Bucky: Pegulas in over their heads

[Taro T]

I'd suggest that he is most definitely inept at present. And now we wait to see if he can learn (or be  taught), or maybe he stumbles his way into success.

 

Was she also on the call? In the room with Terry? Had they agreed to part ways with Rex before the call?

It seems (based on rumors circulating throughout the season & what was said to various outlets officially) that Ryan was on very thin ice. It seems reasonable that Whaley wanted Ryan out but expected the decision to be finalized post-locker clean out.

 

If everyone (w/ possible exception of RB; he's been mercifully quiet, maybe he really is getting moved to fixing the bench doors department rather than putting in input on the coach; will believe it when I see it) was on board w/ this being Ryan's last season then whether Whaley knew before it was official really seems to be moot.

 

What was Pegula supposed to do? He agreed w/ Rex to have him step down before the Jest game; & he presumably already knew Whaley's stance on the matter. Is anyone honestly arguing that Pegula should have told Rex "yeah, we both agree it's best you're gone today & you report to me & I know the GM wants you gone (or at minimum wants major changes to your staff &/or philosophy) but you aren't fired until I get a chance to have the GM (who never wanted you in the 1st place) tell me he's on board." !?!?!? :huh: Who treats people that way?

[dudacek]

Just because the narrative has been refined and clarified doesn't make the reality any less baffling or foolish.

 

1. Even if Ryan reported to the Pegulas (an unusual structure)

 

2. why wouldn't the owner(s) at least consult with the GM, who is presumed to be the most knowledgeable "football guy" on the team on firing the HC?

 

3. Why, even if they went ahead and fired the coach without asking the GM about, wouldn't the owners take the time to EXPLAIN to the GM why the coach was fired? The guy kinda should KNOW to understand the needs of the owners.

 

4. Why did the Owners take the advice of a FIRED coach regarding who should be interim coach without asking for the GM's opinion?

 

5. Why did Kim Pegula's own interview contradict Terry Pegula's account of how the Ryan firing went down? His narrative - it happened during the phone call between he and Rex - she said it was THEIR decision.

 

6. How can we spin it other than this is a poorly run team where the management team is excluded from critical operational decisions, apparently on a whim?

 

7. And that the GM has lost all credibility with both sports writers and the majority of the fan base as a result?

1. This is not "even if." The Bills management structure was clear from the Ryan hiring.

2. Under that structure, the Ryan hiring and firing was always Pegula's call and frankly not Whaley's place to comment on. Pegula made it clear he had been collecting the input of senior management personnel all season long on the team's performance in its various facets and used that to inform his decision.

3. Do you think it's possible that Whaley's reply to that question may not have been entirely forthright? It wasn't his call, he didn't have to explain it, so he didn't.

4. Because a) Rex saw the decision coming (so much that he asked about it), accepted it like an adult and behaved like an adult? b) Terry happened to agree with the opinion?

5. Because Kim and Terry had already spoken about the possibility and were leaning the same way, and because she is trying to send the message that she agrees with the decision?

6. Not saying whether this is or is not a poorly run team, but under the Pegula management set-up, Whaley was not Ryan's boss, he was his co-worker. Why is this so hard to understand? Is it common in your workplace for your boss to tell your co-workers they are considering letting you go?

7. The Bills lost credibility with the fan base about 10 years ago. Whaley has not won it back. As far as respect from Bucky and Sully, et al. Are you kidding me?

Edited January 3, 2017 by dudacek

[That Aud Smell]

It seems (based on rumors circulating throughout the season & what was said to various outlets officially) that Ryan was on very thin ice. It seems reasonable that Whaley wanted Ryan out but expected the decision to be finalized post-locker clean out.

 

If everyone (w/ possible exception of RB; he's been mercifully quiet, maybe he really is getting moved to fixing the bench doors department rather than putting in input on the coach; will believe it when I see it) was on board w/ this being Ryan's last season then whether Whaley knew before it was official really seems to be moot.

 

What was Pegula supposed to do? He agreed w/ Rex to have him step down before the Jest game; & he presumably already knew Whaley's stance on the matter. Is anyone honestly arguing that Pegula should have told Rex "yeah, we both agree it's best you're gone today & you report to me & I know the GM wants you gone (or at minimum wants major changes to your staff &/or philosophy) but you aren't fired until I get a chance to have the GM (who never wanted you in the 1st place) tell me he's on board." !?!?!? :huh: Who treats people that way?

 

I'm not sure what you're saying in response to the piece bolded above. My suggestion was that Terry and Kim had agreed prior to the call that they (Terry) should be prepared to separate Rex if the conversation took a certain direction, etc.

[Taro T]

I'm not sure what you're saying in response to the piece bolded above. My suggestion was that Terry and Kim had agreed prior to the call that they (Terry) should be prepared to separate Rex if the conversation took a certain direction, etc.

Pretty much agreeing w/ you. Sorry that wasn't clear.

 

Was further replying to those you were replying to that thought it's a calamity that Whaley wasn't explicitly told prior to the firing that it had happened.

[That Aud Smell]

^

 

Gotcha.

[PromoTheRobot]

1. This is not "even if." The Bills management structure was clear from the Ryan hiring.

2. Under that structure, the Ryan hiring and firing was always Pegula's call and frankly not Whaley's place to comment on. Pegula made it clear he had been collecting the input of senior management personnel all season long on the team's performance in its various facets and used that to inform his decision.

3. Do you think it's possible that Whaley's reply to that question may not have been entirely forthright? It wasn't his call, he didn't have to explain it, so he didn't.

