NHL Scoring Problem

[dudacek]

I'm tired of the bigger ice surface argument persisting despite ample evidence that's not the case.

[nfreeman]

That's ok; the skaters have advantages now that they didn't have then.

 

Good call.

 

However, my primary concern is that changing goalie equipment size won't change how the game is played.   Sure there will be more goals per game, but does that mean the game gets more exciting to watch?   You're still going to have the same "get the puck back to the point, shoot it through a crowd and hope it finds the net" type of strategy.    To open up the flow of the game we need 90ft wide rinks (5ft wider), and maybe enforce illegal defenses (like basketball).

 

Also a good point.  Not sure what the solution is, but something significant is needed.

[Weave]

Good call.

 

 

Also a good point.  Not sure what the solution is, but something significant is needed.

 

If scoring does increase I think the way the game is played would change.  Leads would be less safe and it would change how both sides respond.

[mjd1001]

If scoring does increase I think the way the game is played would change.  Leads would be less safe and it would change how both sides respond.

I like what you are saying.

 

When people bring up ways to increase scoring, often times they are shot down because they won't lead to more 'end to end' action, and it may result in more 'cheap goals'.  

 

However, I am all for any and all goals...cheap or not.  What makes the game more exciting for me is knowing that a 2 goal lead means something..but not nearly as much as it does now.  If your team id down 3-1 now...there seems to be a 90% chance the game is over.  I think only 1 out of 8 or 10 times a team comes back from that level.  ANY increase in scoring makes those leads less safe.  I'd still rather have that 3-1 lead than not..but I want to know if I turn on a game and one team has a 2 goal lead...that it is still worth watching.

[pi2000]

I'm tired of the bigger ice surface argument persisting despite ample evidence that's not the case.

 

Olympic is too big at 200x100, that hurts offense.... even hybrid (200x92-95) is too big IMO, but adding an extra 5ft to make it 200x90 would help zone entries and power plays.   Give faster guys a little more room to skate around the defensemen, without creating too much open space for defensemen to clear the puck out of the zone.    Players are few inches bigger,  so make the rinks just a few feet wider, not 10-15 ft.

[dudacek]

Olympic is too big at 200x100, that hurts offense.... even hybrid (200x92-95) is too big IMO, but adding an extra 5ft to make it 200x90 would help zone entries and power plays.   Give faster guys a little more room to skate around the defensemen, without creating too much open space for defensemen to clear the puck out of the zone.    Players are few inches bigger,  so make the rinks just a few feet wider, not 10-15 ft.

Maybe. Theory seems sound.

But anything that pushes the puck further away from the net has a good chance of making things worse.

[rakish]

 

The thick blue line is NHL average team scoring per game.  The thick black line is average of each league (not every league is represented in each time period).  For me, the change in the black line demonstrates skill level and equipment.  The difference between the change in the blue line, and the change in the black line, represents how the NHL is calling the game.

 

The data for the NHL starts in 2005, then, the black line is very close to the blue line, and the NHL is fairly close to the median.  By 2015, the NHL is near the bottom of leagues as far as scoring goes.

Oh, each league's peak year is noted on the chart.  Note that there really isn't a relationship shown between ice rink size and team average goals per game.  SHL, KHL, Liiga, and Czech leagues all peak below the NHL peak.

Edited March 16, 2016 by rakish

[JJFIVEOH]

Not sure that chart is accurate because in 2005 there was a massive spike in NHL scoring, higher than any other season in 21 years by a large margin. 

[rakish]

well, I didn't go back to before 2005, so there wouldn't be a spike, no?

[LGR4GM]

So every league pretty much could use larger goals but NHL needs major help. I'd say 70% of the games are mediocre at this point. But scoring is only one probably and the end to end action is really taking a hit and that also makes games dull.

scoring problem.png

 

The thick blue line is NHL average team scoring per game. The thick black line is average of each league (not every league is represented in each time period). For me, the change in the black line demonstrates skill level and equipment. The difference between the change in the blue line, and the change in the black line, represents how the NHL is calling the game.

 

The data for the NHL starts in 2005, then, the black line is very close to the blue line, and the NHL is fairly close to the median. By 2015, the NHL is near the bottom of leagues as far as scoring goes.

