off topic The politics of terrorism

[Weave]

Right but ultimately they'll extort all the wealth there is.  I've read articles that say the key to defeating ISIS isn't to fight them but avoid conflict and seek to contain them, and let them implode on themselves.  I can see that happening pretty quickly if all the wealth they have is what they started with.  If they cannot conquer new territory they'll go bankrupt and that'll be the end of them.

 

They also have quite a few oil rigs in their territory and are selling the oil.  And it seems to be plenty of $$ to fund their existence.  How are they selling the oil?  I don't know, but it seems to be their major revenue source.  We'll need to blockade their oil sales to bankrupt them.

 

Unfortunately it will probably create a humanitarian crisis as the people in those territories run out of necessities.

Edited November 19, 2015 by We've

[Claude_Verret]

Article from last year but coincides with what I've heard recently..

 

ISIS making $1 MM a day in black market oil sales.

[Doohicksie]

Ah, that makes more sense.  I wonder if they're targeting air strikes on oil facilities delivery routes?

[MattPie]

Ah, that makes more sense.  I wonder if they're targeting air strikes on oil facilities delivery routes?

 

The US struck a convoy of tanker trucks within the last week. Whilie looking for link to that, this came up from Sept 2014, so it's been going on for awhile.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/us-led-planes-strike-isis-oil-facilities-syria/story?id=25739334

[bunomatic]

I've read through most of the thread as to cause and effect and I'm pretty sure I've not read anything about regime change. That is where all of this mess started innit ? First to oust a despot in Saddam and then with the urging of Israel to oust another despot in Assad. My gov't is of course complicit in this being an ally but at some point we have to look at ourselves and wonder if all the death and destruction and subsequent ' terror ' that this has caused was really worth it to get rid of two rulers that although ruled with an iron fist ruled countries that had order and relative calm compared to the bombed out shells they've become. There were human rights abuses but one only has to look at our biggest partner in the gulf in Saudi Arabia to see the worst offender. In the case of Assads country it was always secular according to my wife who travelled through the m.e. in the eighties/early nineties. In many ways not unlike Turkey which has a large secular population as well.  Anyways we always seem to find a reason to go in and change leaders or make things better but for who ? Certainly not for the people of these countries. Millions dead and displaced would tell you otherwise.

[Doohicksie]

A Facebook exchange with someone I ride bikes with:

 

Phong:  "And you are willing to take those Syrian MEN into your home?"

Me:  "In all seriousness, Phong, what if the U.S. denied entry to to Vietnamese in the 1970s because they might have been infiltrated by the Viet Cong? This is a very similar situation."

 

I expect he'll unfriend me over that.

[JJFIVEOH]

Was your answer yes or no?

[X. Benedict]

A Facebook exchange with someone I ride bikes with:

 

Phong:  "And you are willing to take those Syrian MEN into your home?"

Me:  "In all seriousness, Phong, what if the U.S. denied entry to to Vietnamese in the 1970s because they might have been infiltrated by the Viet Cong? This is a very similar situation."

 

I expect he'll unfriend me over that.

Apologize with "Sorry, Charlie." 

[North Buffalo]

Terrorists holed up in Ratisson in Mali with 150 hostages

[bunomatic]

Terrorists holed up in Ratisson in Mali with 150 hostages

Reports that they were letting people go that could recite verses of the Koran.

[pastajoe]

Reports that they were letting people go that could recite verses of the Koran.

Bring some verses up on your iPad to memorize on the flight if you're traveling overseas, just in case. Just don't let others see it, they might duct tape you in your seat. We live in interesting times.

[Doohicksie]

Was your answer yes or no?

 

He hasn't responded yet.  I've gotten a bunch of Likes from others, though.

[Eleven]

Those aren't the ones who are using suicide vests.  The fanatics are.

 

Well, the fanatics and the guys who are kidnapped and forced to wear them.

[Hoss]

Changed the thread title as we discuss terrorism more in general terms than just Paris. Anonymous claims to have uncovered ISIS plans to attack worldwide on Sunday including an attack on WWE's PPV Survivor Series.

 

http://trib.al/WIl7Rm5

[Neo]

Hoss - grateful for your thread migrations and topic amendments. You are on it.

[nfreeman]

Obviously this is a serious matter, and I have been as guilty as anyone of getting too worked up in this thread, but here is a nice bit of topical wit I stumbled upon:

 

Speaking of Anonymous -- those aren't the 72 virgins that ISIS had in mind.

 

 

 

Also -- Anonymous yesterday issued a statement directed to ISIS:  "you're a virus, and we're the cure."

 

Awesome.

[Huckleberry]

Changed the thread title as we discuss terrorism more in general terms than just Paris. Anonymous claims to have uncovered ISIS plans to attack worldwide on Sunday including an attack on WWE's PPV Survivor Series.

 

http://trib.al/WIl7Rm5

 

Well brussels is on the highest alert level that can be, bars have to be closed by 18.00.   Games and events being cancelled.

And I can go to work tonight at my airport job (cargo handling).

Edited November 21, 2015 by Huckleberry

[bunomatic]

Apparently Belgium is on their highest terrorist alert...

 

On a side note Steve Jobs father was Syrian who immigrated to the U.S. and fell in love with an American woman. The Mother gave Steve up for adoption and we all know how his life turned out. American culture has been built on the backs of immigrants some of which went on to become the true innovators that helped make America great. The same can be said of Canada with the English, Scots , Irish and countless others that chose this country for a chance at a new life. 

