NHL Scoring Problem

[North Buffalo]

More opportunities for lead changes screams tighter hockey to me.  Me no likey.  Not even a little.

Cambell is a dinosaur, neanderthal, and clueless, he needs to step down and have someone younger with a vision to the future replace him.

[pi2000]

Nothing other than increasing net size is going to solve this: 

 

 

We increase seat size in new arenas/stadiums to accommodate larger humans, cars have more interior space in every class, airlines are increasing leg sp....okay, that last one's a bad example. It's time.

 

 

I remember back in the 70's and 80's, the larger goaltenders were not quick enough to be effective.    In the 90's and 00's, goalie equipment grew larger and larger and larger to the insanity it is today.     Larger equipment has allowed the taller goaltenders to compensate for their lack of quickness by simply covering more of the net, notably in the butterfly.      Butterfly technique wasn't popular in the 70's and 80's because if you went down on your knees, then entire top the net was open to shoot at.    So they made chest protectors, gloves, and blockers bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger to take away the top of the net.    This allowed taller goalies to flourish in the butterfly... which is where we're at today.   

 

Take away the larger chest protectors and shrink the other equipment back down and the taller goaltenders no longer have as much of an advantage.... we'll go back to shorter quicker, more athletic goaltenders.   I'd much rather watch a Grant Fuhr doing the splits than a Ben Bishop motionless on his knees hoping the puck hits him.   

[North Buffalo]

I remember back in the 70's and 80's, the larger goaltenders were not quick enough to be effective.    In the 90's and 00's, goalie equipment grew larger and larger and larger to the insanity it is today.     Larger equipment has allowed the taller goaltenders to compensate for their lack of quickness by simply covering more of the net, notably in the butterfly.      Butterfly technique wasn't popular in the 70's and 80's because if you went down on your knees, then entire top the net was open to shoot at.    So they made chest protectors, gloves, and blockers bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger to take away the top of the net.    This allowed taller goalies to flourish in the butterfly... which is where we're at today.   

 

Take away the larger chest protectors and shrink the other equipment back down and the taller goaltenders no longer have as much of an advantage.... we'll go back to shorter quicker, more athletic goaltenders.   I'd much rather watch a Grant Fuhr doing the splits than a Ben Bishop motionless on his knees hoping the puck hits him.

 

And the NHL knows this has studied ad nuseum and still done nothing... Make the equipment smaller and be done with it. This whole debate is such a stall tactic to actually taking some action. Next time someone complains about low goal scoring, the response should be the NHL knows what to do but wont, reduce pad size.

[TrueBlueGED]

I strongly disagree that large goalies are a result of large equipment such that they'd go the way of the enforcer if equipment sizes are reduced. For instance, giant slow goalies still suck (see: Lindback, Anders). The reason large goalies are so in vogue is they're large and athletic. Smaller equipment won't reverse that trend. Also: evolution. People are bigger, so at least some of this is just a reflection of the shifting population. Smaller equipment won't solve that either.

 

Edit: furthermore, the pad size argument tends to ignore defensive structure and overall improved defensive play, which are at least equally responsible for the decline in scoring. A true solution requires a multifaceted approach. There is no silver bullet.

Edited November 17, 2015 by TrueBlueGED

[LGR4GM]

Oh come on guys... his pads aren't that big...

Let's see you can shave 1-2" off the leg blockers width. probably 3-4" off their length.The wrist protector on that glove is a joke. His block could be a touch smaller. His Jersey is ridiculously big and clearly he doesn't need that much upper body padding.

[TrueBlueGED]

Is anyone arguing the goalie equipment shouldn't shrink? I think there's a pretty strong consensus that it should. The question is whether that alone is sufficient to fix scoring. I don't think it is.

[Ottosmagic13]

Make the trapezoid rule on steroids, don't let goalies touch the puck completely out of the crease. That should increase scoring because the ogre goalies will have to make up for the more open net because they can't cut off the angle as well. 

 

#jokingbutserious

[WildCard]

Or, we only let the goalies touch the puck when outside of the crease

[pi2000]

I strongly disagree that large goalies are a result of large equipment such that they'd go the way of the enforcer if equipment sizes are reduced. For instance, giant slow goalies still suck (see: Lindback, Anders). The reason large goalies are so in vogue is they're large and athletic. Smaller equipment won't reverse that trend. Also: evolution. People are bigger, so at least some of this is just a reflection of the shifting population. Smaller equipment won't solve that either.

 

Edit: furthermore, the pad size argument tends to ignore defensive structure and overall improved defensive play, which are at least equally responsible for the decline in scoring. A true solution requires a multifaceted approach. There is no silver bullet.

 

I disagree.    Large goalies are en vogue because larger upper body equipment means they can just take away angles in the butterfly position without having to move.    Taking away the large upper body equipment will force them to make  reactionary (instead of positional) saves in the butterfly position.  