 

Oh, each league's peak year is noted on the chart. Note that there really isn't a relationship shown between ice rink size and team average goals per game. SHL, KHL, Liiga, and Czech leagues all peak below the NHL peak.

[rakish]

So every league pretty much could use larger goals but NHL needs major help. I'd say 70% of the games are mediocre at this point. But scoring is only one probably and the end to end action is really taking a hit and that also makes games dull.

 

Yeah, if I was running it the AHL and ECHL would try new rules regularly to see what happens.  People like seeing goals, and for as many posts are hit, adding a few inches each way may lead to a lot more scoring.

 

I took from the chart that 18 and under leagues score more than adult leagues.  Scoring decreased everywhere 2005-2014, but not as much as the NHL's decrease, so NHL's decrease can be attributed to both skill and equipment, which happens everywhere, and how the game is called, which is unique to the NHL.

 

Hey MODO, do you read this?  The SHL looks like scoring has increased the  past 3 years, intentional? random?

[LGR4GM]

One thing that struck me last night was how on our 5v4 pp, the Canadiens lined up across their blue line and covered the entire zone entry. I think it was Risto with the puck and he had to flip it over them.  I suggest radically changing the game. Center ice is now the new offsides line. Once you hit center ice you can enter the zone. To clear teams can get it past their blue line but you just need to circle back out of their actual zone. So for instance defending team chips the puck out of their zone, like now you just need to tag up at the blue line. However once offensive team hits center ice you are free to enter the zone. Once everyone tags up in this scenario you can just plunge back in. Super Liger Hybrid Offsides.

[Weave]

One thing that struck me last night was how on our 5v4 pp, the Canadiens lined up across their blue line and covered the entire zone entry. I think it was Risto with the puck and he had to flip it over them.  I suggest radically changing the game. Center ice is now the new offsides line. Once you hit center ice you can enter the zone. To clear teams can get it past their blue line but you just need to circle back out of their actual zone. So for instance defending team chips the puck out of their zone, like now you just need to tag up at the blue line. However once offensive team hits center ice you are free to enter the zone. Once everyone tags up in this scenario you can just plunge back in. Super Liger Hybrid Offsides.

 

If you make the red line the point of offsides, teams on defense will simply line up at the red line instead.  We'd lose even more ice surface.

[MattPie]

One thing that struck me last night was how on our 5v4 pp, the Canadiens lined up across their blue line and covered the entire zone entry. I think it was Risto with the puck and he had to flip it over them.  I suggest radically changing the game. Center ice is now the new offsides line. Once you hit center ice you can enter the zone. To clear teams can get it past their blue line but you just need to circle back out of their actual zone. So for instance defending team chips the puck out of their zone, like now you just need to tag up at the blue line. However once offensive team hits center ice you are free to enter the zone. Once everyone tags up in this scenario you can just plunge back in. Super Liger Hybrid Offsides.

 

Interesting idea, although I think that would be someone (Hitchcock) would create a system where the non-possession team lines up across the center line, challenges, and only has to take a couple strides to fire the puck back into the opposing end. It's the trap with less risk of icing the puck.

[LGR4GM]

Interesting idea, although I think that would be someone (Hitchcock) would create a system where the non-possession team lines up across the center line, challenges, and only has to take a couple strides to fire the puck back into the opposing end. It's the trap with less risk of icing the puck.

But in this case you have from the red line to the other teams blue line to sit and wait. So if Eichel is sitting on the blue line, go ahead and line up across center, all Risto has to do his fire it into the corner, the 2nd that puck crosses center ice Eichel is free to enter the zone. 

[MattPie]

But in this case you have from the red line to the other teams blue line to sit and wait. So if Eichel is sitting on the blue line, go ahead and line up across center, all Risto has to do his fire it into the corner, the 2nd that puck crosses center ice Eichel is free to enter the zone. 

 

Oh, I got you now. I'm not sure that's hugely different than a current dump in, however. Eichel is skating towards the blue line, Risto crosses center and fires it in. Sounds like a play we see a dozen times per night.

[LGR4GM]

Oh, I got you now. I'm not sure that's hugely different than a current dump in, however. Eichel is skating towards the blue line, Risto crosses center and fires it in. Sounds like a play we see a dozen times per night.

But in this instance you don't have to wait for the puck to cross the blue line.

