off topic The politics of terrorism

[LGR4GM]

And then the US wants to bring over 100,000 Syrian refugees into this country. Are u £ucking kidding me. No way in hell should we bring any of these people over. But this just goes to show you how retarded our politicians are. You don't think IS will have people in those refugee groups???

You have a better chance of getting killed in your car or getting killed by someone you know then of every getting killed by a terrorist attack. You are letting fear cloud your judgement.

 

I'd gladly die in a terror attack if I knew I helped 99,998 innocent human beings escape war and death but 2 of them were going to be terrorists because quite frankly most people on the planet are kind and compassionate.  Those people deserve a chance to live free and honestly, out of every country on the planet, America was designed to shelter those ppl.  Give me your tired your poor your humble masses yearning to be free. You don't turn your back on people because you fear the almost negligible chance of something bad happening.

[Thwomp!]

*snip* for column inch conservation.

 

To East: "Winning hearts and minds" isn't silly or naive. I don't reference it with snide intent.

 

I just don't see (yet?) that radical Islam wants anything to do with our hearts and minds. When I hear "hearts and minds" I hear cackling laughter. It's not the laughter of US war hawks. It's the laughter of the the extremists.

 

Important nuance. I agree.

 

I hear their "cackling laughter" at our military intervention as well.  The radicalized are largely beyond help at this point.  We need to stop people from becoming radicalized in the first place. 

[2 minuter för grovbearbetn]

 

 

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vN8U-TSbfwE"frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

I haven't seen this posted, but it seems like a good fit. 

 

"Can you tell when it's peacetime and wartime anymore?" 

[LGR4GM]

Also -- France is about to find out what it feels like to have a pacifist, arrogant fool in charge of an important ally when trying to fight a war against radical Islam. I'd call it a fair bit of payback if our necks weren't on the line as well.

You'd call the death of over 100 people fair payback because Obama is president?

 

If that is what this sentence means, Go f#ck yourself

[Neo]

And then the rest continue guerrilla warfare anywhere they can against us in revenge. We can't kill them all. This is actually where we are at in the current situation.

 

We need to stop people from feeling the need to join the terrorist groups and let the group die off eventually. You really do need to kill the "idea", which a gun or bomb can't do.

I have a request. I'm trying to educate me, not change your view.

 

What would a five or six bullet point outline of the "killed" idea or changed heart and mind, look like? If you or I were to deliver the tenants of our ideal heart and mind to ISIS/radical Islam tomorrow, what would be on the talking point briefing? Which of their ideas do we "kill" with persuasion and which do we substitute in their place?

 

This is where I'm stopped when I consider this honorable approach.

Edited November 14, 2015 by N'eo

[Thwomp!]

Sadly, that is something that cannot be prevented. 

 

Maybe, maybe not.  It can certainly be much more minimized than it currently is.  The smaller the problem, the easier it is to deal with what's left of it.

[SwampD]

I hear their "cackling laughter" at our military intervention as well.  The radicalized are largely beyond help at this point.  We need to stop people from becoming radicalized in the first place. 

Our military intervention killed over 100,000 innocent civilian non-combatants. Our moral high horse doesn't have any legs.

[Eleven]

You'd call the death of over 100 people fair payback because Obama is president?

 

If that is what this sentence means, Go f#ck yourself

 

That's not how I read it.  I read it as saying that if America denied military aid to the French, it would be "fair payback."  I do not agree at all--France was right to stay out of Iraq and we were wrong to go in.  But I think that's freeman's point.

[X. Benedict]

*snip* for column inch conservation.

To East: "Winning hearts and minds" isn't silly or naive. I don't reference it with snide intent.

I just don't see (yet?) that radical Islam wants anything to do with our hearts and minds. When I hear "hearts and minds" I hear cackling laughter. It's not the laughter of US war hawks. It's the laughter of the the extremists.

 

Important nuance. I agree.

Yes. The goal is to radicalize Islam. If France kicked out every Muslim tomorrow, ISIS would be clapping and cheering, because France would be doing their work.

[Eleven]

And then the rest continue guerrilla warfare anywhere they can against us in revenge.  We can't kill them all.  This is actually where we are at in the current situation. 

 

We need to stop people from feeling the need to join the terrorist groups and let the group die off eventually.  You really do need to kill the "idea", which a gun or bomb can't do.

 

When their economies are working again--i.e., when the people have something to lose--this will stop.

[LGR4GM]

That's not how I read it.  I read it as saying that if America denied military aid to the French, it would be "fair payback."  I do not agree at all--France was right to stay out of Iraq and we were wrong to go in.  But I think that's freeman's point.

Well then apologies to Nfreeman for my anger.  I am sorry.

[GoPre]

You have a better chance of getting killed in your car or getting killed by someone you know then of every getting killed by a terrorist attack. You are letting fear cloud your judgement.

 

I'd gladly die in a terror attack if I knew I helped 99,998 innocent human beings escape war and death but 2 of them were going to be terrorists because quite frankly most people on the planet are kind and compassionate.  Those people deserve a chance to live free and honestly, out of every country on the planet, America was designed to shelter those ppl.  Give me your tired your poor your humble masses yearning to be free. You don't turn your back on people because you fear the almost negligible chance of something bad happening.

 

And one terrorist attack is one too many. Shouldn't consider the odds of yourself being killed by some type of terrorist attack. The goal of terrorism is gain attention. Try to get everyone to listen to what a group has to say. And of course cause whoever is terrorized to respond in whatever manner is wanted. 

Edited November 14, 2015 by Thanes16

[Thwomp!]