4. Because a) Rex saw the decision coming (so much that he asked about it), accepted it like an adult and behaved like an adult? b) Terry happened to agree with the opinion?

5. Because Kim and Terry had already spoken about the possibility and were leaning the same way, and because she is trying to send the message that she agrees with the decision?

6. Not saying whether this is or is not a poorly run team, but under the Pegula management set-up, Whaley was not Ryan's boss, he was his co-worker. Why is this so hard to understand? Is it common in your workplace for your boss to tell your co-workers they are considering letting you go?

7. The Bills lost credibility with the fan base about 10 years ago. Whaley has not won it back. As far as respect from Bucky and Sully, et al. Are you kidding me?

 

The Buffalo News is trying to make an issue of that being some kind of revelation even though it was expressly stated at the time of the Ryan hiring.

[Jsixspd]

1. This is not "even if." The Bills management structure was clear from the Ryan hiring.

2. Under that structure, the Ryan hiring and firing was always Pegula's call and frankly not Whaley's place to comment on. Pegula made it clear he had been collecting the input of senior management personnel all season long on the team's performance in its various facets and used that to inform his decision.

3. Do you think it's possible that Whaley's reply to that question may not have been entirely forthright? It wasn't his call, he didn't have to explain it, so he didn't.

4. Because a) Rex saw the decision coming (so much that he asked about it), accepted it like an adult and behaved like an adult? b) Terry happened to agree with the opinion?

5. Because Kim and Terry had already spoken about the possibility and were leaning the same way, and because she is trying to send the message that she agrees with the decision?

6. Not saying whether this is or is not a poorly run team, but under the Pegula management set-up, Whaley was not Ryan's boss, he was his co-worker. Why is this so hard to understand? Is it common in your workplace for your boss to tell your co-workers they are considering letting you go?

7. The Bills lost credibility with the fan base about 10 years ago. Whaley has not won it back. As far as respect from Bucky and Sully, et al. Are you kidding me?

1. It's an odd structure that undermines the GM (whom Pegula claims he has so much faith in).  Unless Pegula's faith in Whaley is a lot less than he states. 

 

2.  It still makes no sense to not consult the most football knowledgeable guy on the team before you can the HC, at a cost of millions of dollars.  How is that a smart decision on the part of the owner?    That is, unless Pegula really doesn't trust Whaley's advice.   

 

3.  Of course it's possible.  Probable.  I'm just pointing out the logical inconsistencies in this tangled web of a narrative the Bills have spun.   Somebody is full of horse puckey.   Likely Whaley, since Whaley also contradicted Lynn's narrative about the Taylor benching, and Lynn seems more trustworthy, IMO.

 

4.  ????  Maybe Lynn WAS/IS the best choice - maybe it's a fantastic idea - but what savvy owner wouldn't run it by his highly knowledgeable GM first, before making it so? That's assuming Pegula thinks Whaley is knowledgeable - doesn't it make one think that perhaps Pegula's private opinion of Whaley is quite different than the company line he's spouting publicly?  

 

5.  Possibly. Or, just applying Occam's Razor, it's also equally possible someone is being deceptive.  T-Peg's saving face or ego?  "It's my decision and my decision alone, blah blah blah blah"

 

6.   I should have mentioned that Whaley wasn't even curious why Ryan was let go - or that the Pegulas didn't tell him. Isn't that kind of important for the GM to know, IF the GM is indeed the "go to" guy on the team that the owner claims he is?  LOL

 

7.  I should have stated - the Pegula ownership inflicted a huge black eye upon itself.   Wilson's regime, yeah, that had lost credibility.  Pegula had been chipping away at credibility - this shattered what remained.   This is a PR disaster.  Newspapers across the nation are criticizing the Bills front office, and the Pegulas handling of a straightforward situation.

 

Few fans or writers or sports commentators would disagree with Ryan's firing.    He was awful.  But the ham-handed unprofessional way it was handled, made what should have been a simple, understandable business decision (Ryan sucked) into a major controversy.  You'd think the 'marketing genius', Brandon, would have helped Pegula,  Whaley, and Lynn, with the PR aspects of it.  

[Huckleberry]

You shouldn't

 

I know, didn't feel right when I typed it, but still.

[dudacek]

Sorry Jsix, your arguments and the arguments of the talking heads are largely based on a lack of understanding of what Whaley's role was. They only stand up if Whaley somehow thought his job description was different than what Pegula thought it was.

[TheAud]

Danny had a hat trick against the Flyers at the Aud on March 8, 1981. The Sabres won 8-4 and Pete Peeters was in goal. It was a Sunday.

 

I'll have a reply to your question tomorrow.  I wrote something, but it's barely coherent at this hour. I also have (I think) a pretty incredible footnote on Gare's HT. Want to make sure my eyes aren't playing tricks on me.

Thank you for looking this up. So I was 11 years old. Seems like I was younger in my memory but it figures my friends parents wouldn't be bringing two 8 year olds out for a game. 11 year olds makes more sense. 8-4 really rings a bell but I am thinking we may have left the building before the 8th goal was scored. It may have even been Gare's hattie and we heard the horn go off as we walked out and then heard what happened on the radio. I could be dreaming that part,  I can't find a box score for the game (granted I only looked for 5 minutes). 

 

I couldn't recall the two Sabres who scored the play off hat tricks in the same game (I was in the middle of first stint overseas at the time and although I followed the Sabres closely, life was crazy) but I did recall the Lindy-Hitchcock feud in that series. 

 

God I miss the Sabres in the playoffs.