[MattPie]

But in this instance you don't have to wait for the puck to cross the blue line.

 

I'm not sure the travel time of a Risto slapper from center line to the blue line is that significant, but I'd certainly entertain the change to see what happens. Note that I'm talking about the play where the D slaps the puck in just as he crosses the center line. I could see some advantage if the possessing play holds longer than that. during 5 on 5, however, I'd think the defending team would drop a man back to cover Eichel and then line 4 up across the red line. The advantage to the defenders is the possessing player can't just fire the puck if he's not going to get to the red line, or it'll be icing.

 

I think calling interference would be easier to implement.

[That Aud Smell]

Super Liger Hybrid Offsides is confusing to me. I think.

 

Is the idea simply to have the center line be the new zone entry line - everything else the same?

Such that if the defending team sought to clear the zone, but only got the puck out over their own blue line, the offensive players could remain deep in the other team's zone?

[TrueBlueGED]

I'm not sure the travel time of a Risto slapper from center line to the blue line is that significant, but I'd certainly entertain the change to see what happens. Note that I'm talking about the play where the D slaps the puck in just as he crosses the center line. I could see some advantage if the possessing play holds longer than that. during 5 on 5, however, I'd think the defending team would drop a man back to cover Eichel and then line 4 up across the red line. The advantage to the defenders is the possessing player can't just fire the puck if he's not going to get to the red line, or it'll be icing.

 

I think calling interference would be easier to implement.

I think calling the penalties is the single hardest change to implement. It requires a full-scale culture change in the league (not just the league office, but at the team level as well) to the point where refs are held accountable for swallowing the whistles during the playoffs or arbitrarily at other times.

[dudacek]

Murray with some good stuff on larger goals, smaller goalie equipment and eliminating the red line.

 

http://d3efjls8gnbg8i.cloudfront.net/1268191/114160834/3-18-tim-murray-with-schopp-and-the-bulldog-114160834.mp3?rhihttphost=media.wgr550.com

 

Plus some draft stuff, some Bylsma stuff an assorted other nuggets.

Always a good interview.

[TrueBlueGED]

Murray with some good stuff on larger goals, smaller goalie equipment and eliminating the red line.

 

http://d3efjls8gnbg8i.cloudfront.net/1268191/114160834/3-18-tim-murray-with-schopp-and-the-bulldog-114160834.mp3?rhihttphost=media.wgr550.com

 

Plus some draft stuff, some Bylsma stuff an assorted other nuggets.

Always a good interview.

 

His position on scoring will never cease to infuriate me, but I continue to get the impression that he's a guy who "gets it" with respect to team building and evaluation.

[WildCard]

Murray with some good stuff on larger goals, smaller goalie equipment and eliminating the red line.

 

http://d3efjls8gnbg8i.cloudfront.net/1268191/114160834/3-18-tim-murray-with-schopp-and-the-bulldog-114160834.mp3?rhihttphost=media.wgr550.com

 

Plus some draft stuff, some Bylsma stuff an assorted other nuggets.

Always a good interview.

'There are two guys in the league who get to wear XL pads if we make changes. Anderson [Anaheim] and our guy here [Lehner]'

 

Hmmmm, interesting. 

What do you guys think of this solution?

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/this-radical-rule-change-would-increase-scoring-in-the-nhl/

[Eleven]

'There are two guys in the league who get to wear XL pads if we make changes. Anderson [Anaheim] and our guy here [Lehner]'

 

Hmmmm, interesting. 

What do you guys think of this solution?

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/this-radical-rule-change-would-increase-scoring-in-the-nhl/

 

Interesting.  Try it in the ECHL for a couple of seasons maybe.

[deluca67]

So every league pretty much could use larger goals but NHL needs major help. I'd say 70% of the games are mediocre at this point. But scoring is only one probably and the end to end action is really taking a hit and that also makes games dull.

70%? How many games do you watch? Seems like an arbitrary number. From the games I watch, compared to watching other sports, the NHL has no more or less "mediocre" games than basketball, football or baseball.  82 games each for 30 teams, they are not all going to be instant classics. 

 

I don't need scores to be 6-5 to enjoy a hockey game. I like that goals actually mean something and that goaltenders are now actual athletes. It makes the game stronger, iMO.