GDT: Buffalo @ Vancouver, 10:00 pm est, 12/7/2015

[MODO Hockey]

I only saw 4 of them, I would say about 1.5, with either 1-2 depending on how harsh you really want to be on the guy. 

 

 

I'd say one and a half.

 

Ok, fair enough. 

 

Maybe if he had taken those the team could have recapitulate.

[WildCard]

I've been thinking on this and back to some of Bylsma's statements in the offseason about how he feels the hardest thing on a defenseman is to get him to turn around and chase the puck. Is it possible he's coaching these guys to back off to prevent forwards from getting the puck behind them and making them chase?

It could very well be, but I just don't agree with that philosophy. If you really do believe that is the hardest thing for a d-man to handle, and he might because he played in the league, then why not jam the guy at the line, force him to dump it, and then have the 2nd defender prepared to handle the dump. Because backing into the line may force them to not dump, but forcing them to dump is a hell of a lot better than 3 forwards entering the zone with time. Teams don't want to dump, because as annoying as it may be for a defender, it kills your possession and the retrieval of a puck a defender already has gotten to isn't easy or fun

[MODO Hockey]

Thanks for yet another well written thread WildCard. 

[Doohicksie]

I'll say this:  I'd rather watch them lose 5-2 than 3-0.  How many games were they shut out last year?  Even when they lose, they're usually scoring this year.

[WildCard]

Thanks for yet another well written thread WildCard. 

No problem. :beer: 

 

Turned out to be a pretty great GDT, even despite our play. 

[TrueBlueGED]

It could very well be, but I just don't agree with that philosophy. If you really do believe that is the hardest thing for a d-man to handle, and he might because he played in the league, then why not jam the guy at the line, force him to dump it, and then have the 2nd defender prepared to handle the dump. Because backing into the line may force them to not dump, but forcing them to dump is a hell of a lot better than 3 forwards entering the zone with time. Teams don't want to dump, because as annoying as it may be for a defender, it kills your possession and the retrieval of a puck a defender already has gotten to isn't easy or fun

 

Yea, I completely agree. If from an offensive perspective it's significantly better to carry into the zone than to dump it in, the inverse should also be true: the best defensive strategy is to force the dump in and handle it properly. 

[Doohicksie]

How many of the goals was on Ullmark alone? 

 

One.  The first goal came when he blocked a shot from the side directly into the slot to Vrbata who had the whole goal to shoot at.  (Some support from the team to neutralize Vrbata could have prevented it, but it was a bang-bang play.)  The rest he was pretty much hung out to dry.

[WildCard]

Yea, I completely agree. If from an offensive perspective it's significantly better to carry into the zone than to dump it in, the inverse should also be true: the best defensive strategy is to force the dump in and handle it properly. 

I'd kill to see the stats on dumping vs. carrying it in.

[TrueBlueGED]

I'd kill to see the stats on dumping vs. carrying it in.

 

Ask and you shall receive: http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/Using%20Zone%20Entry%20Data%20To%20Separate%20Offensive,%20Neutral,%20And%20Defensive%20Zone%20Performance.pdf

 

Because I'm lazy, I'll take the best quote from the abstract: "...carrying the puck across the blue line generates more than twice as many shots, scoring chances, and goals as dumping the puck in..."

[MODO Hockey]

One.  The first goal came when he blocked a shot from the side directly into the slot to Vrbata who had the whole goal to shoot at.  (Some support from the team to neutralize Vrbata could have prevented it, but it was a bang-bang play.)  The rest he was pretty much hung out to dry.

Jush wish he could be the difference between losing and winning .. 

[Thorner]

It means good things! Positive thoughts! I like it.

 

Honestly though I think his game really would benefit from some time on the wing to lessen the defensive responsibilities. I forgot who proposed it a few games back, but I'm on board with a McGinn-Girgensons-Eichel line for a little bit.

 

 

Ted Nolan would salute our compete.

 

It may have been me, I said a bit ago I wanted to see Jack on the wing. Today reinforced that for me. Seemed like it could have been his worst game as a pro. Definitely seems to be in a slump. He seems frustrated, he's losing his man in the defensive zone, (directly led to a goal today) and wasn't skating hard on the forecheck. Some time on the wing could potentially help a lot.

 

And I wouldn't break up the top line, it's pretty much all we have for scoring right now. Reinhart was one of the only Sabres that looked decent today. the kid is just a model of consistency at this point. Even when he is "off", he doesn't seem to make the glaring errors that stand out.

[WildCard]

Ask and you shall receive: http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/Using%20Zone%20Entry%20Data%20To%20Separate%20Offensive,%20Neutral,%20And%20Defensive%20Zone%20Performance.pdf

 

Because I'm lazy, I'll take the best quote from the abstract: "...carrying the puck across the blue line generates more than twice as many shots, scoring chances, and goals as dumping the puck in..."

Nerd in me just got way too excited at seeing that was 5 pages I can print out. Going to make my lecture on database relationships actually bearable tomorrow when I bring that sucker in with me instead. 

Where did you get that from btw? Do they do similar stuff like that routinely? 

Edited December 8, 2015 by WildCard

[Randall Flagg]

I'm in favor of reducing Jack's role and ice time for a bit as well. Maybe a game off.

[Doohicksie]

And I wouldn't break up the top line, it's pretty much all we have for scoring right now. Reinhart was one of the only Sabres that looked decent today. the kid is just a model of consistency at this point. Even when he is "off", he doesn't seem to make the glaring errors that stand out.

