Tank 3.0

[Jsixspd]

Chicago never tanked.  They missed the playoffs 9 out of 10 years prior to their rise.  They were bad because they had an owner that made OSP look like a credit card addict.

A tank by any other name...

 

The point being - two godawful teams used accumulated draft picks, and under new ownership/ management, rebuilt from the ground up.  Let's call them rebuilds, rather than get derailed by semantics.  Chicago was in a bad way when Rocky Wirtz took over after his dad, "Dollar Bill" died;  as bad as the Sabres lowly state. .   

I'm just interested in seeing how our rebuild compares to Chicago's.  

Blackhawk's rebuild has been an unbelievable success;   and they've been a strong post season contender for the past 7 seasons.  

Chicago managed 88 points in their first rebuild season,   Sabres are at 42 after 46 games;  staying with that average, the Sabres hit 75 at the end of the season.   Doesn't look so far as if our rebuild is quite as successful as Chicago's.  It's a bit discouraging;  but perhaps the Sabres will improve their average of .91 points per game at this tie.     We hit 80 or higher, I'll be more optimistic.  

Edited January 20, 2016 by Jsixspd

[Crusader1969]

Ok.  Since I want an actual player back for him, and since that's not going to happen, it had better be a first round pick that Murray can use to trade for an actual player before the draft.  I have no interest whatsoever in trading McGinn for a NHLer in 2021.  Zero.

 

 

so  you are perfectly ok with keeping him around for the remainder of this year, not make the play-offs and see him walk for nothing in the summer? 

 

Just because you get a 2nd rounder for him - doesn't actually mean you have to use the pick, it can be traded, or perhaps you trade the prospect, or maybe the guy you draft in the 2nd round turns out to be the next ROR?

 

Also, can't believe the "love" for a guy who has 10 goals! At the end of the day - McGinn playing in the top 6 is an indictment on the Sabres current depth.

[TrueBlueGED]

Ok. Since I want an actual player back for him, and since that's not going to happen, it had better be a first round pick that Murray can use to trade for an actual player before the draft. I have no interest whatsoever in trading McGinn for a NHLer in 2021. Zero.

What if McGinn doesn't want to re-sign before free agency? There's no reason not to trade him at the deadline if that's the case. Same goes if he's willing to re-sign, but is seeking silly money.

[Eleven]

so  you are perfectly ok with keeping him around for the remainder of this year, not make the play-offs and see him walk for nothing in the summer? 

 

Just because you get a 2nd rounder for him - doesn't actually mean you have to use the pick, it can be traded, or perhaps you trade the prospect, or maybe the guy you draft in the 2nd round turns out to be the next ROR?

 

Also, can't believe the "love" for a guy who has 10 goals! At the end of the day - McGinn playing in the top 6 is an indictment on the Sabres current depth.

 

I don't see him as a top 6 forward, but I certainly see him as a great third liner.

 

I'm not sure what a second round pick buys in June.  Probably not much.

 

What if McGinn doesn't want to re-sign before free agency? There's no reason not to trade him at the deadline if that's the case. Same goes if he's willing to re-sign, but is seeking silly money.

 

If that's the case.  There's no indication that it is.  Also no indication that it isn't, I get it.

[TrueBlueGED]

so you are perfectly ok with keeping him around for the remainder of this year, not make the play-offs and see him walk for nothing in the summer?

 

Just because you get a 2nd rounder for him - doesn't actually mean you have to use the pick, it can be traded, or perhaps you trade the prospect, or maybe the guy you draft in the 2nd round turns out to be the next ROR?

 

Also, can't believe the "love" for a guy who has 10 goals! At the end of the day - McGinn playing in the top 6 is an indictment on the Sabres current depth.

And this is really my main concern about giving him a new contract regardless of whether we trade him first. I'm not sure he cracks the top-6 on a contending team, and whole he could play a 3rd line role I the abstract, he doesn't have nearly the defensive chops to play on Bylsma's 3rd line.

[Crusader1969]

If he doesn't play on the top PP unit and plays with Larrson/Girgensons instead of O'Reilly / Eichel. How many goals does he have? I'd guess 3 or 4.

 

I think we should be ecstatic that he has had a good enough season to get a 2nd rounder (potentially) for him.

[Stoner]

every team gets hot for a couple of games. Even the 14-15 sabres had a hot streak.

 

They are what they are - not quite a .500 hockey team and there is nothing wrong with that. Its great progress over last year.

Cue up the broken record. There is no point in comparing this year's team to last year's team. A historically bad team is not "not quite a .500" team. A team that was expected to be in the playoff conversation is not quite a .500 team, and that's a problem. They do look to be coming around though.

[Claude_Verret]

Cue up the broken record. There is no point in comparing this year's team to last year's team. A historically bad team is not "not quite a .500" team. A team that was expected to be in the playoff conversation is not quite a .500 team, and that's a problem. They do look to be coming around though.