[TrueBlueGED]

Obviously this is a serious matter, and I have been as guilty as anyone of getting too worked up in this thread, but here is a nice bit of topical wit I stumbled upon:

 

 

Outstanding :lol:

[SarasotaSabre]

Changed the thread title as we discuss terrorism more in general terms than just Paris. Anonymous claims to have uncovered ISIS plans to attack worldwide on Sunday including an attack on WWE's PPV Survivor Series.

 

http://trib.al/WIl7Rm5

 

yep, I will be nowhere near downtown ATL tomorrow. Wondering if more attacks will be coming to disrupt those planning on flying for Thanksgiving

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Hey guys, just wanted to add my two cents.

 

There's a good huffpost article that may be of help to those who want to see if there is any proof that Islam and in particular, Muhammad would condemn this if he were alive today. There is overwhelming proof against this sort of behavior and I'd have to say what we are seeing is a clear example of the Hegelian dialect, i.e problem-reaction-solution. It is what moves along the geopolitical game.

 

"Today the dialectic is active in every political issue that encourages taking sides. We can see it in environmentalists instigating conflicts against private property owners, in democrats against republicans, in greens against libertarians, in communists against socialists, in neo-cons against traditional conservatives, in community activists against individuals, in pro-choice versus pro-life, in Christians against Muslims, in isolationists versus interventionists, in peace activists against war hawks. No matter what the issue, the invisible dialectic aims to control both the conflict and the resolution of differences, and leads everyone involved into a new cycle of conflicts."

 

http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/05/dialectic.htm

 

In terms of where can we find condemnation of this in Islam, I would just like to link the article and present some authentic sayings recorded from Muhammad.

 

"At this time of dissension, he said there would appear "a group of young people who would be immature in thought and foolish." They would speak beautiful words but commit the most heinous of deeds. They would engage in so much prayer and fasting that the worship of the Muslims would appear insignificant in comparison. They would call people to the Quran but would have nothing to do with it in reality. The Quran would not go beyond their throats, meaning they wouldn't understand its essence at all, merely regurgitating it selectively. The Prophet then went on to describe these people as "the worst of the creation."

As if this outline wasn't clear enough, another tradition in the book Kitaab Al Fitan reported by Caliph Ali, the fourth successor to Prophet Muhammad, describes these people as having long hair and bearing black flags. Their "hearts will be hard as iron," and they would be the companions of a State (Ashab ul Dawla). Interestingly, ISIS refers to itself as the Islamic State or Dawla. The tradition further mentions that they will break their covenants, not speak the truth and have names that mention their cities. The ISIS caliph, Abu Bakr al Baghdadi, comes to mind.

Prophet Muhammad furiously and painfully described these evildoers, and admonished Muslims to beware of their evil and fight it. "Whoever fights them is better to Allah than them," he proclaimed.

 

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7702064

 

Anyways, we are all susceptible to emotional reactions but we're going to have to try real hard to retain and build upon our critical thinking capabilities and band together against tyranny of any kind!

 

And just as side note, I know I haven't posted in forever but I am around and am watching allllllll the games with my free Rogers NHL gamecenter live app and it's amazing!!!!! My quality of life has improved tremendously since chromecast and live streaming!

 

Dobar dan ...

 

Hi there my friend,

 

I could not have said it better myself.

 

-----

 

I have read many posts in this thread (got as far this post).

 

There is no ... NONE ... support for the actions of ISIS in the Qur'an.  Anyone can interpret it in anyway and then twist it to meet their agenda.  Murderous criminals and crazies will do all sorts of things when they find someone, anyone, to feed it to them.

 

I have said it before and I will say it forever ... their is no such thing as radical Islam.  Only radical misinterpretations of it.  The Qur'an and Muhammad (PBUH), as pointed out by our friend, warned that this would happen.

 

This so called caliphate is as unIslamic as the last one (The Ottomans).

[WildCard]

And China declares war on ISIS

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/china-declares-war-isis-after-6862200

and Russia was cool and gave France a puppy to replace the service dog they lost in the attacks

http://imgur.com/a/vPCeS

 

If nothing else, at least countries are coming together from this

[Stoner]

I could be way out to lunch on this one, but I suspect one reason we never see that dreaded follow-up attack is that the terrorists achieve all their goals with the first one. It's not entirely about killing innocents. How many quasi-collaborators do they have? The media providing wall to wall coverage, politicians pandering to their publics, ignorant elements of societies speaking out and acting out against Muslims, everyone stoking fears. A few attacks in Paris could lead to America faltering on its tradition of opening its arms to immigrants. ISIS can just sit back and let it percolate. Even well intentioned symbolic gestures give some sort of weird validation to these atrocities — CNN has the colors of the French flag at the top of its website. It's too bad. I wish we could adopt more of a laissez faire attitude about these things. Like, "whatever." Put it on page 11. But too many people have too much to gain.

[BagBoy]

I could be way out to lunch on this one, but I suspect one reason we never see that dreaded follow-up attack is that the terrorists achieve all their goals with the first one. It's not entirely about killing innocents. How many quasi-collaborators do they have? The media providing wall to wall coverage, politicians pandering to their publics, ignorant elements of societies speaking out and acting out against Muslims, everyone stoking fears. A few attacks in Paris could lead to America faltering on its tradition of opening its arms to immigrants. ISIS can just sit back and let it percolate. Even well intentioned symbolic gestures give some sort of weird validation to these atrocities — CNN has the colors of the French flag at the top of its website. It's too bad. I wish we could adopt more of a laissez faire attitude about these things. Like, "whatever." Put it on page 11. But too many people have too much to gain.

You're not out to lunch on this one at all, and I can prove it in 2 words - Patriot Act.

[DR HOLLIDAY]

NSFW  John Olivers rant on the attack on France.