Tyler Ennis needs to go

[musichunch]

He hasn't been the same since getting manhandled a few games ago. He's lost some confidence to stand up for himself, and as a little guy, that's NHL suicide. Something nobody likes to talk about is that IME, people lose respect for the bullied party. For all this "stop bullying" talk, many people actually look down on those who don't fight back. It's a natural reaction. I think the fans are subconsciously feeling that too.

 

I thought he started the season out playing the best hockey of his life. He hasn't been the same since the injury and now he's lost some confidence. He's always been a passive personality, hell he looks like a million stoners I know, but I'm willing to give him until the trade deadline to prove himself again. 

[TrueBlueGED]

Come on man, stop teasing me. I need you to run the numbers. I have no idea how to manipulate War on Ice's data to fit my argument. :P

Just keep poking it until it tells you what you want.

[JJFIVEOH]

I just don't think it's possible to go without having the need for a whipping boy. This place just needs somebody to bitch about no matter the circumstances.

 

Gionta is happy somebody elee took over the position for now.

Edited November 21, 2015 by JJFIVEOH

[TrueBlueGED]

I just don't think it's possible to go without having the need for a whipping boy. This place just needs somebody to bitch about no matter the circumstances.

 

Gionta is happy somebody elee took over the position for now.

You're making it sound like ripping a player who is playing like dog poop automatically makes them a whipping boy. Ennis deserves to be criticized because of his play.

[JJFIVEOH]

You're making it sound like ripping a player who is playing like dog poop automatically makes them a whipping boy. Ennis deserves to be criticized because of his play.

 

So do many other players, but it seems like everybody focuses on one until somebody else takes over. Based on talent this team is playing worse than last year's team and it certainly isn't Ennis' fault.

 

If he hadn't gotten busted for offsides this discussion wouldn't even exist.

[TrueBlueGED]

So do many other players, but it seems like everybody focuses on one until somebody else takes over. Based on talent this team is playing worse than last year's team and it certainly isn't Ennis' fault.

 

If he hadn't gotten busted for offsides this discussion wouldn't even exist.

Moulson, Gionta, Larsson have all been criticized recently. There's even been hints of "what's wrong with Eichel" lately. Who do you think deserves some healthy criticism that hasn't gotten it? Most of the team is playing well IMO.

[tom webster]

So do many other players, but it seems like everybody focuses on one until somebody else takes over. Based on talent this team is playing worse than last year's team and it certainly isn't Ennis' fault.

 

If he hadn't gotten busted for offsides this discussion wouldn't even exist.

 

 

Huh? Playing worse? What have you been watching? Check out Matthew Coller's article I posted in 2015/16 line up thread. Ennis numbers have been noticed.

Read NHL.com talking about the Sabres' improvement. Read some of the opposing players comments. This team's improvement is being noticed.

Edited November 21, 2015 by tom webster

[JJFIVEOH]

Criticizing a player and making him the defacto whipping boy worthy of 30 posts per GDT are two entirely different things.

Huh? Playing worse? What have you been watching? Check out Matthew Coller's article I posted in 2015/16 line up thread. Ennis numbers have been noticed.

Read NHL.com talking about the Sabres' improvement. Read some of the opposing players comments. This team's improvement is being noticed.

 

How anybody can take any player, 19 games into a season with an entirely revamped roster, a new coaching staff and come to any conclusion is ridiculous. Especially one that's been through four coaches already and more teammates than a 10 year veteran.

 

I never said they haven't improved. I said relative to talent, they are worse. GDT's aren't worth keeping up on during a game because as usual this place needs something to bitch about regardless of how things are going. It gets old. I really shouldn't have expected it to change.

[tom webster]

Criticizing a player and making him the defacto whipping boy worthy of 30 posts per GDT are two entirely different things.

 

How anybody can take any player, 19 games into a season with an entirely revamped roster, a new coaching staff and come to any conclusion is ridiculous. Especially one that's been through four coaches already and more teammates than a 10 year veteran.

 

I never said they haven't improved. I said relative to talent, they are worse. GDT's aren't worth keeping up on during a game because as usual this place needs something to bitch about regardless of how things are going. It gets old. I really shouldn't have expected it to change.

I still don't get the relative to talent they are worse. Given your feelings about Ted Nolan I guess I shouldn't be surprised but I have to say you have to be the only person voicing that opinion right now.

It is like night and day watching this team. I will, however, admit that I don't play much attention to the GDT so I don't know what goes on there.

Edited November 21, 2015 by tom webster

[qwksndmonster]

JJ, instead of being angry and indignant about the way people post, just share your opinion on Tyler's play and move on.

[JJFIVEOH]

I still don't get the relative to talent they are worse. Given your feelings about Ted Nolan I guess I shouldn't be surprised but I have to say you have to be the only person voicing that opinion right now.