 

The Sabres of 2015/16 were expected to be in the playoff conversation?  News to me.

[Crusader1969]

who the heck expected them to be in the playoff conversation? just because you did doesn't make it so! 

[MattPie]

Cue up the broken record. There is no point in comparing this year's team to last year's team. A historically bad team is not "not quite a .500" team. A team that was expected to be in the playoff conversation is not quite a .500 team, and that's a problem. They do look to be coming around though.

 

I'm not sure too many people outside area code 716 (and 814, hat tip to you) expected the Sabres to be in the conversation.

[TrueBlueGED]

I don't see him as a top 6 forward, but I certainly see him as a great third liner.

 

That's the problem, I think. If we assume Bylsma is going to be around for awhile, then McGinn has to be a top-6 player here to be useful. Going back to Pittsburgh, Bylsma uses his 3rd line in a highly defensive role, which is not McGinn's game, and it shows earlier in the year. McGinn wasn't doing squat until he was moved into the top-6.

 

So I don't think the question is whether you'd prefer McGinn or a draft pick, but rather, do you want to commit to McGinn as a top-6 player both in terms of roster spot and contract? I'd rather keep McGinn than get a pick, but I don't want to tie myself to him as a top-6 player either (especially if it requires Abdelkader money).

[That Aud Smell]

I don't know.  It's going to take two things:  (1) a team willing to give up a first for McGinn, and (2) a team willing to trade a player for a first over the summer.

 

I think #1 is pretty sure to be the case.

[Stoner]

The Sabres of 2015/16 were expected to be in the playoff conversation?  News to me.

All of my posts go to my legal eagles for review before publication; we stand behind "conversation."

[pi2000]

McGinn is getting traded, he's as good as gone, no doubt in my mind, and rightfully so.   

 

He will be a key piece for a playoff team looking to add depth to their lineup, so I expect at least a 2nd in return, which is fair.    A 1st just isn't going to happen.    But there's nothing that says he also can't be part of a larger deal for more significant pieces coming back in return.

[WildCard]

McGinn can fetch a first

[That Aud Smell]

McGinn can fetch a first

 

Yepper.

[Claude_Verret]

All of my posts go to my legal eagles for review before publication; we stand behind "conversation."

 

Ok, since the lawyers are involved... what you really meant was in the conversation of teams very likely to not make the playoffs, right? 

 

:nana:

[pi2000]

McGinn can fetch a first

 

No way.    A 15-18 goal scoring minus player doesn't fetch a first.

[qwksndmonster]

It depends on the deadline market. If Paul Gaustad is good for a late 1st...

[WildCard]

It depends on the deadline market. If Paul Gaustad is good for a late 1st...

Exactly. Pretty sure we spent a first on Zubrus too

[pi2000]

Exactly. Pretty sure we spent a first on Zubrus too

 

We only got a second for Stewart.   I don't think anybody will value McGinn higher than Stewart at that time.

[qwksndmonster]

 

And I'm with PA. This team has enough talent to be in the conversation. Maybe even to steal the #8 spot. Not with disappearing acts from 22, 26, 28, and 63; however. (I know Larsson and Zemgus have played better lately, but they were two of our better scorers last year)

We only got a second for Stewart. I don't think anybody will value McGinn higher than Stewart at that time.

Stewart has wheels and is good at punching people, and that's it. I don't think I've ever seen anybody so big so bad at battling for the puck. We swindled the Wild out of that 2nd. McGinn is 10 times the hockey play that Stewart is.

[pi2000]

And I'm with PA. This team has enough talent to be in the conversation. Maybe even to steal the #8 spot. Not with disappearing acts from 22, 26, 28, and 63; however. (I know Larsson and Zemgus have played better lately, but they were two of our better scorers last year)

Stewart has wheels and is good at punching people, and that's it. I don't think I've ever seen anybody so big so bad at battling for the puck. We swindled the Wild out of that 2nd. McGinn is 10 times the hockey play that Stewart is.

 

Yeah, I think McGinn is a better player too, but Stewart had more potential because of his size and the fact he scored 28 goals with the Avs when he was a 22 y/o.     Min was hoping he'd regain that form playing with better offensive talent than what the Sabres had to offer.... we all know how that worked out.

 

That said, McGinn is older and hasn't scored 20, he's been traded twice now and doesn't have great size or play a strong defensive game.     

[nfreeman]

No way.    A 15-18 goal scoring minus player doesn't fetch a first.

It depends on the deadline market. If Paul Gaustad is good for a late 1st...

 

IIRC, it was Gaustad plus a 4th for a 1st.  I could see something like that with McGinn, although it might have to be McGinn plus a 3rd.  Still worth doing.

[pi2000]

IIRC, it was Gaustad plus a 4th for a 1st.  I could see something like that with McGinn, although it might have to be McGinn plus a 3rd.  Still worth doing.

 

...and BUF has three 3rds this year, so I could easily see that happening.