 

That said, I don't expect all tall goalies to go away... there will be some who are athletic enough to make reactionary saves and continue to perform at a high level.     HOwever, I do expect the average height of goaltenders to come back down by a few inches to where it was in the mid-90s.      

 

Does all these mean scoring will go up?   Initially that would be the case, but as goaltenders evolve, it will even out.     It's a cycle of offense vs defense that all sports go through at some point.   RIght now goaltenders have the upper hand by a wide margin.  

Oh come on guys... his pads aren't that big...

Let's see you can shave 1-2" off the leg blockers width. probably 3-4" off their length.The wrist protector on that glove is a joke. His block could be a touch smaller. His Jersey is ridiculously big and clearly he doesn't need that much upper body padding.

 

 

Yep.   Look at how high the pads are above the knee.   When facing butterfly goalies as a youth in the 80's and 90's, we were taught to shoot high or five-hole on butterfly goalies.    They took away the five-hole with the overlapping pads above the knee, and then took away the top of the net with massive chest protectors and oversized gloves.     As such, the league has evolved into a game of getting the puck back to the point, screen the goalie and hope something finds the net.... as the primary way to score is by blocking the goalies vision instead of straight up beating him with an open shot.    Effective, but not very sexy.

[darksabre]

Lotsa people here who don't get hit by NHL caliber shots with regularity.

 

The extended top of the pad is there to stop the puck as much as it is to protect the top of the knee and thigh while down in the butterfly. I wear my pads with only a +1" riser and I constantly wish I had opted for a +2 or +3. 

 

And that big old wrist board is there to, you know, protect your dang wrist. There can be a sizable gap between the end of the pad on the forearm and the start of the glove depending on how the goaltender positioned. You can take that away from me over my cold dead broken body. 

[MattPie]

Lotsa people here who don't get hit by NHL caliber shots with regularity.

 

The extended top of the pad is there to stop the puck as much as it is to protect the top of the knee and thigh while down in the butterfly. I wear my pads with only a +1" riser and I constantly wish I had opted for a +2 or +3. 

 

And that big old wrist board is there to, you know, protect your dang wrist. There can be a sizable gap between the end of the pad on the forearm and the start of the glove depending on how the goaltender positioned. You can take that away from me over my cold dead broken body. 

 

I don't mind the blocker, that doesn't seem that out of place. What's with the sleeve above it being as wide as the blocker though?

[darksabre]

I don't mind the blocker, that doesn't seem that out of place. What's with the sleeve above it being as wide as the blocker though?

To stop you from breaking your arm.

 

The materials in goalie chest arms have gotten lighter but they've added a lot of size to keep them protective. While I find most chest arms far too bulky for the level I'm playing at, I don't blame the pros one bit.

 

You have to keep in mind when comparing old gear to new gear that goalies tried to avoid getting hit in the chest, legs, arms etc back in the day. With the advent of better equipment and the butterfly style, those limbs needed more protection. Gone are the days of trying to only get the glove, blocker, leg pads or stick on the puck. The whole body is in play now. The padding simply caught up.

[North Buffalo]

Lotsa people here who don't get hit by NHL caliber shots with regularity.

 

The extended top of the pad is there to stop the puck as much as it is to protect the top of the knee and thigh while down in the butterfly. I wear my pads with only a +1" riser and I constantly wish I had opted for a +2 or +3.

 

And that big old wrist board is there to, you know, protect your dang wrist. There can be a sizable gap between the end of the pad on the forearm and the start of the glove depending on how the goaltender positioned. You can take that away from me over my cold dead broken body.

 

I hear you but the board especially and the pads at that point on top dont need to be that wide or even part of the pads, but could be separate part of undergarment and of limited width. Edited November 17, 2015 by North Buffalo

[darksabre]

I hear you but the board especially and the pads at that point on top dont need to be that wide or even part of the pads, but could be separate part of undergarment and of limited width.

Flexibility is an issue though. You'll find that the bigger looser gear allows for better coverage without sacrificing flexibility or protective strength.

 

I'll continue to contend that I think goalie equipment as it is currently is the best for goalie protection and flexibility.

[North Buffalo]

Flexibility is an issue though. You'll find that the bigger looser gear allows for better coverage without sacrificing flexibility or protective strength.

I'll continue to contend that I think goalie equipment as it is currently is the best for goalie protection and flexibility.

??Why would we want better coverage if scoring is down. I am thinking less coverage unless you are talking about for your own protection. Imo cut pad width down to 8 inches wide, narrow the blocker to 8 inches too as well as catching glove. Ok then if length stays the same for protection of goalie. Its the amountof space combined with large goalies killing scoring.

[pi2000]

Flexibility is an issue though. You'll find that the bigger looser gear allows for better coverage without sacrificing flexibility or protective strength.

