Terry Pegula - Rally the Owners to change the challenge rule

[TrueBlueGED]

I think Ullmark is better than Johnson, but he hasn't played better.

I love Pysyk. He has not, by any measure, played better than Gorges.

Gionta has had a ton of grief, more than anyone. Girgensons has had some murmurs. Not sure what measuring stick says Gionta has been much worse.

Kane's numbers and issues have been similar to Ennis. No one has started a Kane has to go thread.

Flip the goals and assists and Moulsons numbers are almost identical to St. Samson, who is apparently the second coming.

 

Maybe we are remembering different posts, but to me the trend is pretty obvious.

 

I never thought of you as much of a "show me the stats" kinda guy. But here we go.

 

http://war-on-ice.com/playertable.html?mansit=3&scoresit=1&homeawaysit=1&tablegroup=1&playoffs=All&names=&team=BUF&pos=5&start1=2015-10-01&xaxis=61&yaxis=96&caxis=4&saxis=103&mintoi=0&tab=2&usedaterange=0&start0=20152016&end0=20152016&end1=2015-12-14&splitseasons=1

 

Gionta much worse than Girgensons, Kane much better than Ennis, Reinhart (who received plenty of "I haven't seen him do much" criticism early in the season) much better than Moulson.

 

I mean, are you honestly and truly trying to support your argument by saying Moulson has been anything other than awful this year?

 

As for Gorges, I don't think he's been criticized much at all, so I honestly don't know why you're bringing him up relative to Pysyk. 

 

I'm not sure why, but recently you've seemed awfully ornery about this perception that veterans are being unfairly criticized and the kids are getting a free pass. You're framing it as A) unwarranted and B) unfair. I vehemently disagree with both of those (you may have a leg to stand on with Gionta, but in no world has his play warranted 20+ minutes and PP time), but perhaps more importantly, I don't think it's happening, and certainly not due to your "new/shiny and long term player" hypothesis as WildCard nicely refuted.

 

Lastly, on a purely conceptual level, is it really that out of line to be more forgiving of mistakes by rookies or second year players than those committed by guys who have been in the league for a decade?

[WildCard]

I never thought of you as much of a "show me the stats" kinda guy. But here we go.

 

http://war-on-ice.com/playertable.html?mansit=3&scoresit=1&homeawaysit=1&tablegroup=1&playoffs=All&names=&team=BUF&pos=5&start1=2015-10-01&xaxis=61&yaxis=96&caxis=4&saxis=103&mintoi=0&tab=2&usedaterange=0&start0=20152016&end0=20152016&end1=2015-12-14&splitseasons=1

 

Gionta much worse than Girgensons, Kane much better than Ennis, Reinhart (who received plenty of "I haven't seen him do much" criticism early in the season) much better than Moulson.

 

I mean, are you honestly and truly trying to support your argument by saying Moulson has been anything other than awful this year?

 

As for Gorges, I don't think he's been criticized much at all, so I honestly don't know why you're bringing him up relative to Pysyk. 

 

I'm not sure why, but recently you've seemed awfully ornery about this perception that veterans are being unfairly criticized and the kids are getting a free pass. You're framing it as A) unwarranted and B) unfair. I vehemently disagree with both of those (you may have a leg to stand on with Gionta, but in no world has his play warranted 20+ minutes and PP time), but perhaps more importantly, I don't think it's happening, and certainly not due to your "new/shiny and long term player" hypothesis as WildCard nicely refuted.

 

Lastly, on a purely conceptual level, is it really that out of line to be more forgiving of mistakes by rookies or second year players than those committed by guys who have been in the league for a decade?

In honor Star Wars week, those are indeed the stats I was looking for, thanks for that  :beer:

 

Good post. I think the Gorges blame dudacek is referring to is someone did start a thread on Gorges being worth anything, right around the time the Risto thread was up. I never really looked at it, and forgot what was in it, but here it is.http://forums.sabrespace.com/topic/23826-josh-gorges-valuable-contributor-or-liability/?hl=gorges

 

Ironically, I don't see anyone in that thread hating the play of Gorges, and both you and dudacek say you've liked his play. Probably explains why it only lasted a page, because there doesn't seem to be a debate. If I had to guess, I would assume Pysyk gets more praise because we haven't seen this extending play from him in the bigs yet, and he makes more flashy plays than Gorges whereas Gorges is just solid

[dudacek]

I never thought of you as much of a "show me the stats" kinda guy. But here we go.

 

http://war-on-ice.com/playertable.html?mansit=3&scoresit=1&homeawaysit=1&tablegroup=1&playoffs=All&names=&team=BUF&pos=5&start1=2015-10-01&xaxis=61&yaxis=96&caxis=4&saxis=103&mintoi=0&tab=2&usedaterange=0&start0=20152016&end0=20152016&end1=2015-12-14&splitseasons=1

 

Gionta much worse than Girgensons, Kane much better than Ennis, Reinhart (who received plenty of "I haven't seen him do much" criticism early in the season) much better than Moulson.

