NHL Scoring Problem

[LGR4GM]

    

Hmmm, what could the unintended consequences be of a rule making it illegal to block a shot if your knee (or other body part besides the foot (in a skate)) is on the ice? Hmmmmm. That is a tricky one.

Let's implement it in the AHL and see what happens. Maybe it doesn't work at all but we should try something otherwise within another 5 years teams will be scoring 2 goals a game. That is just boring.

[Stoner]

Not in favor of making that kind of shot block illegal a-tall. Terrible idea. That's too much the essence of the game. A sprawling player giving up his body is a beautiful thing, one of the finest elements of the game.

[Taro T]

Let's implement it in the AHL and see what happens. Maybe it doesn't work at all but we should try something otherwise within another 5 years teams will be scoring 2 goals a game. That is just boring.

There are far simpler solutions to the problem available to try 1st rather than go to something that will be problematic to implement (at best) such as not allowing players to go to the ice to block shots or radically transforming the game such as by significantly changing offsides.

 

We know what they are. They've been brought up here myriads of times. Let's try them 1st. KISS is a good guiding principle. As is 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it.' Would like to see the NHL implement them occasionally.

[woods-racer]

There are far simpler solutions to the problem available to try 1st rather than go to something that will be problematic to implement (at best) such as not allowing players to go to the ice to block shots or radically transforming the game such as by significantly changing offsides.

 

We know what they are. They've been brought up here myriads of times. Let's try them 1st. KISS is a good guiding principle. As is 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it.' Would like to see the NHL implement them occasionally.

 

Well give ME a KISS please!

 

Please share an idea that is easy to implement.

[Stoner]

Let me be a bit of a contrarian here. Is number of goals in a game the best metric? What about scoring chances? Have they been officially tracked for long enough to detect a trend there? How many scoring chances do you want in an average NHL game? (I'd define scoring chance a bit more selectively than many do, almost go with a notion of a "Grade A scoring chance.") With enough great chances to score, I don't mind a 2-1 game at all. They're exciting in their own right.

[woods-racer]

Let me be a bit of a contrarian here. Is number of goals in a game the best metric? What about scoring chances? Have they been officially tracked for long enough to detect a trend there? How many scoring chances do you want in an average NHL game? (I'd define scoring chance a bit more selectively than many do, almost go with a notion of a "Grade A scoring chance.") With enough great chances to score, I don't mind a 2-1 game at all. They're exciting in their own right.

 

So if we have the same amount of scoring chances for the last 3 decades, the logically thing to do is decrease goalie equipment and increase net size till the scoring opportunities and goals from them are equal to that of the 80's and 90's?

[Stoner]

So if we have the same amount of scoring chances for the last 3 decades, the logically thing to do is decrease goalie equipment and increase net size till the scoring opportunities and goals from them are equal to that of the 80's and 90's?

I don't know if scoring chances were greater in number in the 70s and 80s. All I know is a staggering, chest-clutching Fred Sanford is goalie in a lot of YouTube clips from the time.

[darksabre]

Let me be a bit of a contrarian here. Is number of goals in a game the best metric? What about scoring chances? Have they been officially tracked for long enough to detect a trend there? How many scoring chances do you want in an average NHL game? (I'd define scoring chance a bit more selectively than many do, almost go with a notion of a "Grade A scoring chance.") With enough great chances to score, I don't mind a 2-1 game at all. They're exciting in their own right.

I agree with you. I don't really need more scoring.

 

I'd prefer more flow. The stuff that happens between goals is what I'm interested in making better. That's where the beauty of the game lies.

 

Let's talk about the Soviets...

[LGR4GM]

I agree with you. I don't really need more scoring.

 

I'd prefer more flow. The stuff that happens between goals is what I'm interested in making better. That's where the beauty of the game lies.

 

Let's talk about the Soviets...

Yea and these days it is chip the puck in, pray your retrieve it, shoot it back to the point, let the point guy shoot it, and pray it deflects off something.  That is some boring ass hockey at times. Takes some skills away from the game.

[woods-racer]

I don't know if scoring chances were greater in number in the 70s and 80s. All I know is a staggering, chest-clutching Fred Sanford is goalie in a lot of YouTube clips from the time.

 

We don't have to kill a goalie to get a goal, well a few of us don't think so right D4ark, but if in the 80's 35% of all break always resulted in a goal and today it 5%, maybe it's the size of the human and his pads in the goal that have something to do with it?

 

Decrease goalie equipment (keeping safety a major factor) and increase the net size. Use baby steps till break-aways are at an equal percentage.

[Stoner]

We don't have to kill a goalie to get a goal, well a few of us don't think so right D4ark, but if in the 80's 35% of all break always resulted in a goal and today it 5%, maybe it's the size of the human and his pads in the goal that have something to do with it?

