched episodes 4 through 8 last night. I know , get a life right ? I'll watch the rest tonight but it'll be tough when its obvious what the outcome is already. This whole trial stinks to high heaven as does the criminal justice system. So many questions. The one thing the success of this documentary has done is brought an avalanche of attention to this situation which I think is very bad indeed for this town and its law enforcement. Dan Auerback of the Black Keys and the Arcs watched it,  had two sleepless nights then wrote and recorded a new song about this case. These cops wanted Steve Avery to just disappear but now he's in their face along with a large portion of the North American viewing audience. Apparently the group Anonymous has posted some demands about the series and the plight of Steve Avery. And its getting bigger. Props to the filmmakers. 

[Claude_Verret]

Just finished the series and WTF?????

 

As a scientist I'm only commenting on the hard science evidence and not the rest of the mountain of head scratchers presented in this series.

 

EDTA detection in blood.  The FBI developed and validated a brand new EDTA test with adequate sensitivity in the span of two weeks?  I call huge BS here.  I'd be very interested to hear about the method development that was used, because if it were me I'd take known EDTA and non-EDTA blood samples and apply them to a RAV4 interior, let them dry and sit for the same amount of time they did in the RAV4 until they were sampled and test those to determine a limit of detection for the assay.  Additionally they would need to perform this with EDTA blood that was years old just like the EDTA blood in the Avery sample vial that was tampered with.  I cant remember the exact timeline between the victims disappearance and the discovery of the RAV4 (3 days?), but whatever it was you can deduct that from the 2 weeks they claim they had to develop the test, as you'd need to account for any possible environmental degradation of EDTA due to drying and exposure to temperature, sunlight etc.  In short, there's a reason this type of evidence hadn't been used in any case since the OJ trial, and they developed a validated an assay in two weeks?  This doesn't even get into the ridiculous extrapolation the prosecutions expert witness made about the three untested samples having no detectable EDTA only because the other thee didn't.  I'm going to use that at my next group meeting... all 10 flu samples were negative, but I only tested five.  I know the other five are negative because the five I tested came up negative.  I'd be walked out the door immediately presenting that type of idiocy.

 

The victims DNA found on the bullet fragment in the garage.  This is an absolute jaw dropper.  The scientist that ran the test contaminated the negative "manipulation" control.  By their own protocol this requires that the test is declared INVALID.  Invalid means all results are unreliable and not to be used.  How this was allowed to be used as evidence is total and complete BS.  Beyond that, from my own experience running tests similar in nature I'm curious how the scientist had no remaining sample to run the test again? Typically a DNA extraction would most likely be in volumes in the neighborhood of 0.5 ml, and the volume required to run a test would be a very small fraction of that volume, perhaps 0.05 ml at most.  I'd be very interested to have access to the transcripts to see if Avery's lawyers did more probing as to why more sample was not available.

 

WTF?????

[Thwomp!]

Watched the first episode last night because literally everyone is talking about this show.  Wow.  It lived up to the hype.  I can't wait to watch the rest, but I am thoroughly disgusted with the legal system already.  I can't believe what they were allowed to get away with.  Now just think how many thousands of times this has happened in other places around the country.  This is unfortunately just the tip of the iceberg.

[musichunch]

Not a chance, the corruption runs way too deep on this one and the ripple effect it would have on law enforcement and government.....they'll never let it happen. It's going to have to take an officer coming forward

 

Your words continue to be true. 

 

There has been a trend of pop culture blogs writing stories in the tone of "Stop Petitioning the White House, It's Dumb". 

 

 

 

From Steven Avery to Justin Bieber: It’s time to cool it with the White House petitions

 

http://www.avclub.com/article/steven-avery-justin-bieber-its-time-cool-it-white--230430

 

The logic being that Obama can't pardon Avery, only the state can. 

 

What bothers me deeply about these reverse-knee-jerk stories is that it misses the point completely. People are trying to do whatever they can about this injustice, and by petitioning they are hoping that our elected officials will figure out themselves how to move this case along. I mean, that is why we hire them right? Who cares if it's the state that needs to pardon Avery, then have the White House transfer the damn petition to the state then. Why do we need the AV Club to tell us what we need to do? And make us feel like idiots about it. 

 

Growing up as kids, what did they teach us about making change in the Country? Vote, sign petitions, and write letters to your Congressman. Well, that's what people are doing. What else can people do other than that? Why should a regular citizen need to learn the intricacies of the Wisconsin legal system in order to voice their displeasure?