It is like night and day watching this team. I will, however, admit that I don't play much attention to the GDT so I don't know what goes on there.

 

This team is loaded with talent, last year's team didn't have the talent to beat a high school team. They're on pace to have the 3rd worst offensive team in their history, they have yet to score more than 4 goals, they've only scored more than 3 goals twice, they have yet to have a dominating win and they're still almost dea last on the PK.

 

I never said they aren't fun to watch or they haven't improved (well, several games haven't been fun to watch but that goes for many others around the league (different story for a different day))............. the term RELATIVE is an important part of my post. And whoever has whipping boy status that week gets ten times the criticism of anybody else, I just don't understand it.

[Hoss]

So if we're going to deal Tyler Ennis - what do we want for him? It has to be an immediate impact winger (preferably right) or immediate impact top-4 LHD. Anybody go somebody in mind?

[JJFIVEOH]

JJ, instead of being angry and indignant about the way people post, just share your opinion on Tyler's play and move on.

 

Nobody's angry, I shared my opinion, others followed it up with their own opinion. That's how a discussion works. Don't tell me how to post. Just because you don't agree with my opinion, maybe you're the one that's angry.

Edited November 21, 2015 by JJFIVEOH

[Hoss]

Wayne Simmonds has been mentioned before as an target in this. That'd be a dream, but I imagine we'd have to add more. Kyle Okposo is an expirer, but maybe we could work out a contract before making the deal. Keith Yandle (LHD) is another such situation and many assume the Rangers won't be able to keep him after this season.

Alex Edler could be another one to look at, but we'd need to add a dman to the deal. Maybe more.

[qwksndmonster]

Nobody's angry, I shared my opinion, others followed it up with their own opinion. That's how a discussion works. Don't tell me how to post. Just because you don't agree with my opinion, maybe you're the one that's angry.

Bwahaha actually it seems like you and I see eye to eye on Ennis.

 

But who reads?

Don't tell me how to post when I'm telling other people how to post!

[JJFIVEOH]

:D

[tom webster]

This team is loaded with talent, last year's team didn't have the talent to beat a high school team. They're on pace to have the 3rd worst offensive team in their history, they have yet to score more than 4 goals, they've only scored more than 3 goals twice, they have yet to have a dominating win and they're still almost dea last on the PK.

 

I never said they aren't fun to watch or they haven't improved (well, several games haven't been fun to watch but that goes for many others around the league (different story for a different day))............. the term RELATIVE is an important part of my post. And whoever has whipping boy status that week gets ten times the criticism of anybody else, I just don't understand it.

The team is 9th in shots per game. The goals will come. You can't really debate a "relative" argument but,again, in my opinion, relative to talent or not, in no way is this team worse then last year, save maybe for your favorite whipping boy.

[Thorner]

If you look at Ennis historically the tank appears to have had little effect on his production. He essentially played the same during the tank as he always had.

 

I'm also pointing out that his numbers are nearly identical to Semin, who is historically poo-poo'd around here, but who appears to be a much better shooter than Ennis.

 

True, but the Tank encompassed some of the years where Ennis was starting to reach what generally constitutes a player's prime. The fact that Ennis's numbers stayed the same in the midst of such a poor offensive period of hockey, tells me that in reality his level of play was probably going up. Had a better team surrounded him, his numbers may have been better.

 

Now, of course this year many expected him to "break out", as he would be surrounded by better talent, and it is true that he hasn't yet. But it's still early and I am willing to give him time.

So do many other players, but it seems like everybody focuses on one until somebody else takes over. Based on talent this team is playing worse than last year's team and it certainly isn't Ennis' fault.

 

If he hadn't gotten busted for offsides this discussion wouldn't even exist.

 

There's no way we are playing worse this year relative to talent level. We have better forwards, and are seeing the reasonably-expected level of increase in shots and scoring chances and overall performance. We have been a bit snake-bit in regards to actual goals, but we are playing markedly better upfront.

 

In fact, our D is probably playing better than expected, so if anything we are playing better that last year relative to talent.

[TrueBlueGED]

So if we're going to deal Tyler Ennis - what do we want for him? It has to be an immediate impact winger (preferably right) or immediate impact top-4 LHD. Anybody go somebody in mind?

If we're trading Ennis I think it's imperative to get a RW who will be around awhile in return, unless Murray has an immediate follow up trade worked out.

 

Edit: I'd very much like to add a puck moving LHD, but I don't think Ennis is the piece to use for that (again, unless we've got another trade lined up).

Edited November 21, 2015 by TrueBlueGED

[JJFIVEOH]

The team is 9th in shots per game. The goals will come. You can't really debate a "relative" argument but,again, in my opinion, relative to talent or not, in no way is this team worse then last year, save maybe for your favorite whipping boy.