 

Decrease goalie equipment (keeping safety a major factor) and increase the net size. Use baby steps till break-aways are at an equal percentage.

The other variable has to be the skill and athleticism of the goalies. d4rk could have started for the Barons.

[woods-racer]

The other variable has to be the skill and athleticism of the goalies. d4rk could have started for the Barons.

 

And the skill and athleticism of forwards has not increased proportionally? Defense-men are not with better aim and faster slap shots? If evolution of the game and it's players was equal in all areas scoring would remain a constant, yet scoring is way down.

[Stoner]

And the skill and athleticism of forwards has not increased proportionally? Defense-men are not with better aim and faster slap shots? If evolution of the game and it's players was equal in all areas scoring would remain a constant, yet scoring is way down.

I'm certainly talking out my ass (what's new?) but I would guess that the average forward from then would fare better in today's game than the average goalie.

[woods-racer]

I'm certainly talking out my ass (what's new?) but I would guess that the average forward from then would fare better in today's game than the average goalie.

 

It would be very, very, very difficult for any one to convince me that an 80's goalie in equipment of that era would maintain a .92 + save % today, which is what it takes to be an average goalie in today's game.

 

The elite will always be elite. Gretzky/Lemieux would be great today. 

 

Would Rob Ray and Brad May even be on a team today? Why not? Because they are not offensively skilled enough to make a team? 

 

The players have evolved, the game has been static. Give the fans what the rest of pro sports have done, make it easier to score, not harder.

[Stoner]

Canadians are the stewards of the game. They overwhelmingly populate the league ranks, the GM ranks, the coaching ranks. They are conservative, dinosaurs and the offspring of dinosaurs. They won't mess with the game too much. And there's this: the money is rolling in, ratings are good. Why should they?

 

Which brings me to this question. How much of the lack of scoring in the game today is by design, to help control player salaries?

[dudacek]

Not in favor of making that kind of shot block illegal a-tall. Terrible idea. That's too much the essence of the game. A sprawling player giving up his body is a beautiful thing, one of the finest elements of the game.

 

Thank you. If I was lgr you'd see a gif of an intense man clapping.

 

The other variable has to be the skill and athleticism of the goalies. d4rk could have started for the Barons.

 

Partially, but it's less that and more the coaching. The combination of defenders taking away time and space better and goalies anticipating and blocking the spaces where the puck is most likely to go instead of reacting to shots is the main difference. The unbelievable save has almost vanished as much as the big hit.

 

Canadians are the stewards of the game. They overwhelmingly populate the league ranks, the GM ranks, the coaching ranks. They are conservative, dinosaurs and the offspring of dinosaurs.

I think inflammatory comments about other nationalities should be reserved for the political threads.

But since you started it, Jeremy Roenick and Mike Milbury.

Edited November 19, 2015 by dudacek

[Stoner]

I think inflammatory comments about other nationalities should be reserved for the political threads.

But since you started it, Jeremy Roenick and Mike Milbury.

Not sure if joking. But I didn't intend that as a generalization about Canadians, just a lot of them who run the sport.

[dudacek]

Not sure if joking. But I didn't intend that as a generalization about Canadians, just a lot of them who run the sport.

Tongue was firmly in cheek.

Except for the Milbury bit.

[MattPie]

#3

If your knee is on the ice while blocking a shot, penalty, done.

    

Hmmm, what could the unintended consequences be of a rule making it illegal to block a shot if your knee (or other body part besides the foot (in a skate)) is on the ice? Hmmmmm. That is a tricky one.

 

I'm not sure if that's sarcasm or not, but I'll play it straight. Defending player on the ice for whatever reason, attacking player fires the puck into him to draw a penalty. Bonus style points if your teammate "encourages" the defending player with a check, cross check, or subtle trip, or you injure the defending player by drilling a slapper into a lightly-protected area.

[TrueBlueGED]

Let me be a bit of a contrarian here. Is number of goals in a game the best metric? What about scoring chances? Have they been officially tracked for long enough to detect a trend there? How many scoring chances do you want in an average NHL game? (I'd define scoring chance a bit more selectively than many do, almost go with a notion of a "Grade A scoring chance.") With enough great chances to score, I don't mind a 2-1 game at all. They're exciting in their own right.

 

 

I agree with you. I don't really need more scoring.

 

I'd prefer more flow. The stuff that happens between goals is what I'm interested in making better. That's where the beauty of the game lies.

 

Let's talk about the Soviets...

 

I've been firmly here for a really long time...I just don't have the faintest idea what to do about it. The easiest thing conceptually is to address how teams are allowed to play in the neutral zone, but I couldn't even imagine trying to enforce that in real time.

[WildCard]

I've been firmly here for a really long time...I just don't have the faintest idea what to do about it. The easiest thing conceptually is to address how teams are allowed to play in the neutral zone, but I couldn't even imagine trying to enforce that in real time.