 

I'll continue to contend that I think goalie equipment as it is currently is the best for goalie protection and flexibility.

 

 

The wrist pad on the catching glove is 3-4 times the actual width of the goalies wrist.   The arm pads are the same, 3-4 times the width of the arm, and the chest protectors stick up to ear level.   That has nothing to do with protecting the goaltender.    I understand you need the equipment to be larger than the person wearing it so they have some flexibility, but this is just too much.   

[mjd1001]

This seems to be a topic that won't go away.

 

1.  Goalie equipment can still be reduced a bit. No need for bigger nets if you do that.

 

2.  As everyone seems to be saying CALL THE PENALTIES the way the rulebook states. Not just for the added powerplays, but to take away some of the stuff that clogs up the O-zone.

 

3.  I'd be open to hearing a rule about not allowing players to leave their skates to block a shot. What to block it? Do it standing up.  This one has some pretty big questions with it, so I'd like to see it tried in the AHL or preseason, but I'm intersted for sure.

 

4.  I heard recently the idea of not allowing the Defensive team to ice the puck when shorthanded.  I'm all for that.  If not pure icing, at least make them carry the puck past the blue line (out of the zone) before they slap it down the ice.

[woods-racer]

Things that have worked to make the game more fun have been to simplify the game.

 

The 2 line pass. The NHL just did a away with it. How much more enjoyable did just doing that make hockey?

 

Offside. Just do a way with it. Less stoppage and no reviews. Open the game up.

[darksabre]

The wrist pad on the catching glove is 3-4 times the actual width of the goalies wrist.   The arm pads are the same, 3-4 times the width of the arm, and the chest protectors stick up to ear level.   That has nothing to do with protecting the goaltender.    I understand you need the equipment to be larger than the person wearing it so they have some flexibility, but this is just too much.   

 

 

??Why would we want better coverage if scoring is down. I am thinking less coverage unless you are talking about for your own protection. Imo cut pad width down to 8 inches wide, narrow the blocker to 8 inches too as well as catching glove. Ok then if length stays the same for protection of goalie. Its the amountof space combined with large goalies killing scoring.

This is a battle I'm not going to win with you guys because short of making you put the gear on and play in it, there's no way I can explain why things are the way they are. 

[North Buffalo]

I understand from your perspective, but unless you think net size should be significantly increased this is the only alternative. I still play and have blocked a few slap shots in my day with not much equipment so going all game long i can understand your position. But there is a difference between protection and covering up the net with no holes. The current situation with pads is no longer safety but covering up holes which hurts the game imo.

[LGR4GM]

This seems to be a topic that won't go away.

 

1.  Goalie equipment can still be reduced a bit. No need for bigger nets if you do that.

 

2.  As everyone seems to be saying CALL THE PENALTIES the way the rulebook states. Not just for the added powerplays, but to take away some of the stuff that clogs up the O-zone.

 

3.  I'd be open to hearing a rule about not allowing players to leave their skates to block a shot. What to block it? Do it standing up.  This one has some pretty big questions with it, so I'd like to see it tried in the AHL or preseason, but I'm intersted for sure.

 

4.  I heard recently the idea of not allowing the Defensive team to ice the puck when shorthanded.  I'm all for that.  If not pure icing, at least make them carry the puck past the blue line (out of the zone) before they slap it down the ice.

#3

If your knee is on the ice while blocking a shot, penalty, done.

[spndnchz]

#3

If your knee is on the ice while blocking a shot, penalty, done.

 

Reviewable?

[LGR4GM]

Reviewable?

No. A nuance of the game.  If a ref sees it and calls it then win, if it is close and doesn't get called, oh well. We don't change rules everytime a hook doesn't get called. This way it would be safer because players aren't taking slap shot to the whatever and also it opens up scoring lanes.

[darksabre]

I understand from your perspective, but unless you think net size should be significantly increased this is the only alternative. I still play and have blocked a few slap shots in my day with not much equipment so going all game long i can understand your position. But there is a difference between protection and covering up the net with no holes. The current situation with pads is no longer safety but covering up holes which hurts the game imo.

We'll agree to disagree. I think there's much less covering of holes than you think.

 

I'm in favor of increasing the size of the nets.

[Taro T]

#3

If your knee is on the ice while blocking a shot, penalty, done.

  

Reviewable?

  

No. A nuance of the game.  If a ref sees it and calls it then win, if it is close and doesn't get called, oh well. We don't change rules everytime a hook doesn't get called. This way it would be safer because players aren't taking slap shot to the whatever and also it opens up scoring lanes.

Hmmm, what could the unintended consequences be of a rule making it illegal to block a shot if your knee (or other body part besides the foot (in a skate)) is on the ice? Hmmmmm. That is a tricky one.