 

 

True, but the Tank encompassed some of the years where Ennis was starting to reach what generally constitutes a player's prime. The fact that Ennis's numbers stayed the same in the midst of such a poor offensive period of hockey, tells me that in reality his level of play was probably going up. Had a better team surrounded him, his numbers may have been better.

 

Now, of course this year many expected him to "break out", as he would be surrounded by better talent, and it is true that he hasn't yet. But it's still early and I am willing to give him time.

 

There's no way we are playing worse this year relative to talent level. We have better forwards, and are seeing the reasonably-expected level of increase in shots and scoring chances and overall performance. We have been a bit snake-bit in regards to actual goals, but we are playing markedly better upfront.

 

In fact, our D is probably playing better than expected, so if anything we are playing better that last year relative to talent.

 

Let's put this in simpler terms. Last year's team was underachieving, they really were that bad, as bad as their record showed. This year's team is underachieving at the moment. We all know that will probably change, but for the sake of this discussion we're talking about the present. If one team is underachieving and one isn't, then one team is better, relatively speaking, based on their talent level. I don't think many will argue that this current team is less of an underachiever than last year.

 

With that said, many are underachieving. That includes Ennis. But based on what he's been through I don't think he should be singled out any more than the rest of them. I certainly can't hold it against him if he isn't "breaking out" 19 games into the season with a team where half the roster didn't even know each other just a few months ago. Does Ennis deserve criticism? Sure he does. But certainly not at the level of bringing it up all the time in GDT. I'm glad D4RK started a topic so that way we can keep it out of GDT's. This is a more appropriate place to bash him if that's what some choose to do. ;)

[WildCard]

So if we're going to deal Tyler Ennis - what do we want for him? It has to be an immediate impact winger (preferably right) or immediate impact top-4 LHD. Anybody go somebody in mind?

 I have someone in mind...

  

 

 

Wayne Simmonds has been mentioned before as an target in this. That'd be a dream, but I imagine we'd have to add more. Kyle Okposo is an expirer, but maybe we could work out a contract before making the deal. Keith Yandle (LHD) is another such situation and many assume the Rangers won't be able to keep him after this season.

Alex Edler could be another one to look at, but we'd need to add a dman to the deal. Maybe more.

Yeah, that guy.

 

Other than Simmonds, I'm not sure, I'd have to look into it. Pick someone off the Sharks maybe? I'm not really sure who they have; It's a tricky position because it's not one where you automatically go to just a team that's unloading, or one that's making a Cup move, because we're looking for significant pieces back in turn. The other thing is, if we move Ennis, I, personally, want a forward back. The problem then with that is, again, you need to find that one team where you value a player more than they do, and they value Ennis more than you do. Package some pieces in to balance it....it's a really hard trade to make basically. Almost a Winnipeg-Buffalo 2.0 trade, and those don't happen often. 

[Hoss]

 I have someone in mind...

  

 

 

Yeah, that guy.

 

Other than Simmonds, I'm not sure, I'd have to look into it. Pick someone off the Sharks maybe? I'm not really sure who they have; It's a tricky position because it's not one where you automatically go to just a team that's unloading, or one that's making a Cup move, because we're looking for significant pieces back in turn. The other thing is, if we move Ennis, I, personally, want a forward back. The problem then with that is, again, you need to find that one team where you value a player more than they do, and they value Ennis more than you do. Package some pieces in to balance it....it's a really hard trade to make basically. Almost a Winnipeg-Buffalo 2.0 trade, and those don't happen often. 

I agree with everything you're saying. I'd prefer a forward to a defenseman here. Simmonds would be awesome. Maybe we could give them Ennis and a prospect/pick for Simmonds and Vinny Lacav's contract (2 years left at $4.5M each)?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Why do we as a fans need a *whipping boy* every season.

 

Ennis is in a slump.  He is not exactly what we would call a Bylsma type of player, so he is being asked to do certain things out there.  There is a learning curve.  I think Ennis will be fine, given enough time, of course.

[Neo]

I think he'll be fine, eventually. I see too much Nolan "play hard" as he knows best and too little "play smart" as DD demands.

 

The whole Ennis thread may be a 2014/2015 hang over.

Edited November 22, 2015 by N'eo

[Taro T]

Why do we as a fans need a *whipping boy* every season.

 

Ennis is in a slump.  He is not exactly what we would call a Bylsma type of player, so he is being asked to do certain things out there.  There is a learning curve.  I think Ennis will be fine, given enough time, of course.

Because (for the most part) fans is people too.

 

Truthfully, my biggest surprise this season is lacking a personal whipping boy. Always been able to find one going back to Fogalin's 1st stint.