 

I mean, are you honestly and truly trying to support your argument by saying Moulson has been anything other than awful this year?

 

As for Gorges, I don't think he's been criticized much at all, so I honestly don't know why you're bringing him up relative to Pysyk. 

 

I'm not sure why, but recently you've seemed awfully ornery about this perception that veterans are being unfairly criticized and the kids are getting a free pass. You're framing it as A) unwarranted and B) unfair. I vehemently disagree with both of those (you may have a leg to stand on with Gionta, but in no world has his play warranted 20+ minutes and PP time), but perhaps more importantly, I don't think it's happening, and certainly not due to your "new/shiny and long term player" hypothesis as WildCard nicely refuted.

 

Lastly, on a purely conceptual level, is it really that out of line to be more forgiving of mistakes by rookies or second year players than those committed by guys who have been in the league for a decade?

Maybe this will better explain my orneriness

To me, the most disappointing Sabres so far are Girgensons, Eichel, Larsson, Pysyk, Moulson, Kane and Ennis.

Yet, to me, the most criticized are Gionta, Weber, Moulson, and Ennis.

The most likely to escape deserved criticism are Ullmark and Eichel and the most likely not to receive deserved praise are Gorges and Gionta.

 

No, I don't think it's really that's out of line to cut the kids more slack, but I do think it's wrong to pretend it's not there.

The dumping on Gionta after the offside while absolving Jack was rubbing salt in the wound.

[qwksndmonster]

Ironically, I don't see anyone in that thread hating the play of Gorges, and both you and dudacek say you've liked his play. Probably explains why it only lasted a page, because there doesn't seem to be a debate. If I had to guess, I would assume Pysyk gets more praise because we haven't seen this extending play from him in the bigs yet, and he makes more flashy plays than Gorges whereas Gorges is just solid

It's weird to think of anything Pysyk does as flashy.  He's a very poised guy with good passing skills, but he doesn't bring much offense and he's steady in his own zone at best. Pysyk is a nice possession player to have, but he's yet to distinguish himself as even a #4 defenseman.  Gorges plays the toughest minutes and has been solid as a rock.  That's so much more valuable than what Pysyk brings.

[Stoner]

Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly tells the Buffalo News the coach's challenge is part of an effort to make the game entertaining.

 

 

"...we are always seeking to make the game as entertaining as possible (as are our clubs). That leads to changes being made to the game when and as necessary, including even this year with the adoption of three-on-three overtime and the introduction of the Coach’s Challenge."

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly tells the Buffalo News the coach's challenge is part of an effort to make the game entertaining.

 

That's gotta be a joke, right?

[Stoner]

That's gotta be a joke, right?

Unfortunately, no. It is one of the few times in a game that people get riled up. Some of a perverse definition of entertainment.

[LTS]

Unfortunately, no. It is one of the few times in a game that people get riled up. Some of a perverse definition of entertainment.

 

So.. yea.  That's perfect corporate thinking.  Let's delay the game 8-10 minutes so fans get ticked off or cheer for 30 seconds because once play starts again they aren't going to care.

 

Yep.. awesome thinking.  This rule sucks.. pure and simple.  I don't care if the Sabres give up a goal because a guy was offside. There is no need to stop the game for extended periods of time just to see.  Move on.. ironically this is reducing scoring in a league that needs more of it.  Great choice!

[#freejame]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider-trading-do-coaches-like-the-challenge~795636Is there any way one of our Canadian members can give a quick recap of this video? It's blocked for me in the states

[NHLBUFF]

One has to believe they will be taking a long look at this in the off season. The average time it takes to get a review done is ridiculous. The offside challenge/rule needs to be edited or changed. Far too many times they are reviewing the offside looking to see if buddy's skate is a 1/32 inch off the ice, even for a split second. Not to mention it takes 15 minutes. Your a coach, your team is up 3-1 with 3 minutes to go in the third. your team gets scored on making it 3-2. Every single coach is throwing the challenge flag calling for offsides! the play looks blatantly onside but, oh wait, this guy's skate might leave the ice. when it's all said and done who cares if it's a good goal or not, they've lost all their momentum. I've seen it happen to many times. edit the rule and make it so the skate can leave the ice and still be onside, or take out offside challenge.

One has to believe they will be taking a long look at this in the off season. The average time it takes to get a review done is ridiculous. The offside challenge/rule needs to be edited or changed. Far too many times they are reviewing the offside looking to see if buddy's skate is a 1/32 inch off the ice, even for a split second. Not to mention it takes 15 minutes. Your a coach, your team is up 3-1 with 3 minutes to go in the third. your team gets scored on making it 3-2. Every single coach is throwing the challenge flag calling for offsides! the play looks blatantly onside but, oh wait, this guy's skate might leave the ice. when it's all said and done who cares if it's a good goal or not, they've lost all their momentum. I've seen it happen to many times. edit the rule and make it so the skate can leave the ice and still be onside, or take out offside challenge.