 

These articles remind me of the scene in Ikiru where they tell those mothers to keep going to different departments until they get so sick of the bureaucracy that they quit their cause. 

 

There has been a strange silence from the media on the Avery case. Oh, there has been buzz of course, but the outrage in the media pales compared to the outrage on social media. It seems that the Avery case is considered more pop culture, celebrity, sideshow entertainment rather than a 2016 Trial of the Century it should be. 

 

 

Ultimately, as Americans and as denizens of the internet, we can spend our leisure time however we please. If we want to park our ###### on our couches and watch 10 hours of well-made dramatic television about a guy who may or may not have been wrongfully convicted of murder, more power to us. And if we then want to fill in a quick web form urging our president to pardon some guy we saw on TV, great. That’s perfectly legitimate.

It’s not productive, though. It’s a Band-Aid on a hole in the dam. Clicking a We The People petition might make us feel a little better about ourselves—like we didn’t just spend our entire day idly scrolling through Tumblr and analyzing which of our high school classmates has aged the best—but it won’t make for actual change. And the thing is, actual change is not out of reach. It’s negligibly harder to email Brad Schimel than it is to email Barack Obama, and it’s only slightly harder still to kick your Starbucks money for the day over to the Center For Wrongful Convictions. In all fairness, those outcries aren’t necessarily the ones you’ll see written about jokingly on sites like The A.V. Club. But the focused, thoughtful grassroots efforts are the ones that could ultimately make a difference in the lives of people like Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey.

 

Now you may agree with the AV Club on this one. But what's the goal of a grassroots campaign again? Isn't it to gain attention from politicians and media outlets like the AV Club? Isn't the 10 part Netflix documentary a pretty good example of a grassroots campaign? So why isn't the AV Club taking up the cause of Steven Avery but instead putting the issue back in the public's lap?

 

Does anybody else see the circular logic here? The AV Club has more power to push this Avery case along than any single Joe Schmo reading the site, yet they're tossing the hot potato back to us. 

 

If the media's true goal is money and eyeballs, then why aren't they milking this Avery thing for all that it's worth? The interest is there, the scandal is there, the heroes and the villains are there, the polarization is there. Why are they more interested in Leonardo DiCaprio giggling at Lady Gaga at the Golden Globes? The reporting to national interest ratio is off and it stinks of censorship and belittling of the public opinion.

 

Where's the NY Times here? Washington Post? Why do I need to read articles on Entertainment Weekly to learn about the case? 

 

The traditional media is the voice of the people. Not social media. 70% of the public may be in favor of a cause, but if the media makes them feel like a minority, nothing will happen. And those 30% against would be happy to switch if they heard they were in fact in the minority. 

 

The problem is not that the public is sending petitions to the wrong mailbox, the problem is that the media is not taking up this cause for either legitimate or shady reasons IMO. 

Edited January 11, 2016 by musichunch

[bcsaberks]

The wife and I binged watched this over the Christmas weekend. My wife works for a defense attorney and at points during the series she was brought to tears and other times she was so angry and frustrated we had to pause the show. 

 

There is no doubt that Sgt. Colborn was in possession of the vehicle after the victim went missing and days before it was "discovered." Add in the fact that a previous blood sample had been tampered with it is astounding the convictions were not overturned. There should be a US Justice department investigation of the entire Wisconsin judicial system. 

How did you arrive at this?  From the radio communications where he confirms the plate?  Just curious cause to me it seemed that suggestion by Defense was pretty weak, he could have just been confirming with base "here's what we are looking for..right?".  

 

I keep going back and forth on his guilt.  The x62 / towel creepy stuff, the history of violence.  He was about to get paid, he was pumped, f-it, above the law.  Party time!  That type of thing.  But man that case is weak and that sheriff office/da sucks so bad.

[musichunch]

How did you arrive at this?  From the radio communications where he confirms the plate?  Just curious cause to me it seemed that suggestion by Defense was pretty weak, he could have just been confirming with base "here's what we are looking for..right?".  

 

I keep going back and forth on his guilt.  The x62 / towel creepy stuff, the history of violence.  He was about to get paid, he was pumped, f-it, above the law.  Party time!  That type of thing.  But man that case is weak and that sheriff office/da sucks so bad.

 

Is that realistic behavior though? It's one thing to be a creep, but a whole other thing to be a corpse mutilator. Especially when you have zero history of that type of behavior. And that's considering those towel reports are for real, which should be noted considering how questionable all the other evidence is.

 

As for the 62 phone calls, do we know over what period? Over a week? Over a year? There's plenty of people I work with where I can easily have 62+ phone calls over the course of a year.