I have a request. I'm trying to educate me, not change your view.

 

What would a five or six bullet point outline of the killed idea, or changed heart and mind, look like? If you or I were to deliver the tenants of our ideal heart and mind to ISIS/radical Islam tomorrow, what would be on the talking point briefing? Which of their ideas do we "kill" with persuasion and which do we substitute in their place?

 

This is where I'm stopped when I consider this honorable approach.

 

I think this is where we're missing each other.  I'm not talking about changing hearts and minds of the radicalized, I'm talking about changing hearts and minds of the potentially future radicalized so that the radicalization never happens.

 

Education, economic opportunities, basically a positive purpose in life.  America interacts positively rather than negatively and we're the "good guys" not the "bad guys".

[LGR4GM]

And one terrorist attack is one too many. Shouldn't consider the odds of you being killed by some type of terrorist attack. The goal of terrorism is gain attention. Try to get everyone to listen to what a group has to say. 

And that is why I will not listen to what they have to say and I will continue to be compassionate towards Syrians refugees.

I think this is where we're missing each other.  I'm not talking about changing hearts and minds of the radicalized, I'm talking about changing hearts and minds of the potentially future radicalized so that the radicalization never happens.

 

Education, economic opportunities, basically a positive purpose in life.  America interacts positively rather than negatively and we're the "good guys" not the "bad guys".

yup

[Eleven]

Well then apologies to Nfreeman for my anger.  I am sorry.

 

This is a classy response.

 

I think this is where we're missing each other.  I'm not talking about changing hearts and minds of the radicalized, I'm talking about changing hearts and minds of the potentially future radicalized so that the radicalization never happens.

 

Education, economic opportunities, basically a positive purpose in life.  America interacts positively rather than negatively and we're the "good guys" not the "bad guys".

 

Bingo.

[Neo]

That's not how I read it.  I read it as saying that if America denied military aid to the French, it would be "fair payback."  I do not agree at all--France was right to stay out of Iraq and we were wrong to go in.  But I think that's freeman's point.

I read it as follows: France is about to learn that America under President Obama is an unreliable ally. That bitter lesson is one America's learned about France in the past.

 

This is my interpretation of the good sir's post, only.

[Thwomp!]

Our military intervention killed over 100,000 innocent civilian non-combatants. Our moral high horse doesn't have any legs.

 

Well we've never tried positive interaction, and unfortunately probably never will.  We could achieve a moral high horse but it's going to take at least as much time as we've spent going the other way.

[Neo]

I think this is where we're missing each other. I'm not talking about changing hearts and minds of the radicalized, I'm talking about changing hearts and minds of the potentially future radicalized so that the radicalization never happens.

 

Education, economic opportunities, basically a positive purpose in life. America interacts positively rather than negatively and we're the "good guys" not the "bad guys".

Gotcha.

 

I'm thinking along your path -

 

Education - for men and women, to include exposure to western and eastern literature, thought, and philosophies around man and his creator, atheism and agnosticism. The secular rule of law. Equal rights.

 

Economics, including capital, labor, and innovation that replaces the old with the new.

 

A positive purpose in life, regardless of whether or not you believe it serves a particular deity, or not.

 

I understand your distinction among generations. I've not seen my "probability of success" needle move, yet.

Edited November 14, 2015 by N'eo

[GoPre]

And that is why I will not listen to what they have to say and I will continue to be compassionate towards Syrians refugees.

yup

 

And I respect/support that. However, most people will not ignore the act of terrorism/message being delivered. It will be heard. I hate to add this, but you are giving attention to ISIS by simply taking part in this discussion. I mean this w/ no disrespect. I enjoy reading your posts. 

Edited November 14, 2015 by Thanes16

[LGR4GM]

And I respect/support that. However, most people will not ignore the act of terrorism/message being delivered. It will be heard. I hate to add this, but you are giving attention to ISIS by simply taking part in this discussion. I mean this w/ no disrespect. I enjoy reading your posts. 

You are right we are giving them attention.  We just can't fear them and turn our back on millions of ppl ISIS and Assad have displaced.  That is exactly how we will end up with more terrorists. 

 

We will never ever ever be completely safe.  We must live with that not in fear but understanding.  What's the old star wars quote?

 

[Eleven]

I read it as follows: France is about to learn that America under President Obama is an unreliable ally. That bitter lesson is one America's learned about France in the past.

 

This is my interpretation of the good sir's post, only.

 

Except we didn't.  When we were attacked, France came to our aid with 4000 soldiers, 75 of whom died.

 

Refusal to participate in a war of aggression--which is done all the time by all sorts of allies--is not the same thing as not coming to an ally's aid when that ally is attacked.

Edited November 14, 2015 by eleven

[qwksndmonster]

That might be the worst quote from all of star wars.

[LGR4GM]

That might be the worst quote from all of star wars.

fair enough

[Neo]

[Edit]. Removal of a thought I had born in my Mis-reading of another's thought. On me!

 

 

Except we didn't. When we were attacked, France came to our aid with 4000 soldiers, 75 of whom died.

 

Refusal to participate in a war of aggression--which is done all the time by all sorts of allies--is not the same thing as not coming to an ally's aid when that ally is attacked.

I was providing merely my understanding of another's set of words.

That might be the worst quote from all of star wars.

“So, what do you think? You think a princess and a guy like me–“

 

Might be the best?

Edited November 14, 2015 by N'eo

[Weave]

ISIsS doesn't want to push France, they want France to help push moderate Islam to them.

 

 

I can't say I've put much thought into the goal of terrorism.  This makes sense.