 

He doesn't have the raw speed that Eichel does, nor does he have the shot.  He occasionally misses a pass or doesn't execute the tip-in or whatever, but you *very* rarely see him make a mental error.  And the more he plays, the better his decision making gets.  To get a full appreciation for this, watch him without the puck and see how often he positions himself such that the pucks comes to (or at least near) him.  When linemates are playing below the goal, watch him position himself for a potential shot on net... or if the puck squirts away to an empty spot, how quickly he'll move from the net front to the boards to continue that cycle.  It's like the whole game is sequential to him and he puts himself in the spot to make the play as the natural chain of occurrences plays out.

[Thorner]

He doesn't have the raw speed that Eichel does, nor does he have the shot.  He occasionally misses a pass or doesn't execute the tip-in or whatever, but you *very* rarely see him make a mental error.  And the more he plays, the better his decision making gets.  To get a full appreciation for this, watch him without the puck and see how often he positions himself such that the pucks comes to (or at least near) him.  When linemates are playing below the goal, watch him position himself for a potential shot on net... or if the puck squirts away to an empty spot, how quickly he'll move from the net front to the boards to continue that cycle.  It's like the whole game is sequential to him and he puts himself in the spot to make the play as the natural chain of occurrences plays out.

 

I agree, well stated.

 

It's getting a little ahead of ourselves, but I think what this boils down to is the physical, detailed representation of what begins to develop into something we call "clutch". It's the science behind it: he just finds himself at the right spot, at the right time, so often. He doesn't always "jump off the page", but he's the kind of guy that just makes plays when it counts, it seems. And he can finish. Contrast it no further than Moulson's point blank chance today, near the end. Used to be he would bury those. Reinhart got one chance in tight today, and you better believe he was gonna bury it. Easier said than done with lots of guys, it seems.

[SabresBillsFan]

There is nothing on this planet that could make me want Myers back

Myers shot his load his rookie season and had done nothing since.

[thewookie1]

Reinhart and O'Reilly should invite Eichel to their O'Reilly practices, sure seems to be working wonders for those two.

[SabresBillsFan]

What's alittle disturbing to me is why is Reinhart the guy screening the goalie. It should be a ton of other players doing the same and being in and around that crease.

[WildCard]

Myers shot his load his rookie season and had done nothing since.

Easily my favorite saying about Myers

 

Reinhart and O'Reilly should invite Eichel to their O'Reilly practices, sure seems to be working wonders for those two.

We pay O'Reilly enough to handle two at once

[SabresBillsFan]

Reinhart and O'Reilly should invite Eichel to their O'Reilly practices, sure seems to be working wonders for those two.

Yeah no doubt. But am I the only one that sees if Jack turns it on each shift he could be a force. He seems to float around in those open areas which is fine but if we don't control the puck it's a problem. He just leaves you expecting more like the guy that could dominate but doesn't kick it up a notch.

[Doohicksie]

He just leaves you expecting more like the guy that could dominate but doesn't kick it up a notch.

 

We expect more because we've SEEN it.  I suspect his conditioning isn't up to NHL standards yet.  He can't go like the Energizer Bunny.  He sprints a few shifts, then he coasts a few shifts.  It's that lack of a steady rhythm that frustrates us as fans and probably confuses his linemates.  I expect this will be corrected at some point.  I'd love to know what Bylsma is thinking relative to Jack.

 

But at this point if I get a jersey soon it will be a Samson.

[SabresBillsFan]

We expect more because we've SEEN it. I suspect his conditioning isn't up to NHL standards yet. He can't go like the Energizer Bunny. He sprints a few shifts, then he coasts a few shifts. It's that lack of a steady rhythm that frustrates us as fans and probably confuses his linemates. I expect this will be corrected at some point. I'd love to know what Bylsma is thinking relative to Jack.

 

But at this point if I get a jersey soon it will be a Samson.

I like Reinhart and Jack but I would like another top pick added to this squad.

[dudacek]

I thought Sam and McGinn played well.

 

This, exactly. Not sure I could say that about anyone else.

 

He doesn't have the raw speed that Eichel does, nor does he have the shot. He occasionally misses a pass or doesn't execute the tip-in or whatever, but you *very* rarely see him make a mental error. And the more he plays, the better his decision making gets. To get a full appreciation for this, watch him without the puck and see how often he positions himself such that the pucks comes to (or at least near) him. When linemates are playing below the goal, watch him position himself for a potential shot on net... or if the puck squirts away to an empty spot, how quickly he'll move from the net front to the boards to continue that cycle. It's like the whole game is sequential to him and he puts himself in the spot to make the play as the natural chain of occurrences plays out.

Very well said the puck followed him around the O zone all night long.

And his board play was excellent in person, positioning and stick work.

 

Glad to see some Eichel criticism in the thread, because in person he was terrible. He was getting knocked around like a poindexter and outshone Gionta as the place where plays go to die.

 

It's a much different look ice level and I was wondering if you guys saw on tv what I saw.

 

I will,also say I was disappointed in Kane. Bad penalties and always yapping at the ref.

 

Not the game I was hoping for. To be honest it could have been the weakest match this year. Even the Canadiens blowout looked better.

Edited December 8, 2015 by dudacek

[Thorner]

I like Reinhart and Jack but I would like another top pick added to this squad.

 

Fair enough, but how do you plan on prying Marchand away from Bahston?

 

......Oh, you said "pick". Nevermind.

[Doohicksie]

Fair enough, but how do you plan on prying Marchand away from Bahston?

 

......Oh, you said "pick". Nevermind.