I don't think there is anything you really can do about it. Statistics and time have made for better schemes, and have made average/bad players better than they would be. It's evened the playing field by a lot

[TrueBlueGED]

I don't think there is anything you really can do about it. Statistics and time have made for better schemes, and have made average/bad players better than they would be. It's evened the playing field by a lot

 

And coaches just have a natural inclination to try to stifle the opposition's offense. As fun as fire wagon hockey can be, coaches know it's not a winning proposition, even when they have a lot of talent themselves. It's very frustrating.

[Stoner]

I wonder where Terry stands on this subject. Because as a group, the owners can go a long way toward solving the problem. If they want to.

[darksabre]

I've been firmly here for a really long time...I just don't have the faintest idea what to do about it. The easiest thing conceptually is to address how teams are allowed to play in the neutral zone, but I couldn't even imagine trying to enforce that in real time.

I know one place I would start, and that's with goalies freezing the puck. I would make it a delay of game penalty to freeze the puck outside of the crease. If you watch old games, goalies were always gloving and dumping the puck to an open corner to keep play moving. I'd like to see that happen more.

 

I'd also like to see the trapezoid removed. Goalies playing the puck keeps the game moving. Let them do it anywhere.

 

If we want to get more radical, I would go to full time 4 on 4. Players are too good at clogging up the ice now. Let's unclog it.

 

Make icing illegal on the PK. I don't see any reason the basic rules of gameplay suddenly need to be suspended for a penalty. Increase the value of the power play by reducing the amount of time the team with the advantage spends chasing the puck down in their own end.

 

I like changing offsides. Allow one player to enter the offensive zone before the puck so long as someone else carries the puck in.

[Taro T]

I'm not sure if that's sarcasm or not, but I'll play it straight. Defending player on the ice for whatever reason, attacking player fires the puck into him to draw a penalty. Bonus style points if your teammate "encourages" the defending player with a check, cross check, or subtle trip, or you injure the defending player by drilling a slapper into a lightly-protected area.

  

 

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

 

And that is only 1 possible issue. You also have the issue of d-men dropping to the ice to break up a pass - when is it trying to block a shot, when is it blocking the pass? Cool, we just added another judgement call. The league NEVER screws those up. :rolleyes:

 

On the other hand, the positive a rule change that would make falling a penalty is that Hartnell would finally be gone.

 

Well give ME a KISS please!

 

Please share an idea that is easy to implement.

Why stop at 1? A few items to increase scoring that could be easily done w/ no transformation of the basic qualities of the game:

 

Call the game like it was in the '06 playoffs & '06-'07 regular season;

 

Move the nets back to 10' off the boards like they were when Gretzky came into the league (the issue about that being too close to the boards to be safe on icing races has been rendered moot by hybrid icing);

 

Bring back 4-3 & 3-3 hockey on coincidental minors;

 

Bring back no icing on attempted "home run" passes; they never waived icing on those calls when they could have, maybe they'd get it right this time (yeah, that goes against the changing objective to subjective always ends badly in the NHL, but it would work if they only did it right ;));

 

Since the league doesn't mind some games being worth more than others (though it is a bad concept, we'll run w/ it, the league does); only give 2 points for a win for a regulation win - if you go to OT, only 1 point is available, and a SO win results in 0 points for either team, BUT SO wins are now the 1st tie-breaker for seeding; and

 

Reduce goalie pads slightly and except for the leg pad width, make it all be strictly geared towards goalie safety, not blocking as much net as possible simply by standing there.

 

That's all w/out even going to increasing the size of the nets. Definitely don't need to do something radical like getting rid of offsides or going to 4 on 4 fulltime.

I know one place I would start, and that's with goalies freezing the puck. I would make it a delay of game penalty to freeze the puck outside of the crease. If you watch old games, goalies were always gloving and dumping the puck to an open corner to keep play moving. I'd like to see that happen more.

I'd also like to see the trapezoid removed. Goalies playing the puck keeps the game moving. Let them do it anywhere.

If we want to get more radical, I would go to full time 4 on 4. Players are too good at clogging up the ice now. Let's unclog it.

Make icing illegal on the PK. I don't see any reason the basic rules of gameplay suddenly need to be suspended for a penalty. Increase the value of the power play by reducing the amount of time the team with the advantage spends chasing the puck down in their own end.

I like changing offsides. Allow one player to enter the offensive zone before the puck so long as someone else carries the puck in.

Interesting thought but doubt that would work because you'd very likely end up where you were when they stopped calling that delay of game. You'd have goalies stretching a leg back to the crease so that they were in the crease when they froze it.

 

Maybe that's worth a look at in the A.

 

I'd be ok w/ no pk icing but throwing them a bone and allowing substitutions. Otherwise guys like Gorges on teams like last years would be literally be getting killed.